My soon to be ex-husband is a Free Mason and he wants our 6 year old daughter to join Job's Daughters. Admittedly I don't know much about it, so I'm looking for some insight from people who have some experience with it.
I have no direct experience, but some indirect. I think the masons are pretty good people and, at worst, are innocious.
I think parents should strive to give their children the large social context as possible. If your ex-husband can get her in and will pay the bill, why not?
I would be cautious but not block it altogether. The problem with the Free Masons is that they are a secret society and as such they are open to abuses. I would really want more information and I would want to KNOW the people who are leading it. If I was satisfied that the people running the program were of solid integrity and working on a philosophy of loving kindness I would probably let her go. I would also want to know things like goals, missions statements of the program. I would also pay very close attention to my daughter after she started attending and be alert to anything that seemed amiss.
I am a Freemason. I am also a UCCminister. We are not a Secret Society; we are a Society with a secret. People who wish to visit a Lodge can do so, with prior notice. Masons focus on improving their lives morlly and spiritually, and contribute to charitable work. In many ways it is a boy's club with a long history, some profound purposes, and rituals that remind us of our obligations and committments.
If you need more, don't hesitate to ask. If you know any Masons personally, ask them. It will be no problem.
What concerns me is the secrecy. I've been doing a bit of reading and the FreeMasons themselves come from a shady and violent beginning. Idon't want my daughter learning anywhere that she should keep secrets from me. And if it were really open, then prior notification wouldn't be needed. That just makes me more suspicious. Obviously it would be different if I need to notify them that I'm coming and everyone would be on guard. I've contacted the local "chapter" of Job's Daughters near us for more information. It reminds me too much of Scientology I think. Every time I mention them in people tell me to watch out. They're like a gang and such. Thanks for the input everyone!
I was raised in a Masonic home. My father is a Freemason, my mother belongs to Eastern Star,and both my sisters, where in Jobs daughters. (I didn't join Jobs daughters in my youth, because I was more of a tom-boy, wanted to play baseball.) Anyway, the Masons and Eastern star members have been a very supportive part of my life. I can see the friendships formed by both parents, the confidence my mother has gained over the years,holding different positions, until becoming Worthy Grand Matron. The respect my father has earned with his years of committment, that he can now pass on to the younger men. His brothers was been there, rough times, and good times, and as friends. The roles and committments they held to theses organizations, created a strong moral family life for us. Anyone can find out anything they want about Masons and Eastern Star, I never thought of it as secret society as much as private. My husband has just join Freemasonary, and is very proud. The memorization can be difficult, but understanding it, learning it, an living it, does make "Good Men Better"
At 50 I am just now joining Eastern Star. I wish I had done it a long time ago. My family is also part of the United Church. I feel the combination of all of these organizations created a good balance.
Talk to a Masons or Eastern Star member, there is no conspiracy, it's immpossible. Makes for good movies I guess, there is a lot more to read, concerning their history as well.
Just go visit a few times and keep on visiting. There are probably good freemasons and bad ones like with everything else. Follow their rules and be respectful. Make it clear to your husband that if you catch anything shady your daughter is out of there.
Or better yet why don't you join so that you can pop in by surprise whenever you want? It is worth considering and then once you are satisfied nothing strange is going on you can stop going.
You have to wonder why for over 300 years the Catholic Church has forbid it's memebers from becoming Masons. They do not have official policies against ecumenical movements and certainly not charitible organizations, and yet Mason's and their affiliates, such as those mentioned by others, Job's Daughters, Order of the Eastern Star, are forbidden. Mainly this is due to the Mason's teachings on apostasy concerning the nature of God, religious indifferentism, eternal life based on works and morality, etc.). Do a search on Freemasonry oaths, even if these oaths are taken without meaning, what sort of "Christian" organization has such things?
