GordW's picture

GordW

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Palms or PAssion???????

MArch 28 is the Sunday before Easter.

 

Traditionally this is called Palm Sunday, the day when we remember Jesus' triumphal entry into JErusalem for PAssover.  ANd then there was an assumption that people would atend other worship events during the week -- primarily on Thursday and Friday -- to hear the rest of the story.

 

However people are now not doing that.  And so there has been, over the last 20 years or more, a movement to calling this Passion Sunday.  Then we tell the whole Passion story, usually without much interpretation or sermonizing, to prepare folks for the Easter event.  OTherwise, so the logic goes we miss the power of Easter.  What does Sunday mean if we don't remember Friday?

 

What will you do this SUnday? Celebrate and reflect on a parade or tell the story of darkness falling?

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RichardBott's picture

RichardBott

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We'll be doing palms... but

We'll be doing palms... but that's only because this congregation has a long-standing tradition of walking through Holy Week, so we can take the time to move through it.

 

Christ's peace - r

redbaron338's picture

redbaron338

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We will try to cover both. 

We will try to cover both.  The opening is a celebration; about halfway thru we'll become a bit more somber and reflecctive.  At least this is what I have done different places in  the past.  If it doesn't work so well here, well, next year we'll try somwtging different.

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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I usually plunk myself in the

I usually plunk myself in the "I" of the storm.

Beloved's picture

Beloved

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I believe in our church that

I believe in our church that this Palm Sunday will be a celebration.  I know we will have palms and there is some indication that there will be some kind of interactive opportunities, especially for the children.  I don't know if  this means a parade or what.

 

We've always celebrated Palm Sunday as the triumphal entry and don't focus on the passion or the rest of the week at this service.  That's because we do have a Maundy Thursday service and a Good Friday service.  I believe this year our Maundy Thursday service starts with a finger food feast in our multipurpose room (communion), then we will enter into the Garden of Gethsemane in our foyer, and then go into the Sanctuary for the service.

 

Our Good Friday service is at 7:00 p.m. and will probably be more on the solemn reflective side.  I guess this because the minister announced on Sunday that the Palm Sunday, Maundy Thursday, and Easter Sunday would be services geared for the children (we are having 4 babies baptised on Easter Sunday), but that Good Friday would be more of a solemn service.

 

Note:  We generally do not have that many baptisms - we are currently without minister personnel and have been so for some time - we currently have a minister who is with us for a short time in a term ministry and so is doing baptism as we haven't had one for a long time.

 

RevMatt's picture

RevMatt

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Palms.  I am vehemently

Palms.  I am vehemently opposed to Passion on this Sunday.  That belongs later in the week.  I take a pretty relaxed approach to most things, as you know, but if you can't be bothered to set aside time for Good Friday, you're missing a vital part of the story, and that is your loss.  I'm not going to pander to the lowest common denominator and eradicate the Palm part of the story for the sake of people who don't want to get up on their day off.

 

If Good Friday were not a holiday, I would be much more open to compromise.

seeler's picture

seeler

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There were quite a few

There were quite a few families in the church I previous attended - where I volunteered in Christian Development.  We worked together with the Worship committee on this one.

 

We would start off with the palm parade of children, youth and the young at heart, marching around the sanctuary waving palms - then the usual opening - call to worship, hymn, prayer, children's time (retelling the story of Palm Sunday) then the smaller children would continue to wave palms while they went out for Sunday School, and the older classes would remain for the scripture readings which some years reinacted a walk through Holy Week, beginning the Last Supper, the scene in the garden, Jesus arrest, the trial(s), and the crucifixion.  Moving from Palm to Passion.  The closing might remind people of the Maundy Thursday and Good Friday services, and the celebrations of Joy on Easter morning. 

 

GordW's picture

GordW

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RevMatt wrote: Palms.  I am

RevMatt wrote:

Palms.  I am vehemently opposed to Passion on this Sunday.  That belongs later in the week.  I take a pretty relaxed approach to most things, as you know, but if you can't be bothered to set aside time for Good Friday, you're missing a vital part of the story, and that is your loss.  I'm not going to pander to the lowest common denominator and eradicate the Palm part of the story for the sake of people who don't want to get up on their day off.

