Ninjafaery, I don't know if I much to say. But I'll say what I've got.

Not to be offencive, but I thought to myself the other day how humorous it would be if, say, Bolt were just a young child being child like. Then I realized, no one ever "matures." Looking at all of existance and eternity, we are all still babies compared to our God in heaven and those who have joined him. Nobody on this Earth can say they're mature enough to know everything about what they're talking about. And, think about it, do you remember the arguements you got in when you were a kid?

Also, all society needs is time. Not to put a downer on it for all of you oldies on here, I think that homophobia will all but die out with the presently older generation. I see such hope in my friends and peers, I know they will bring about the change.

Ninja, thanks for the invite to check out your blog.  I'm not feeling up to participating at the momen because, quite frankly, I'm quite taken aback by the assessment of some "esteemed" member of WC that much of the particular conversation I have been involved in recently here is "nothing but noise".  So, I don't think I'm in a good place right now to talk about this question.  Though I think it's a very good one...

So, cheers for now.  Maybe at some other point...  I definitely have thought about this and would like to contribute...

Silentbutpretty,

Lots of meat here :3

In order to be for social justice, people have to be full of their own ego.

This is the paradox:

they have to realise that the concepts that they hold dear, that they want to promote, have as much existence as a rainbow, are created and maintained by them...and yet still be willing to promote them.

(but because we WCers live in a culture that doesn't teach us the roles we have in our concepts and meaning in general, we become intimidated by our worldviews, "hypnotised" by them, and relatively powerless to realise how much control and agency we do really have)

Freedom of speech means not yelling fire in a crowded theatre ;3

This one sentence could be it's own Thread :3

A good case could be made for that statement. This I get from Howard Rheingold, an Internet grognard, of the Internet being a form of Wild West, with the first people being the Explorers, when there are no rules. Then come the Settlers, who are more conservative, and they need more structure. Then come the Carpetbaggers, those who make a living off of the Settlers. Remember, this is only a model and not to be taken as literal truth. Each of these people have different points of view, from which they are the most comfortable with, which can equal "being right". So a Settler could think that Honorable Computing is a Good Thing but the Explorers would think that it is the biggest EVIL.

And I think that the Internet is another of the USA's great sucesses, globalizing their whole notion of "you don't gotta love your neighbour's lifestyle to be able to live with them".

And there are standards...they are standards of politeness and are voluntary. One of the roles of an Administrator, I think, should be to, when the site is first launched, to take a big role in establishing what the 'rules of the land' are...and then to disappear into the woodwork, like a kind of benevolent G_d.

Just take a look at your average child at play. In there lies great wisdom.

This is just what I can think of for now.

Just a self-writing poem,
Inannawhimsey

sometimes, before they carry on, the child who got whacked finds a way to do some whacking of their own...  feelings of humiliation and disempowerment flood in if the whackee doesn't get a chance to whack... and the whacker gets a sense of glee/power at having "won"... 

That's when a parent or adult steps in.  Or should they not?  My personal feeling is that the momentary power imbalance needs to be addressed, brought back to even level... I would say, no, whacking is not a good way to resolve a disagreement.  Whacking hurts people.  Whacking makes people feel bad.  But maybe that's too reactionary.  I don't know.

Silentbutpretty,

HA! The non-attachment of childlike violence :3

Another thing I adore aboot children is that they don't play adult political games. They just ARE. Pure existence.

So, more on your question "So what would that loving reponse look like?"

I think it would take vulnerability, a realisation of the humanity & reality of both parties, non-attachment, a sense of humour (still being able to be serious but never solemn), patience, and a realization of both party's role in the existence of the relationship. I have seen lots of examples of loving responses -- they are possible :3 One doesn't have to be a saint to do it...but it is a skill, I think.

Pilgrim's Progress,
 

I'd even go farther than this to say that all Believers in a G_d have to take responsibility for their belief, because all the concepts that surround their G_d is created by them (in response to something else, sure);
everything that arises from those beliefs are their responsibility. This will give them more power over what arises from their belief.
 

Then it becomes a 'personal taste' thing or a morality thing, which is unique to the individual. So, for example, not everyone is going to believe in Sin (and everything that arises from that). Not everyone is going to have who they sleep with to be an integral part of themselves. And so forth.

It is certainly an exciting time to be alive -- when Believers find out they can't hide behind their beliefs any more. Then those Authorities who are actually trying to hurt people (like Phelps, etc) will be less powerful.
 

It is certainly an exciting time to be alive during the death throes of that Liberal philosophy, Political Correctness. Arm people with the ability to 'debug' and grok themselves and they will be like G_desses and G_ds.

It is certainly an exciting time to be alive. I look forward to the vast changes that are happening in the Religions in this tiny part of the world...

I guess part of the challenge of a society is to teach people how to be Responsible without always giving up that responsibility to the various Authorities we build: "I'm too tired" or "G_d made me do it" or "Everyone else does it" or "It is just the way things are" or "My parents beat me".

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

ps Heck, I'd be SO THERE if Parliament got rid of the icky Hate Crimes lazyslation and instigated a Love Force, where we'd be armed with squirt guns full of E laced with DMSO and Forced Reincarnation Chambers for the really hard cases *waggles eyebrows*

Ninjafaery, love the new avatar.

The utter lack of moderation on this site has me so completely frustrated I feel like I could scream.  I've never seen anything like it.  A forum doesn't have to be the "wild west", in fact most forums make the rules very very clear and threads are locked when it becomes obvious that they are just running around in circles.  One can still view the thread but no one can post to it.  I really think that we have just given intolerant people soap box to stand on here.  They use polite language, but the attitude that eminates from them is no different than the people who hold up signs saying "god hates fags".

When I first came out to my mother as a late teen about being transgendered, she told me that my feelings were an insult against god.  I am still frightened of my own feelings because of that.  After reading enough of BB's and IB's crap, I actually became an athiest for awhile (not that that is a bad thing, it just isn't for me).  I still don't trust God and I fear myself.

Lately I've been feeling like the UCCan's whole 'affirming' stance is just a bunch of lip service for PR.   Sure, there are a couple of churches that are open, but I would say that the majority, at least in my neck of the woods, are not in any way, shape or form.  The church I attend is far from it and it certianly doesn't help when I'm trying to sort my feelings out.