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The issue of sex and sin is a good one, and in this ad we present it as a simple, fun question for discussion.
As it happens I have preached on the church and sexuality. My main point was that the church does a really bad job of addressing the topic in ways that make anyone engage it. A distillation of that sermon can be found here: http://followingfrodo.blogspot.com/2005/09/sex-and-church.html
Sex isn''t a sin.
Abuse and manipulation are sins. So are condemnation and violence and pointing out the speck in your sibling''s eye before removing the log in your own.
What would Jesus Think?
Mmmmm whipped cream. Oh wait, okay Sorry for getting side tracked. Sex isn't sinful, adultery is, but that's sex with somebody other than your partner hetero or same sex. So then if sex is so sinful, why not make alcohol (beer, liquor), chocolate, cigarettes and fatty foods sinful. If the baptists, and pentecostals can out law sex, why don't we? because we're open minded.
I am married to a Pentecostal and the sex she provides is so sinfully exciting I must wonder why she hasn't heard that sex has been outlawed as FoolishKnight contends. I sure hope no one tells her. Please let me know what facts/situations give rise to the comment so that I can avoid situations where it might come to her attention.
"Mmmmm whipped cream. Oh wait, okay Sorry for getting side tracked."
Is out-of-wedlock sex a sin? I sure hope not. But that's not the problem with this ad. The problem is that someone in society needs to take sex seriously. If it won't be churches, who will it be?
The exclusive focus on making light of sex and its connection to sin leads to all sorts of problems with (mostly) men not taking (mostly) women seriously when it comes to sex. If sex is not a big deal, then why is such a big deal if you haven't obtained consent? Of course this is isn't a direct or necessary causation, nor does it shift responsibility from individuals to the general tone of the debate. But it's a consideration which modern churches ought to take to heart if they want to take seriously their responsibility to protect the vulnerable and ask people to think about the impact of their actions on their community.
What's the deal with the tag line?
The implication is that fun is equatable with sin. And that a certain level of fun becomes sin. Where does that come from? Sex is not sinful. God made it and he makes things to be good.
I don't think I'm offended as much as disappointed. Are we trying to communicate the idea that fun is sinful or that sex is sinful? Both seem to be implicit. I understand that there is a desire to be humourous in the ads, but is it worth miscommunicating at the cost of our integrity?
what would Jesus do?
FoolishKnight said, "Sex isn't sinful, adultery is"
Where do you get that adultery is a sin from?
Some definitions of adultry and where they are found
Exodus 20:14 & Deut 5:18 - Be faithful in marriage
Matt 5: 27& 28 - You know the commandment which says "Be faithful in marriage" But I tell you that you if you look at another woman and want her, you are already unfaithful with your thoughts.
Whoever's responsible for this ad should be fired, with extreme prejudice. The church spent 10 million dollars on THIS? What a waste of money that could have been put to good use. Ten million could have helped a lot of people.
k, while my criticism would hardly be as harsh as Blah's, I gotta say that this is my least favorite ad - I don't think a church talking about sex should be a joke - particularly in our society where it seems someone has told 15 year olds that it is cool to walk around barely dressed, and one of my friends changes sexual partners so fast I despair of keeping their names straight.
Sex causes quite a bit of misery and harm in our society - some of that misery and harm is in the uptightness and judgementalness of some religious people, and I guess this is what you are trying to counter, but I still don't like the ad.
Also, Kayla, I really don't get your post. Do you mean to say that you don't think adultery is sin? or that you have never heard of it being called sin before? I'd be happy to jump into that discussion but I"m not sure where you are coming from on that one.
There are some very good responses here; I'm impressed. I like the ad insofar as it generates exactly the type of discussion that is needed. Sex is not a sin. Sex between consenting adults is not a sin. The keywords are consenting adults. I don't care what gender they are, how many of them there are, what toys they use, etc. If they consent, and they are adults, it is not a sin.
Adultry may be a sin, in that it is indicated to be so in the bible, but if you read your bible you'll see a lot of things that are mentioned as sinful that, by today's standards, would be considered rediculous. I believe adultry is wrong only insofar as you are being unfaithful to the person you married and are supposed to love. If two married people consent to sex with other partners, who are consenting adults, then it is not a sin.
God as better things to do than worry about what we do when we are not hurting one another.
Any one who has read "the Book" knows that these things have to happen in order for Jesus's return. It is a little sad that the desired belifes proposed here will win based on popularity and not upon truth, an almost bulling of the mases. I do object and I am sad to be apart of this legacy left by this generation. Not just on this topic but on more of an attitude that has emmerged. We have chosen the filtering of issues through relativism than upon concrete biblical truth. We have faith in God but not His words. I believe in cars just not the brakes.