 

If Good Friday were not a holiday, I would be much more open to compromise.

 

Which brings up a related though separate question.  WHy should Good Friday be a stat holiday?

crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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I agree Matt. We offer the

I agree Matt. We offer the services and it is everyone'sdecision if they will come. Why compromise?

GordW's picture

GordW

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Do we maybe need to push the

Do we maybe need to push the issue more though CH.

 

We live in a culture that wants to deny the hard realities.  That want's to move from celebration to celebration and not name the darkness.  Since resurrection faith is meaningless without those things we maybe need to push people to acknowledge they exist.

 

I do Palms but talk about the shadow behind the parade.  ANd I start the Easter service with a "how did we get here" piece that sketches out the story to this point

RevJamesMurray's picture

RevJamesMurray

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In Quebec, the employer has a

In Quebec, the employer has a choice of giving only one of Good Friday or Easter Monday as a holiday. So many people did not get Good Friday as a holiday. We chose to hold our  Good Friday service in the evening as a result.

Here in my current parish, we stay with the Palm Sunday hymn. Only the last hymn begins to point towards what is to come. This year we close the Palm Sunday service with "Go to dark Gethsemane".

Panentheism's picture

Panentheism

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I agree Matt -however I am

I agree Matt -however I am stuck without a good friday service so my sermon is palms and crosses connecting the political implication of both.

Beloved's picture

Beloved

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For several years now we have

For several years now we have purchased real palms from our local florist (for several years the Sunday School had fake plastic ones).  One Palm Sunday, in the re-enactment of the triumphal entry into Jerusalem the minister leading the service had some of the people lay down the palms on the aisle and as we walked out we walked over the palms.  I guess from people stepping on them a fragment aroma drifted up out of the palms and hung in the air.  I never knew palms to have a fragrance before this happened.

 

crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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A woman I know is alergic to

A woman I know is alergic to the aroma of the palms and asked me the Sunday before Palm Sunday if I was going to wash all the palms before using     . If not she couldn't come. Sorry, not my job although I sympathized with her.

 

I always asked when buying the palms " where are they coming from and are the labourers getting fair wage?" People at the Bible place that sold them was astounded at the question.

 

They just wanted to sell.

MC jae's picture

MC jae

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GordW wrote: What will you do

GordW wrote:

What will you do this SUnday? Celebrate and reflect on a parade or tell the story of darkness falling?

 

To tell you the truth, Gord, I don't really think our church has anything special planned. In other years the choir (led by me) has sung "The Palms" but this year there is no choir as our pianist has been away having a surgery done and then recovering from it. The Sunday School kids may do something, make crosses out of palm branches or something. I see the local Islington United Church is observing "Palms/Passion Sunday"

RAN's picture

RAN

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In my experience, the number

In my experience, the number of people who attend a Good Friday service is less than half (maybe less than one third) of the number who attend on the Sunday before Easter.

 

My memory might be letting me down, but I don't remember ever celebrating the Sunday before Easter as Passion Sunday.

 

In recent years I have been attending Good Friday services regularly. I'm sorry I didn't start the habit sooner, because now it seems to misrepresent the entire season to go from the happy celebration of Palm Sunday directly to the even happier celebration of Easter.

 

Can it be that a significant portion of people who attend church never hear the story of Jesus' death?

RevMatt's picture

RevMatt

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Yes, that is the case, RAN. 

Yes, that is the case, RAN.   Which is one of the strong arguments in favour of having a combined Palm/Passion service.  But I believe the costs of that outweigh the benefits of those who are not willing to take the story seriously (again, I would feel differently in a province where it the day is not a holiday).

crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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It is like someone reading a

It is like someone reading a book - . reading the first chapters to get the characters and then reading the last chapter to get the ending and reading nothing in between.

spiritbear's picture

spiritbear

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RAN wrote: "Can it be that a

RAN wrote: "Can it be that a significant portion of people who attend church never hear the story of Jesus' death?"  I think most of them have heard the story (several times). But two thousand years later, we're still debating what that death means.  And how we respond to that death.  So perhaps part of this discussion needs to be 'what is the meaning we take from this story, and how is it to affect our lives?'  We're great on repeating the story but connecting the dots is considerably harder.  Of course this opens a Pandora's box of differing interpretations, doesn't it? But doesn't worship need to be more than just going through the motions?  So regardless of when the Passion service is held, what do you want congregants to take away with them?

