April 15th, PETA sent this letter offering to buy space on Westboro United Church in Ottawa, which is apparently up for sale. What do you think?
There's also a promotional picture up:

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Comments
DKS
There are a huge number of
Posted on: 04/19/2010 08:44
There are a huge number of issues here. This is a business transaction, not a charity to charity transaction (PETA isn't a reistered charity or non-profit in Canada, as far as I can discover). Then there is the question of it being appropriate to the United Church's core values, as well as the CRA regulations as a charity. Finally, is it consistent with the mission of the larger church? I would want to hear from our sisters and brothers in Newfoundland and Labrador Conference before any decision was made... would seloing this space as a commercial transaction be supportive of them and their faith community?
RevJamesMurray
Nothing like getting some
Posted on: 04/19/2010 12:58
Nothing like getting some free publicity which is exactly what they wanted.
joejack
Maybe they want to set up a
Posted on: 04/19/2010 13:36
Maybe they want to set up a 'safe house' for seals during the hunt??? I don't know about the United Church, but some churches have a de-consecration type service for buildings, etc. (there goes my English again!). Why would PETA want to buy space in an old church building? There must be other properties that are more energy efficient and environmentally friendly.
seeler
I don't think that the UCC
Posted on: 04/19/2010 16:57
I don't think that the UCC should have anything to do with an organization that is trying to destroy the seal harvest in Canada.
Alex
I think the UCC should not
Posted on: 04/19/2010 17:15
I think the UCC should not sell the property. Instead they should convert it and make it the new HQ.
PETA is just another money making organisations that pretends to be a charity. The only good they do is for there own executives who live high on the hog.
However to suggest to this church that they do or do not do anything, brings us into what is often called by higher ups in the church like DKS as "Empire"
After all we all know how those great empire builders, Newfoundland fishermen are forcing their morality on the UCC as a whole.
Alex
Alternatively we could sell
Posted on: 04/19/2010 17:19
Alternatively we could sell the space to fishermen, who could post a sign saying God Loves all creation, including fishers,
efficient_cause
PETA is pretty nutty, and
Posted on: 04/19/2010 17:30
PETA is pretty nutty, and seemingly more fond of attention for bizarre stunts (most of which this banner would not even begin to approach in oddness).
There are many reasons not to do this, but the simple fact that it is PETA is a big one.
jesouhaite777
I hope they mark the opening
Posted on: 04/19/2010 17:56
I hope they mark the opening of their new digs with a neighbourhood BBQ
GordW
It seems like the sort of
Posted on: 04/19/2010 18:01
It seems like the sort of thing that the congregation is not permitted to do without Presbytery approval--the United Church of Canada owns the property after all.
Alex
It's a strange thing that
Posted on: 04/19/2010 18:18
It's a strange thing that the systems finds it more important to protect property rather than the poor and the sick.
Ironically Westboro United was one of the churches that threatened to leave in 1988 after the decision to allow other churches to hire LGBT people. They did not, because it meant they would have lost there building.
Wouldn't it have been better to have let them leave. Instead they stayed in the UCC and became a church that acted hatefully towards the people in the community. Defaming Christ, and John Knox by telling people living in our neighbourhood that they were too unacceptable to belong to their UCC church.
RevJamesMurray
There is nothing stopping a
Posted on: 04/19/2010 18:38
There is nothing stopping a congregation from renting space out for a banner.
Remember this is PETA's publicity stunt here. It's really got nothing to do with the church.
DKS
Alex wrote: Ironically
Posted on: 04/19/2010 19:26
Ironically Westboro United was one of the churches that threatened to leave in 1988 after the decision to allow other churches to hire LGBT people.
Alex, I don't know where you sourced that, but it sure isn't the 1988 MMHS decision by General Council.
This is part of what we said:
4a. All members of the Church are eligible to be considered for Ordered Ministry.
http://www.glaird.com/MMHS%20Aug%2024%201988.pdf
Alex
Yes that was what was passed.
Posted on: 04/19/2010 20:45
Yes that was what was passed. However it did not apply to local congregations in Ottawa. The UCCs in Ottawa are much more conservative than in the rest of the country.
For a long time afterwards no single men or women were hired as staff, in case they were gay.
I was member of a UCC in the Ottawa area until 1988. So while the local churches adopted the motions passed at GC they did not apply them.
I was actually a member of a board, and spoke at other churches and at the Ottawa Montreal conference so I am not sourcing it from anything other than what happened to me.
To appease people, it was stated during the process that no one would be forced to hire LGBT people. That is why one of the reasons I was shocked when the congregations in Ottawa voted like they did.
The more "liberal" churches actually had congregational votes prior to the GC. However the vote was staged in a way to make it more acceptable and likely to pass. We were asked in our congregations to vote on point 3 and not 4. It failed to pass in all but one church., where only 55% agreed. (Which was one of the churches I spoke at) I found it ironic, however because it was not wheelchair accessible, My partner could not always climb the stairs,( he had already been sick for 2 years with AIDS) so we were not exactly welcomed there either.
Also as an 26 year old who was HIV+ and living with high functioning autism I was never welcome by anyone after 1988, including the people in Affirm who asked me to speak prior to 1988. It was odd, as someone who was queer in more than the sense of being gay, I was uniquely unqualified to speak out, but other than Bill Siskay, I was the only openly gay man in the church in Ottawa.
However what really kept congregations from leaving was the fact that the property is actually owned by the central church.
Reality is what it is.
i still believe that after holding votes to exclude LGBT, it takes more than a church just accepting the resolutions from GC to make it welcoming. None even tried to encourage me to stay or join another congregation. In fact they added other barriers, after 1988 that affected those who were HIV+, or being different in other ways.
Having been brought up with UCC values I believed one should not impose oneself, where one is not welcomed. Perhaps that is wrong, especially in light of the fact that the votes were stacked by people over 60, and hardly anyone under 30 voted.
DKS
Alex wrote: Yes that was what
Posted on: 04/19/2010 20:55
Yes that was what was passed. However it did not apply to local congregations in Ottawa.
Sorry, that's not true. It applied to every single conference, presbytery and congregation in the United Church of Canada, no matter what they thought.
Yes, I know. My family were founders of First Congregational Church in Ottawa.
That was true in many parts of hte United Church.
In pre-human rights days, that was true.
But that statement you made is not reality, in toto. It is your experience. But to parachute that on to the whole United Church is surprising.
I don't disagree with you. The congregation I served had a vote to not hire any gay pr lesbian staff. Our organist and I objected strongly, but as non-voters, we made our point and realized that time would deal with the matter. As it has.