With Quebec ancestry, and having worked briefly in Quebec, I found that the English speaking remnant (and I'm speaking 30-35 years ago) were sort of 'circling the wagons' and retreating rather than advancing.  When I drove through town with my Ontario plates, I would often get yelled at in French.  (Whenever I replied in French, they were silent and surprised.)  My ancestors left Quebec about 5 generations ago and I know some people who are sending their children out of province so they will also learn English, which is still the language of international business (although Spanish is increasing in influence).  Indeed, my niece studied in the States and worked in Spain and Spanish was a more beneficial second language for her.  Quebec as a separate entity would become an island and would have to learn to function in at least one other language if they were to survive on the international scene.  The francophone communities in my area and in a few other provinces perceive themselves as not a part of Quebec, but as a part of the province in which they reside.  Furthermore, my understanding is that most of Northern Quebec was only deeded to Quebec for maintenance.  Would they be allowed to take that part of Quebec with them?  They even wanted to claim Labrador before Newfoundland stood up to them and even changed their province's name to "Newfoundland and Labrador".  Shooting yourself in the foot is one thing.  Shooting yourself in the head is quite something else.

I've certainly not done any official survey, but my general perception is to agree with graeme about the attitude of the rest of Canada. I think there's a growing sense of "if they want to go let them go." I think that sense would be exacerbated by another referendum. I've heard people (I think only half-jokingly) suggest that the rest of Canada should hold a referendum to decide whether to let Quebec stay.

Les Quebecois should think seriously about the consequences of separation if, indeed, another referendum comes. My perception (which comes mainly from the media) has been that a lot think that life would go on pretty much as it was. I remember some of Levesque's ideas - the whole "sovereignty association" bit (which I think is still in the minds of a lot of Quebeckers even though it isn't talked about a lot - that seems to be the model that folks still think of). I can remember in 1980 concepts like common currency, common citizenship, common passports, common armed forces being thrown around. It's a huge leap of faith to assume that the RoC would agree to those "commonalities." The common currency idea, for example. It seemed to me that Quebec assumed that with independence they could keep the Canadian dollar and have an equal say with the RoC on monetary policy. Why would the RoC (with a population far greater than Quebec) agree to give an independent Quebec any say over monetary policy? (For that matter, if Quebec wanted any sort of association, why would the RoC give an independent Quebec an equal share in anything?) I would think instead that if Quebec wanted to keep the Canadian dollar that would be fine - but the relationship would be somewhat akin to Panama and the U.S. Panama uses the U.S. dollar as legal currency alongside its own "balboa" - although the only paper money that circulates there is the U.S. dollar, but it has no say in U.S. monetary policy. Even in terms of language and culture, I think Quebec (francophone Quebec) is more secure within Canada than outside it. Without Canada, Quebec becomes a small nation totally surrounded by anglophone nations - because bilingualism in the RoC wouldn't last. Why would the RoC be officially English/French, when you could make a very strong argument that (if the RoC was going to be bilingual) the second language should be Italian or Chinese - both of which groups exist in huge numbers in the RoC.

I remember an editorial cartoon from the time in which the first referendum was held, with a cigarette smoking Levesque saying "Quebec is tired of being a province that's totally dependent on Canada; now we want to be an independent nation that's totally dependent on Canada!" I'm not entirely sure that the cartoon is far off the mark.

It would do more than wreak havoc with French Immersion - it would make French Immersion pointless. In a Canada in which official English/French bilingualism would eventually disappear, being bilingually English and French would be pointless - sorry, but French is not a significant language on the world stage. Far better to speak Chinese or Spanish along with English to compete economically on the world stage.

 From my perspective in the Canadian Navy, I would be a little worried if Quebec left.

Why I say that is because, generally speaking, the personnel who make up the forces(NCMs anyways) most of the time come from low income areas or places that don't have a lot of job prospects.

