seeler
Trusts and bequests
Posted on: 09/03/2010 19:27
So you have been quite successful in your lifetime - your children are well established - and you would like to make a gift to your local church. A thousand, $10,000, $100,000? And how do you want this used? Perhaps a nice stained-glass window? Or perhaps an investment to provide scholarships for worthy young people entering the ministry? Or to restore the cemetery and provide perpetual care? (Maybe you've already established a separate fund for outreach in the community and around the world.)
Or do you simply give it to the church and let the powers that be decide how best to use it?
It seems to me that there are churches with funds available for stained-glass windows that really need a new roof, or indoor plumbing. And churches with a considerable amount in investments that cannot meet their day to day expenses.
Would it be prudent to include a clause that, regardless of the stated intention of the gift, the income can be used wherever the church board sees fit, and if necessary they can encroach upon the capital for unforseen expenses even if it is just paying salaries and the bills during a recession.
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crazyheart
A woman I know left 50 thou
Posted on: 09/03/2010 21:37
A woman I know left 50 thou to the church and 50 thou to the church to be used for mission. Oy - vey - the arguments about what was mission. This was about 10 years ago and the church is still sitting on most of the money in the bank.100,000 dollars could have done a lot of ministry and mission.
DKS
We get this kind of letter
Posted on: 09/03/2010 21:52
We get this kind of letter several times a year. It comes from a lawyer and it tells us of a bequest. The largest I have seen was $100,000 and the least $1,000. A colleague has seen letters for $1,00,000 or more.
Anyone planning to leave such a bequest would be advised to talk to a lawyer and get their advice. From the donee's perspective, the best way is the least directive. I'm not fond of stained glass window bequests. The ones we find easiest to manage are "The sum of $12345 to be left to the congregation of Upper Left Boot United Church for general purposes." That way the recipients hands aren't tied. A separate donation to the Mission and Service Fund as a residue of the estate is also appropriate.
BTW, churches with considerable investments, unless they are tied or bound by the terms of the gift, MAY be used for operating expenses. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about. And manse funds are a separate issue altogether. They may have presbytery restrictions. What ususally ties up funds is fear.
seeler
DKS - you say "churches with
Posted on: 09/04/2010 09:33
DKS - you say "churches with considerable investments, unless they are tied or bound by the terms of the gift, MAY be used for operating expenses."
Thank you for making that clear. It just doesn't make sense to have $$$ tied up in investments while staffing is cut back and programs are eliminated because of lack of cash flow. What good are those investments going to be when the church not only fails to attract new members but loses the members they have (probably the younger members) because it is unable to meet their needs for Sunday School materials, youth programs, pastoral care, outreach, etc.?
GordW
A related question
Posted on: 09/04/2010 11:28
A related question emerges:
Is it mandatory to accept a gift? If the conditions on the gift do not match the needs of the recipient is is allowable to say no thanks? (legally you can say no, but how about politically/pastorally/practically?)
RichardBott
Hi, Gord - I think that it
Posted on: 09/04/2010 11:46
Hi, Gord -
I think that it is politically astute, pastorally appropriate and practically necessary to say, "We appreciate the gift, but are unable to accept it."
Sometimes its because the gift is so encumbered by rules that the Trustees are unable to administer it properly - or the congregation is unable to use it. (I've seen gifts on churches' books that were given decades ago, for a specific project desired by the giver. In some cases the gift wasn't enough for the project to be done, but no one else felt called to move the project forward. In other cases, the gift led to a project that the congregation (or its governing body) didn't feel was in line with the church's ministry and mission. So the money sat there.)
I think there are a couple of things that can help. The Trustees can show the congregation what happens to gifts that come bound with strings (eg. they languish, without much happening, the funds tied up). The Trustees can come up with an "planned gifts policy" so the congregation can clearly see how trust funds are invested and - categorically, at least - how they will be used.
A gift that is tied up in rules - "You can only use this scarf when you go out for dinner. You can't wear it in the house. You must wear it with something red." - isn't much of a gift at all. It'll sit in a drawer. And, for someone like me, who can only wear red when its covered up by other colours, it'll never come out of the drawer.
Christ's peace - r
seeler
GordW - I would hope that if
Posted on: 09/04/2010 11:51
GordW - I would hope that if the church board hears that they are about to receive a gift that is inappropriate or impractical (ie stained glass when the roof is falling in) that they might approach the person making the generous offer with the suggestion that while the gift is much appreciate, it could be better used at this time for ___ (a new roof) . They might want to have the minister's support, and perhaps that of the visiting elder responsible for keeping in touch with this person.