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html is an excellent source, if a little hard to read written by a previous 32nd degree Mason. This is a bit of an excerpt from his site
How does Mason's oaths differ from the secret oaths of the Knights of Columbus? This is also another question frequently thrown in my face. Your answer to this question will be VERY greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance and may God bless you in abundance for your work in this area! I am very grateful! - Michelle
J. Salza: Michelle, I can speak first hand to your question because I took both of them.
Freemasonry imposes an oath, and the Kof C requires a fraternal pledge. There is a big difference.
1. An oath requires the oath-taker to invoke God to witness the promise being made, and subjects the oath-taker to God's divine promise. This is evidenced by the phrase "I solemnly swear" and "so help me God." The KofC does not have this language. Freemasonry does, because Masonry uses oaths, not pledges.
2. The Masonic oaths are not read to the candidate in advance, so he really doesn't know what he will be required to promise. The KofC pledge is read to the candidate in advance.
3. Freemasonry's oaths are also imposed with self-curses (having my throat cut across, and my tongue torn out, etc.) These self-curses mean that the candidate is worthy of the mutilation and death that the penalties symbolize if he ever fails to keep his oath. This also means that Freemasonry takes its business very seriously - they can't just call their organization a social club, otherwise they wouldn't require oaths with self-curses. If they say its all a joke, then they are calling God to witness a lie, which is blasphemous. This also makes their search for godliness and morality also a joke.
I am not criticizing Freemasonry for the good it does. Many groups do good for the community. The issue is not what good it does, but what it teaches. Freemasonry has been condemned by every Christian church who has investigated its teachings, and this should alarm you. The problem with Freemasonry is that it promotes indifferentism - the erroneous belief that all religions are good. Masonry also espouses the belief that all Masons can get to the celestial lodge above, irrespective of their belief in Jesus Christ.
However, it is only by virtue of Christ's death and resurrection that we can get to heaven, and Freemasonry denies, or at a minimum, ignores this truth. Freemasonry is indifferent to truth. It believes that all truths are relative. But God cannot be happy with this, because He has chosen to definitively reveal Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, the only "way, truth and life." Freemasonry does not require its members to believe in Jesus as it teaches about how living a life of Masonic virtue can bring them to heaven. This is why Freemasonry and Christianity are irreconcilable.
I could go on this for quite a lot longer, but I will not. Please look into it. I also recommend looking into healing from the curses and oaths.
is a place to start - many people do not agree with generational curses and blessings, but ask yourself about the way they are spoken of in the Bible. Jacob actually stole Esau's blessing. If it was just a nice wish to his son, why couldn't the father just say to his son, "you tricked me, it doesn't count." and give the blessing to his other son? There is a spiritual aspect to invoking God into blessing or cursing someone, especially our family members.
and to those with family members, or themselves as masons. I want to saw that there are many "good" well intentioned people in their ranks, and they do many charitible things for people, but they teach lies that are inconsistent with Christianity and willingly take oaths and curses over themselves and their families, whether they think anything of it or not.
I would be extremely disinclined to let my daughter be a part of anything I knew so little about. Learn what you can and if you feel there's still too many secrets or things being kept from you be safe and say no. If you do go ahead with it keep asking questions and learning. If at some point you sense your daughter is becoming secretive herself remove her. Probably best to avoid it altogether though.
Really now, a little research by yourself wouldn't hurt. Whatever happened to never judge a book by its cover? For one thing, Job's Daughters is a wonderful, non-profit organization that teaches its members to be respectful of their elders, builds close friendships, and love of ones country. They perform a wide variety of service projects and charity works, and even have their own charity known as HIKE, or Hearing Impaired Kids Endowment Fund. You could see it as a combination of Girl Scouts and a sorority: a sisterhood and a service-based organization.
Now, it is true that they have secret work, but this merely consists of proficiency work, and the signs and repsonses of the order. They are completely harmless and have no need for this uproar and fear of your daughter becoming "too secretive." You can even find and exact copy of their initiation ceremony online or at the library. Also, their meetings welcome visitors anytime, they do not try to keep people out. They WANT people to know about Job's.