We're seeing more and more people coming from southern Ontario since the Big 3(Chrysler,GM, and Ford) started laying off a lot of people.  Aside from that anomaly, I see numbers around 25 - 30% of the Navy comprises of people from Quebec, 25-30% coming from the Maritimes, and the remainder coming from the rest of the provinces combined.

If this is any indicator of status of the economy in these regions, then I would say that Quebec might be in for a rough go once they leave.  I won't say that they aren't able to succeed as a separate nation, I only think that they might come across some difficulties financially getting started.

In the end, it is from my limited perspective that I say this, I am not an economist or political scientist. 

I would say that this is one of the reasons why Quebec might not leave. Low income franacophones are much more federalists. Also provincial civil servants are more likely to be federalist. After the 1980 referendum the PQ took thier revenge on the poor and provinical civil servants for not voting for independence. (Civil servants salaries were cut 24%, welfare for those under 30 was 148 dollars a month)

Now that Pauline Marois has offically abandonned social democracy and embraced free markets, these groups are more likely to reject independence in even greater numbers.

It also makes the possibility of the PQ even being elected a lot less likely as now there are two different independence supporting parties in Quebec`s legislature. The PQ and the social democratic Quebec Solidaire.

 Any second language is useful to learn, it just depends which one is more accessible. You do make a good point about USA influence, so IMHO the only competition for French in the long term is Spanish, or African American English.

I think that in the Maritimes the study of French will still be important.  Even without Quebec, we still have a fairly large percentage of people for whom French is the first language (the Acadians), and NB is Canada's only bilingual province.  I think that as long as Canada exists we will have French in NB.

My big worry if Quebec left is that the RoC would forget about the Maritimes as being too far away and separated by two foreign countries (Quebec or the USA) to bother with.  Either we would have to develop on our own or become a territory or protectorate of some other country (be it Canada, Quebec, or the USA).  Heaven forbid on all counts.

When I lived in Quebec in 1976, many anglophone voters voted for the PQ as a protest vote against the current government, not because they favoured independence of sovereignty association.  (I'll give Rene Levesque on thing, however, he was a snappy dresser).  Visioning Quebec without Canada is a problem moreso than the other way around.  Even so, there'll always be an Ontario.  The remaining provinces are invited and welcome to join the Dominion of Ontario and become a part of that new country. (We will annex the area of Northern Quebec deeded to the province initially and charge them an arm and a leg for power, etc.  The Montreal Canadiens, however, will be known as the Montreal Bloqs.)

 That`s funny. I did not know that about Rene Levesque.  

All during the eighties, other than Charles Taylor, Graeme Decarie and Robert Libman, I knew of no other leaders in the anglophone community that was not reactionary, or ashamed of being anglophone, or afraid to stand up for their rights and those of other people.

When I was politically active in Quebec City in various groups like RAJ ( a youth movement fighting for welfare reform), NPD Quebec, Queer groups, everyone would insist on calling me Alexandre. No matter what I put on membership applications, the NPD and others  would always list me with Alexandre and leave the T out of my last name (Johnston) to make into a franco.   When I pointed out that those were not my name people would laugh and say it sounded better. or that it was better to be seen as a franco.   I felt as much external pressure to internalise anglophobia as I did homophobia.    

When I said I was an anglo, people would also say OK but you are not like other anglos. This was true, but I also knew that what they though of as anglos were not what most anglos were.  However other anglo were afraid to speak out and admit they were anglos and were not reactionary.

The PQ and the LIberals had a lie that the reason that no anglophones were hired by the provincial government  was because they refused to move to Quebec City. However the percentage of anglos hired 3% was lower than the percentage of the anglo population in Quebec City. 5-7%. And almost all of those were in the English section of the Department of Education.   

I assumed people thought I was a nut when I said anglos need to start having Pride in themselves like Queers.

I  say the same to francophones, have Pride in who you are, and stop blaming or fearing others.  Stand up to real threats, and ignore the imaginary threats.       

It was a breath of fresh air whenever I heard you speak Graeme. You live what you preach, and you do not accept any shame put on you by others.  I really admired that and I could have only wished to have had 1/10 the ability and social/speaking  skills you do.