I realize I'll get jumped on for this,but I do believe sex is a sin. All sex, just because it's not about anything except physical pleasure and selfishness. That said, I think sex is a necessary evil for most of us, and I don't judge other people's sexual preferences -I honestly don't see why married heterosexual sex is less "sinful" than homosexual sex, for example. My understanding of the Bible (and I might be wrong), is that celibacy is the ideal to strive for. Yes, I know the human race would die out then, which is why I say sex is a necessary evil.
SEX BELONGS IN THE HOME!!!
Intersting discussion to be sure. It would seem to follow, from the last post, that donuts and ice-cream would be sinful as well. I don't understand that "it's fun therefore it's sin" arguement. Our bodies have certain sensations for certain reasons (hunger, fear, agony, arousal, etc). Whether one would believe they have evolved or were created it seems obvious that they are there for a reason.
As far as the adultery discussion is concerned. . . I believe our primary goal in life is to be good and kind to one another (again, irrelevant of belief). To that end adultery is wrong (spiritually or otherwise). So to, perhaps, is how I've chosen to spell it. Forgive, don't forget, love and be honest, show the respect that you would expect.
So many people, so many clueless.
Did anyone consider that there could actually be a correct answer and not just infinite opinions? If you really want to know, you need to ask God to open your mind to His will. Then you can read His word and hope to make sense of it.
These passages may help shed some light.
I am not exactly sure where people get the authority to classify things as a sin, or not a sin, or to say what God would or would not be concerned with. If we are talking about the Christian God here, then there are certain things that are deemed as wrong in the Bible. If you don't believe in God, that's one thing. However, if you are purporting to be a Christian and are not even bothering to read the Bible and find out what it says about things like sin...you are being ridiculous. You cannot label yourself as something when you deny its core tenats.
Secondly, as already addressed, this ad seems to insinuate that fun things always end up being sinful--has anyone ever read Song of Solomon (in the Bible) This is a beautiful erotic boot that describes the pleasure that two lovers find in eachother's bodies and sexual touch. It is important to note, that this is in the context of a marriage relationship and also between a man and a woman. However, when these two things are in harmony, it does not seem that God puts a stipulation on the amount of "fun" or pleasure we can recieve from our partner. For sure this is not a sin. Why would God create Adam and Eve as sexual beings and tell them to procreate if it was a "neccessary evil". People need to start reading the Bible and not just conjuring up random opinions based on who knows what.
Sex is a desire of the flesh, of that we know is wrong.
If we follow our desires of the flesh we are in big danger of hell.
I have never come across one verse where Christ told married people to have sex whenever they wanted without haveing a child as an end result.
Paul warned us if we marry be aware of troubles ahead.
Sex for PROCREATION..................Nothing more
It's about time this was discussed in public...I hope we discuss it a whole lot more in detail too! Is sex a sin? I certainly hope not! I think a healthy spiced up sex life with ones partner is a blessing! I hope to raise my kids with the same attitude!
For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
Where in the Bible are we taught that sex is "part of our sinful nature" or is only a "desire of the flesh". The first time my wife and I made love (it was after marriage) the intesity of the love we felt for each other was such that it overwhelmed any sensual desire. After over twenty years of marriage we are comfortable enough to enjoy both intense love and desire during sex. God instituted sex as an expression of spiritual, emotional (of the mind) and physical love. Sex only for procreation? That way of thinking truly reduces a wonderful blessing from God to the level of the animalistic.
You mean whip cream is a sin? What about carrots? My girlfriend likes carrots!
God's word tells us that fornicaiton - sex outside of marriage - is a sin. The whipped cream is just a converation starter.
As for sex within marriage, that's a good place to give it everything you've got. It's not the icing on the cake, it is the cake (Whipped cream optional).
Re: Linden16's questions. Reply: Sure, why not. It's not written anywhere that loving, consensual sex within marriage has to be limited to missionary position intercourse.
When it to begin to endager yourself, others, or your relationship with others.
Sex is a sin outside of marriage. Sex in marriage isn't a sin, its actually a good and beautiful thing. There are many scriptures that state sex outside of marriage is a sin, and its committing adultery. However sex inside of marriage is a beautiful thing, everything God made is beautiful. Sex is one of the things God made, but its a spiritual bond and physical bond between a married couple.
All I can say is this ad is quite distasteful, and a waste of time and money. Is this what the UC's $10mill is paying for? Not exactly a way to invite people into our church!