GordW's picture

GordW

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spiritbear, I actually think

spiritbear,

I actually think many people have not heard teh PAssion story as told in any one Gospel.  They have heard a version told but not actually heard it read as written.  As with Christmas, the Passion story as told in books and movies and paraphrases in worship tends to conflate details from different GOspels (all those services with teh "7 Words from the Cross" jump to mind) as if they were all the same story.  OF course they are and they aren't the same story.

seeler's picture

seeler

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Headlines:  Next week see

Headlines:  Next week see "Bible Study - John 18 - 19" for the Passion story as told by the writers of John.

 

kaythecurler's picture

kaythecurler

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I've heard the story.  I

I've heard the story.  I don't know what it means.  Friends who self identify as Christian tell me they ignore the gloomy bits of their religion - things lke Good Friday and bits that are equally hard to understand in the world as we know it. 

 

 

GordW's picture

GordW

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kay, the faith story, imho,

kay,

the faith story, imho, makes absolutely no sense without the "gloomy bits".  ANd it also seems to have less in common with real life if we only talk about the glory and not the gloom.

Tiger Lily's picture

Tiger Lily

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Our church has a Palm Sunday

Our church has a Palm Sunday service and a Maundy Thursday service.  We're a small church and not too many people come out for Maundy Thursday.  And then 5 area churches take turns hosting the Good Friday service each year because it isn't well attended within any one church.  We're not all the same kind of church and even within the UCC churches we vary from more conservative to liberal so it's interesting to see how the service is done each year. 

Tabitha's picture

Tabitha

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I actually haven't attended a

I actually haven't attended a good friday service fow a few years. When my kids were young it wasn't appropriate-too adult oriented and too gloomy and sad,

We do regularly attend a seder supper on Thurs and a Maundy Thursday service.

Prior to kids i always attended Good friday.

RevMatt's picture

RevMatt

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Kids need the whole story,

Kids need the whole story, too.  Including the sad bits.

seeler's picture

seeler

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I always took my kids to the

I always took my kids to the Maundy Thursday service and the Good Friday service.  My granddaughter was in an infant carseat the first time I carried her in and sat her down on the floor beside me - few people knew she was there.  As she grew older she took a more active part in the seder meal, and ask penetrating questions that made me think about what I believed on the way home from the Good Friday services. 

 

I explained that although Good Friday was a sad time, Easter was a time of joy and celebration.

 

kaythecurler's picture

kaythecurler

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Your words make sense Gord -

Your words make sense Gord - life IS both gloomy and joyful.  I don't understand the people who try to pretend that sad things don't exist.  Neither do I nderstand why people base there acknowledgement of the reality of life on the stories Jesus.

Tabitha's picture

Tabitha

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We each make choices for our

We each make choices for our own reasons.

My kids have had plenty of gloomy bits in life.

Thye have been at many funerals of realtives and friends. The 2 oldest remember the still birth of their brother. The youngest was born after.

When the kids were elemntary school age Good Friday was an evening service starting in light and ending in silence and dark. it started just before there bedtime and ended after-and if I recall-other families did not bring kids-it was very adult oriented.

We did attend a Sat vigil bonfire (different church) for a few years. Kids activities, bonfire, sparklers and then the kids went home and there was an adult vigil.

At my current church teens usually stay up all night in Vigil Sat. until easter sunrise service.

Anyhow not attending Good Friday service has worked for my kids. As teens they still attend church most sundays.

 

Pinga's picture

Pinga

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We will have Palm Sunday

We will have Palm Sunday tomorrow.

We normally have a Maundy Thursday service; however, this year it appears it will be cancelled due to extenuating circumstances...

 

We have a joint Good Friday service with four United Churches, ...each taking turns hosting.  A huge wooden cross is walked from the church that held it last year, to the church that is holding it this year (we had last year, and a church two blocks away is having it this year, so a very short walk!). 

 

Easter Sunday will be full of music.  We used to have a sunrise service; however, haven't had one for a few years.

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