 I highly doubt we'd be absorbed by the USA, at least not willingly. I don't think US citizens would even accept Canadian provinces as part of their country anyways. Like Alex said, we are very politically different than the US and i dont think Canadians would accept being a part of the USA - I know I would very strongly oppose it..

If Quebec ever does seperate, I'm moving immediately to PEI.

Graeme, did you not start your University teaching career on PEI. 

If you found them petty  on PEI than you must have been talking to my family members. My grandmother once told me her MLA and the Finance minister was known to  steal.  How is that I asked. She told me that when he was 8 he stole some tomatoes from her garden. People don`t change, she said (fifty years later)

There are only a little over 100,000 people on the Island, and half are Catholics and half are Protestants. Until recently the never married outside their group, so almost everyone is related to each other in each group. My Dad and his brothers all and to leave the Island after High School.

God help you through if you are from away. They will never let you forget that.

There is too much gloom and doom on this thread about the possibility of Quebec seceding from Canada. Get over it; it's not going to happen. So let's try to be more optimistic and proud of the history and culture we have developed over the last 143 years.

My experience in traveling through France and Quebec has been very positive. At no time have I experienced discrimination or racism on the part of les Quebecois ou les Francais but that may be because I speak French with them. As for the sentiment of the rest of Canada towards Quebec,obviously attitudes will vary depending on one's own personal experience. Some will appreciate the French language and culture, others will not. But that is no different than most countries; the Americans in the south have a different way of looking at life than the Americans in the north etc etc So let's be more positive about our country and promote the uniqueness that we possess.

True, but they'd be gaining a WINNING hockey team, both men's and women's, not some 'scrub team' that only gets silver.

Graeme - the Separatist movement has peaked and gone. The PQ won't push another referendum unless they have a chance of winning.

The PQ is a coalition of a wide spread of politics from weedy Socialists to French Fascists. The cracks are growing. Canada has soft pedaled their arguments against separatism to their discredit. The weak spot is the PQ's lack of commitment to human rights.

The feds determine equalisation payments based on economic need; race, religion and language are not part of the equation. So the wealthier provinces are able to share their good fortune with the less wealthy and that is what makes Canada such a great country.

This is a bit of a sidebar to the present topic but perhaps we should remember that Quebec soldiers are doing their share of the fighting and dying in Afghanistan. If you are a Canadian soldier in a fire-fight with the Taliban you really don't care whether the buddy beside you is from New Brunswick, Ontario or Quebec; we are all Canadians fighting for a common cause. By the way I do not support the military mission in Afghanistan but I do support our troops.

 Graeme

Most NATO soldiers who go to fight in Afghanistan do so out of principle. They sincerely believe that  a) our national security is at stake and  b) the Afghan people need protection from the evil Taliban. Whether we agree or disagree with the reasoning we have to respect the fact that these soldiers are laying down their lives for what they believe.

Since 2001-2002, over 300 Canadian soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan (mostly in Kandahar) and the numbers are similar for British soldiers (mostly in Helmand province). And for every dead soldier returning home, there are three who are returning with life changing injuries. These people and the families involved need our support...financial, moral and psychological. Also we as Canadians have an obligation to stay in Afghanistan until 2011. Whether we agree or disagree, this is a commitment made by our government and we owe it to our soldiers to provide them with the best possible training and equipment. This is what I mean when I say I support our troops.

Having said this, I do not support the military mission. We  should have withdrawn our troops much earlier and allowed the Afghans to decide for themselves how they want to run their country. Like you I blame the politicians and the media for promoting this war. I would be an advocate of allowing young Afghan girls to go to school and allowing them to enjoy individual freedoms but it is not my call nor the call of people outside Afghanistan. The Americans tried to ram through their ideology in Vietnam and got their head handed to them. They are trying the same thing in Afghanistan and dragging us along for the ride and we have no politicians who will say no.  The unfortunate reality is that more soldiers will have to die before the public gets angry enough to demand an end.