We all know that marital sex is not a sin, but if we're trying to draw people in to discuss any other kind of sex.....well, good luck with that one!
One Human Being
I often use ketchup during the sex act. It's FUN!
Sex is a dirty business - but someone's got to do it!
Let's quote the old testament for a minute.
"Thou shalt not commit adultery."
Also, sex would not be so pleasurable were it not intended to be. In the animal kingdom, sex is often a rare and painful occurrence driven by instinct. However, for some animals (including primates and dolphins, to which we humans often compare ourselves) sex is just FUN!! Both wild and captive animals have been observed "getting it on" just for fun (that is, too quickly/with "ineligible" partners to actually procreate).
I think as long as you're monogamous, have as much fun as you want. God gave you the parts, might as well use 'em to their full extent.
What would Jesus do?
As married people, would Christ have us to have sex whenever we wanted to or to have sex to conceive a child?
Does haveing sex not border on giving into lustfui desires of that we are not to do as Christians, for non Christians none of this sex business matters.
Hell is real my friends
A Question for door57
You say hell is real. How do you know that ? Can you confirm that ? Of all the people who have died can you confirm that any of them are there ?
If sex is a sin and just designed by God for procreation why did He make it feel soooooooo heavenly ? Was God trying to tempt us into sinning ?
I still think that as far as sin goes we are punished BY our sins not For them.
If one uses ones sexuality and people get hurt as is often the case in adultery then it certainly is a sin. One is actually punished by guilt or even shame in this lifetime. One can still come to Christ for forgiveness.
There are many ways that one can use their sexuality to indulge oneself while harming another. Then it is a sin and guilt and shame would arise as its own punishment. At least this is what would happen in one that has a conscience. Most people having sex in a mutual, loving way with a partner that is enjoying the heavenly feeling without being harmed. Sex is not love but is a fine expression of love. This cannot be a sin when no one is harmed. Guilt would only surface in this case if guilt is forced on someone with a long, self righteous, bible thumping diatribe. Churches did this for ages and the pews are empty today too.
Mutually consenting sex where nobody gets hurt is a fine example of the application of the Ethic of Reciprocity - Golden Rule.
Yup Hell is real- we make it ourselves when we take our free will to far outside of the boundaries set by God. Most of the suffering in my life has been when I let my shortcomings and defects of character rule my life. There has been weeping and gnashing of teeth here and now.
Having sex can be giving in to lustful desire. It can also be giving in to a desire to truly love your spouse. The physical union with someone you love and are bound to for life only increases the spiritual and emotional closeness of the relationship. Having sex simply to procreate is cold, empty and a use of each other simply to accomplish a goal rather than as an expression of your love. Sex is not sinful when God blesses the union and you love your spouse; but your intent (heart attitude) in having sex can diminish its beauty (even to the point where it becomes sinful). Remember God looks at the heart.
Hey, at least the UCC seems willing to discuss sex...you'll be old and grey if you wait for any sort of meaningful discussion on this topic at most main-line churches. And guess what? We need to talk about this sort of thing if we want religion to impact more than just our Sunday monrings. Sex, money, dependency, depression, all of these "elephants in the room" that we tend to avoid, must be confronted at some point.
Some of the posts so far don't think this is much of a topic for discussion - marriage is ok, as long as it's within a marriage, right? How 'bout masterbation, or anal/oral sex? Consentual S&M ok within marriage? Should wives be the aggressor in the bedroom? This can be a complicated topic - especially from a traditional Christian point of view, I believe.
Kudos to the UCC for at least giving participants a chance to discuss it!
Do not kill the messenger......
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
Did Christ tell you to have sex any time you wish?
Do not kill the Messenger.............
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
Having sex, is this not a Desire of the flesh?
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
Again, walking in the flesh......... "YOUR" desires?
For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do
I am glad to see that door57 is starting to see that sex is not simply for procreation. Desiring to love your spouse physically and to satisfy them, as opposed to satisfying your own fleshy desires is what it's all about. Spiritual, emotional and physical love for your mate. If your sole purpose is self satisfaction of fleshy desires you war against the spiritual unity God established when husband and wife become one flesh; but if you seek to lovingly join with your mate you strengthen the unity God wants in marriage. Please consider the words of Eph. 5:28-31 and stop focusing on lustful desire. Sex in and of itself does not have to be centered on lust, to do so perverts Gods intention in making a husband and wife one flesh.
Sex is not the problem. The problem is how we build a relationship which involves sex. Is it life-giving? Is it consensual? Is it mutual? Is it equitable.
One interesting addition to this thread might be how to put sexual excitement back into sex within marriage or a loving relationship...
