I would like to move this argument (theist/atheist) to a different one: materialism vs idealism.
As a fact, Quantum Physics striped reality of materialism. It is not possible to formulate the laws (of quantum theory) in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness. What that says to any of you about reality, I don't know, but I’m an agnostic idealist.
Quotes:
"An independent reality, in the ordinary physical sense, can neither be ascribed to the phenomena nor to the agencies of observation." Niels Bohr
"If one wants to give an accurate description of the elementary particle—and here the emphasis is on the word "accurate"—the only thing which can be written down as description is a probability function. But then one sees that not even the quality of being...belongs to what is described" Werner Heisenberg
"Observations not only disturb what is to be measured, they produce it." Pascual Jordan
"The doctrine that the world is made up of objects whose existence is independent of human consciousness turns out to be in conflict with quantum mechanics and with facts established by experiment." Bernard d'Espagnat
With the new high energy Large Hadron Collider (LHC) it is a matter of years until quantum physics will have irrefutable proof that materialism is only a projection of consciousness. At that point responsibility for your surrounding reality will be placed squarely and personally on everyone's personal lap. To me that wil prove to be a shock for both theists and atheists.
If reality is ultimately a product of the mind, but not and illusion where does that leave us?
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Comments
WaterBuoy
Now that is a projection of
Posted on: 07/17/2009 07:38
Now that is a projection of d' light in a dark field ... for some motivation had to occur before anyone would like to contemplate non matter ... then is that just the dark power that pushes light out into reality? Does that sound like the beginnings of the book of chaos?
Oh ... the final battle (beginning or end of the other side of the story) of dark and light ... conclusion of the story? I wouldn't bet upon it as both motive and the light of the situation are elusive demons or angels. I haven't figured which is which from the proper side of the memebrea'n ... the old Bohr giggles and the sow in continues to eat it up. Someday m'n will accept the metaphysical, or is that ante matter ... an allegorical word punched right through with holes of misunderstood gapes that doth rot ... they'll change in the spin of nothing!
I am a spiritual antagonist ... if you stir ID something comes out of the pool ... otherwise humans despise share'n rues ... they're tight lipped until you threaten grounds that never were!
Ergo Ratio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Posted on: 07/19/2009 20:44
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_decoherence
Understand that "observation" is not itself what "collapses the wave function" of a particle; the phenomenon is called decoherence. No consciousness is necessary. See link above.
WaterBuoy
Could a fix'd sort observe
Posted on: 07/20/2009 07:54
Could a fix'd sort observe such an emotive band, or would they have to move upon expansive space? Such difficulties for isle land spacies!
livinginthefutu...
The Upper Force is in total
Posted on: 07/21/2009 22:49
The Upper Force is in total rest. There are no changes in it. Thats how we can define it as a law.
All the changes happen in the observer.