If the gift is in the form of a bequest and the church only finds out after the death of the testator - I don't know what, if anything, could be done.
GordW
Richard and I think along the
Posted on: 09/04/2010 12:18
Richard and I think along the same lines (which scares me at times, but then I think like his parents at times too--which also worries me
)
I would give much the same answer as he did to my question--although not as well I might add.
But how does one explain that to the congregation? And yes, if you are going to give a gift then give it without strings. Unless of course the recieveing body has said "we would like gifts to support..." then that is a totally different issue.
DKS
GordW wrote: A related
Posted on: 09/04/2010 12:22
A related question emerges:
Is it mandatory to accept a gift? If the conditions on the gift do not match the needs of the recipient is is allowable to say no thanks? (legally you can say no, but how about politically/pastorally/practically?)
"No" is always an option. We are forever being offered organs and pianos, but as we have enough at the moment, we decline them now. I know of a church which declined a pulpit. It caused friction, but the Board clearly said they didn't want it.
DKS
seeler wrote: If the gift is
Posted on: 09/04/2010 12:23
If the gift is in the form of a bequest and the church only finds out after the death of the testator - I don't know what, if anything, could be done.
That becomes a discussion to have with the estate executor.
DKS
seeler wrote: DKS - you say
Posted on: 09/04/2010 12:30
DKS - you say "churches with considerable investments, unless they are tied or bound by the terms of the gift, MAY be used for operating expenses."
Thank you for making that clear. It just doesn't make sense to have $$$ tied up in investments while staffing is cut back and programs are eliminated because of lack of cash flow. What good are those investments going to be when the church not only fails to attract new members but loses the members they have (probably the younger members) because it is unable to meet their needs for Sunday School materials, youth programs, pastoral care, outreach, etc.?
I agree. And I am blessed with Trustees who think in a like-minded manner. we have what we call Restricted Funds, which are set aside for certain things, including a fund to support members who become candidates for ministry. We just saw a candidate through to ordination, and the find is somewhat depleted, but it will be replenished. Our larger funds are Non-Restricted and can be used for any purpose the Church Council directs. We paid for our new furnace that way. And we advance our Finance Committee the annual insurance premium of $6,000 which is paid back on a monthly basis from the General Fund. We pay for capital expenses like a new photocopier and office computers out of that fund, too.
BTW, never lease a photcopier. Always buy a just off-lease copier and pay for service. Capital cost is about $2500 and annual operating costs are about $1500. We have a copier dealer in our city who has cornered the church market that way.
RichardBott
About three years ago, St.A-H
Posted on: 09/04/2010 13:03
About three years ago, St.A-H received a sizable bequest. Because we had been discussing our mission as a church and had been taking a deep look at what it means to live a steward's life, I was looking forward to the Trustees' discussion.
The first comment made by one of the Trustees was, "Well, folks - we've been talking a lot about how everything in our life is a gift of God, and how we need to celebrate these gifts. We've been talking about tithing as a personal act. I'd like to suggest that we tithe 10% of this gift, by giving it to another ministry that needs it." I expected the comment to fall flat. St.A-H had never seen this kind of money before, we had debts to pay off, etc. etc. etc.
The response of the Trustees? Everyone was in agreement. They took the idea to the congregation as part of our investment policy... and the congregation loved the idea. We know what it's like to try and do ministry with debt hanging over our head, so we're going to try and help other ministries with gifts that come to us.
The other part was the adamant statement of the Trustees, and the Treasurer, that we are NOT a bank. Our task is NOT to accumulate wealth. Our task is to use the resources that we have been fortunate enough to receive to do the ministry and mission to which we are called. So, while we have investments, we're working hard to wisely use the funds to live out our mission. Another kind of investment, I guess...
BTW - Gord - *grin* long live Bottitude. *ROTFL*
Christ's peace - r
DKS
RichardBott wrote: The
Posted on: 09/04/2010 13:33
The other part was the adamant statement of the Trustees, and the Treasurer, that we are NOT a bank. Our task is NOT to accumulate wealth. Our task is to use the resources that we have been fortunate enough to receive to do the ministry and mission to which we are called. So, while we have investments, we're working hard to wisely use the funds to live out our mission. Another kind of investment, I guess...
BTW - Gord - *grin* long live Bottitude. *ROTFL*
Christ's peace - r
Last year our Church Council decided to donate a portion of our Trustees funds to another church, not in our denomination, who were entering a building plan to restore their historic property. It took some thinking, but everyone was in agreement. And there was no negative feedback from the congregation. Yeah. Mission is what you give away...