Whether one is married or not is less an issue, in my view, than trying to keep the sex exciting and vigourous after heaven knows how many years of marriage or a loving, consensual relationship that is not defined by an 'I do.'
If a married couple have sex, what becomes of the mans seed if you plan not to have a baby?
When we plant a seed, are we not to look forward to a crop, or in this case a child?
Birds do it bee's do it even educated flea's do it"¦ let's do it"¦ let's fall in love"¦.
Get the point folks sex is about love, sex is the cornerstone of intimacy, sex is a blast, sex should be between consenting adults. And by the way I have fallen into sex, err I mean love a bunch of time with a bunch of people"¦ sometimes there were tasty food product in on the act other times there weren't. Bottom line, all had fun or at the very least were completely consenting and over the legal age. So mind your beeswax and let those who want to have sex have sex, the Church shouldn't moderate on this topic one way or the other, unless their saying :hey have fun and don't get hurt"¦" I am a catholic and I have a real problem with the RC Church's stance on the topic of sex, especially the premarital variety. Yah is our society over sexed and under educated.. probably"¦ has it ever been any different"¦ probably not. The United Church is trying to spark debate"¦ have fun"¦ do what feels right as long as no one gets hurt.
Could it not be satan himself saying.........."If it feels good, do it"
Mans freedom is not Gods Freedom
I believe that many people have made very important point regarding a persons privacy (though God always knows), and consent, age, love, etc. My beilief is that sex is meant originally to procreate between people who were committed to one another and loved eachother. Now that hardest part for me to figure out is where I justify because I believe it to be the 'right' thing to do , or if it's just because I want it to be the 'right' thing to do. As far as I'm concerned commitment and love are the two major ingredients. Marriage, gender, level of exploration, etc. are left up to the legally consenting individuals. Not all sex feels good (ie. rape, date rape, incest, too young, not in love, etc.), so if it feels TRULY good in the heart, then I believe the skies the limit with good feeling involving the body.
Man I hear you Satan is everywhere... and I'm not kidding... he's in the mid east causing trouble he's in Africa causing starvation and he's in the hearts and minds of the unfortunate everywhere. Where he doesn't need to be is in this conversation. Marginalize the liar. Yah it could be Satan whispering in your ear or it could be god whispering in your ear that, "hey man this feels bad", or "hey man this is ok." We all have a sense of what's right and wrong... If you weren't raised by wolves in the wilderness you probably have some moral compass, and you probably are lined up with god to some degree or another. What I'm getting at here, is this is deeply personal despite my glib light-hearted tone I think the Church should stop telling people what is ok in the bedroom. Like I said if it feels right, (truly right) then do it... Do it as often as you want... just make sure you feel ok with it. You quote me scripture about the pleasures of the fleash being bad and against Gods will and I'll give you 10 about the opposite.
Jesus was waaaay more interested in talking about social and economic justice than he was interested in talking about sex. I think it is kinda wierd how the church in the states has been so virulent about sex and homosexuality while living in a war-mongering, economically disparate country.
But since we're talking about sex, I think that sexual choices like adultery almost always hurt people or throw a toxin into the relationship no matter how parties may rationalize it. That's my test for sex, "Am I, or someone else, going to be harmed emotionally/physically? Is there an impairment (emotional or physical) in consent/judgement going on?, etc. My ability to answer those questions honestly to myself has increased a lot as I have matured. It has brought me to the place where, personally, for me, I think the best, safest, most fun sex is within a committed relationship/marriage. And to me, I think that has to do with God's will too - God does not like people to harm themselves or each other - and I think that translates into sadness for us, not Hell.
A lot of the harsher anti-sex stuff in the bible was written by Paul (Romans and Galatians) and even his harshness was in reaction to historical/cultural practices with minimal/no consent, like the use of temple prostitues, I think its really inaccurate to say God or Jesus is for or against something just cause it says so in one of Paul's letters.
Thank you door 57 for hitting the nail on the head. Satan is the "father of all lies" (note: not just "some" lies) and one of the biggest is the "if it feels good do it" lie. Not all good feelings are morally right, nor are all good feelings morally wrong. Satan tempts us to act imorally by lieing about the rightness of "good feelings" and he will also try to prevent the strengthening of moral relationships by lieing and saying there is wrong in "good feelings". Remember Satan attempted to mislead Jesus by quoting scripture. Scripture misunderstood, misapplied, or out of context has often been used to cause harm. God is the final arbiter of what His word says and that is why we must seek His wisdom to understand it.
I believe George Michael said it best when he said:
"Sex is natural
Sex is good
Not everybody does it
But everybody should"
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