I know of two girls who are active members within Job's Daughters, and I can honestly say they are two of the greatest friends I've had in my life, and that is no exaggaration. However, if you still have your doubts, not to mention I have left out many important points, just visit their website at www.iojd.org or its California website at www.caiojd.org Both have very substansial information about Job's Daughters, of which I hope will quell your unfortunate misconceptions.
Job's Daughters is a great organization! My mother was a member in the 1960s, myself in the 1980s and now my daughters are members.
Job's Daughters has been beneficial to my life throughout the years, in school, in college and in work.
The teachings are based on the trials and tribulations of Job. The members run their own meetings, plan events, fundraisers, and service projects. There are advisors (Guardian council) who are there to assist when needed. Beyond love of god, respect of parents and guardians, and love of country, this organization enables it's members to develop a strong self esteem.
The 'secrets' as explained above are the same that would be in any 'club'. A secret handshake, and watchwords. Really, these are to be able to recognize a member anywhere in the world!
Speaking of, Job's Daughters is an International organization. There are members all through the US, Canada, Phillipines, Brazil and Australia!
I would encourage you to attend a bethel meeting in your area. Talk to the members, and council members. Research on your own. Also note that there may be a number of bethels, so if you do decide to let her join, check them all out, because the organization really is held together by the friendships, and your daughter should be able to get along with the girls she is hanging out with!
There are too many negative things said about the masonic organization as a whole, and the only true way you will be able to know if it is right for your daughter is to check it out!
And Job's Daughters age is 10-20 years, so you have at least 4 years to check it out.
Hi, I am an Honored Queen of a bethel in Jobs Daughters. I honestly find nothing wrong with being a little sketched out to let your daughter join, but to be honest, we're just a normal group of girls. We all like different music, some play sports, we do a lot of different stuff to make us unique but the one thing that combines us is our loyalty to one another. Yes, there is some secret work, but to be honest, you can find all of it on the internet. If you let your daughter join you won't regret it, I promise :)
Hi TrippAdriana - welcome to wondercafe. I hope you'll stick around and post on some other threads too , not just this one. Sounds like "secret" isn't so secret anymore, with the internet info availability. Is Jobs Daughters more common in some parts of the USA - is it fairly widespread in Canada? I haven't heard of it in my own community.
me neither... i'd like to know more as well.
Be very, VERY, VERY wary of internet anti-freemason, or cult "information" sites like the one's Charles posted. YOu are very unlikely to get valid information from any site that has a religious agenda against the people you want to know about.
This comes from a lifetime of experience trying to convince people that I don't sacrifice babies just because some fundie site says that's what I do. Most of those sites don't seem to follow the commandment about not committing false witness.
If you want to know where the sparrow flies, ask the sparrow.
Excellent point Witch - pertaining to looking up everything and anything on the net ... there is lots of good and terrible information out there. It's important to somehow to discover more about the source and consider the validity and/or bias of the postings before accepting what is read ... that old media literacy thing!
Hi, I am an Honored Queen of a bethel in Jobs Daughters.
If you read "brothel" in the above sentence, it's much more entertaining.
I'm also not sure what a "Queen" would be doing in a brothel, but I suppose it wouldn't be the first time.
Hi, I'm a Citizen Racer in the Ontario Cycling Association, and a Team Manager in Alpine Ontario South Master's Division. And while neither organization provides a career path to the title of "Queen", they both offer kids the chance to learn about themselves, gain self-confidence, be physically fit, and all without any secret handshakes, mumbo-jumbo or religion-speak.
And if there is one thing that would have me "sketched out to let (my) daughter join", it's that somebody there has the title of "Honored Queen".
I had a friend who was in Job's daughters and knew of at least one other person in it. Nothing I knew about it seemed unhealthy, I had meet many of her friends from it at parties and stuff. Some of the stuff seemed kind of odd (my friend compared installation to planning a wedding), but I'm sure there's tons of clubs that have traditions that seem odd to outsiders.
I had an aunt who belonged-lower mainland-that's all I know.
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