Immigration Minister pulled gay rights from citizenship guide, documents show - The Globe and Mail
I am very disturbed to hear of this decision by the Ministry of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism to intentionally remove any reference to gay rights in the new study guide for immigrants. I think our history and position as a country is clear and something to be proud of - decriminalization of homosexuality, Charter protection on sexual orientation and legalization of same-sex marriage. It would indicate that the Minister is out of step with the majority of Canadians. This is an old issue that needs to go down with slavery, need for women’s suffrage, anti-Semitism, aggressive aboriginal assimilation.
I think that Minister Kenney of all people must be prepared to welcome all law abiding and progressive people and ensure that any new Canadian is clear to understand that sexual orientation in Canada is not an issue with our government or our people.
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Comments
ppeterson
A facebook page created
Posted on: 03/02/2010 23:28
A facebook page created http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/group.php?gid=339801999442&ref=nf for more information.
graeme
Obviously, the Harper
Posted on: 03/03/2010 00:32
Obviously, the Harper strategy is to firm up his base - which is a neanderthal gang on human rights and economics and religion. He cannot afford to lose any of them. People who are angered by what he has done are the ones who were going to vote against him anyway. Meanwhile, he depends on the continuing disorganization of the liberals to keep their vote down.
Expect plenty of obnoxious stuff like this as an election nears.
Notice, too, that he is conforming very closely and very publicly to US foreign policy.
preecy
Between, this, dodging
Posted on: 03/03/2010 02:29
Between, this, dodging questions on Afghansitan, Kairos, Human Rights and Democracy and thei rgeneral incompetence I need to go have a tea and let my blood pressure drop back down.
Peace
Joel
*breathe in breathe our*
sighsnootles
what an asshole that jason
Posted on: 03/03/2010 07:14
what an asshole that jason kenney is.
Birthstone
the reality is that
Posted on: 03/03/2010 07:41
the reality is that 'witholding information' is the same thing as taking away someone's rights. If someone doesn't know they are equal, than they are not. Kenny's actions are inexcusable - there is room on the document. There are no illegal effects of including it. He technically is breaking the law by zeroing in on that, I think.
Kenney time and again proves he is a barbaric oaf who thinks he's better than everyone else.
And sadly, as Graeme said, until the Liberasl have their act together, the Conservative freight train will continue to pummell whoever they want.
Preecy- that's how I felt too.
MorningCalm
ppeterson wrote:I think that
Posted on: 03/03/2010 08:11
In about another 1.5 years my wife and stepson will be eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship. The actions of Minister Kenney are problematic. I would like my wife and stepson, and all newcomers to our great land to know just what kind of country they're signing themselves up for.
Northwind
That is sad. When I think of
Posted on: 03/03/2010 11:46
That is sad. When I think of it in context of other things this government has done, I am worried.
Motheroffive
I don't think it's only about
Posted on: 03/03/2010 20:51
I don't think it's only about rights, however that is important. It's also about giving those who are planning to move to Canada information about the laws, not just the rights, of this land. Different countries have laws that are built out of a code, norms, or the moral framework of each of them. As we know, equality on the basis of sexual orientation is not something that every country supports so I think it's important to educate potential newcomers that we, backed up by our laws, do. The expectation is that people will respect and obey (civil disobedience notwithstanding) our laws and because our laws in this area are quite different from those of many other areas, it's important that everyone knows what they are.
graeme
Bleshpin, close your eyes and
Posted on: 03/03/2010 21:16
Bleshpin, close your eyes and try to think really, really hard. Among other things, this indicates we have a government which listens closely to some of the most ignorant and intolerant part of our population, and makes sure it will not be offended.
The acceptance of gays was an advanced step for our nation to take. Many still have have not. When you make an advanced step you make sure the world knows it. For the minister to intervene on what is a standard brochure just so some bigots won't be offended is not only petty. It also indicates that in the mind of at least one cabinet minister, and perhaps of the PM, we have not made that step atll.
Birthstone
Beshpin - you asked what I
Posted on: 03/03/2010 21:17
Beshpin - you asked what I meant... I have worked with people who are in a situation very new to them, where they didn't know how to act, what to expect, who would help, or even what questions to ask. It didn't matter if these people were rich or poor, educated or not, sick or healthy... they had no bearings on even where to start from. Having someone provide basic info and FAQ's and wisdom, rather than treating them as if they were just a number meant a lot and opened up a new world to them. It made the difference between a rich experience and a frightening war story. Often the people in control of the situation would say things like "don't worry - we do this all the time" which is really disempowering. For the record, that situation is childbirth in a hospital.
For an immigrant to this country, whether they are rich or poor, educated or not, sick or healthy... when they are handed a document meant to inform them of their rights/options/next steps etc; it needs to tell them what they need to know, or they have been poorly supported. Especially if the document is intended to provide that sort of information.
I agree, this is not the biggest issue Canada faces, but it is one more painful symptom of that biggest issue - that we have a jerk as a PM.
MorningCalm
Motheroffive wrote: I don't
Posted on: 03/03/2010 22:08
I don't think it's only about rights, however that is important. It's also about giving those who are planning to move to Canada information about the laws, not just the rights, of this land. Different countries have laws that are built out of a code, norms, or the moral framework of each of them. As we know, equality on the basis of sexual orientation is not something that every country supports so I think it's important to educate potential newcomers that we, backed up by our laws, do. The expectation is that people will respect and obey (civil disobedience notwithstanding) our laws and because our laws in this area are quite different from those of many other areas, it's important that everyone knows what they are.
Yes, that's my prime concern, as my wife and stepson will soon become citizens.
sighsnootles
besh, for me the problem is
Posted on: 03/05/2010 08:05
besh, for me the problem is simply that of all the stuff to cut, kenney chose to cut a paragraph which stated that you cannot discriminate against people because of their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. it makes no sense to take this out of a booklet which is supposed to be providing information for new canadians... that is just BASIC STUFF.
considering kenneys background, it simply makes one wonder if he is trying to make a statement. if he wants to make a statement about something, fine. by all means. as a canadian citizen, he has that right and freedom, and as a citizen, he is allowed to do so.
HOWEVER, as the minister in charge of this portfolio, he must act as a representative of the canadian population, and must act on behalf of all of us, NOT JUST HIMSELF.
deleting this very basic and neccessary detail from such an important book simply proves that because of his personal bias, the man is not able to fufill the duties of the position he has been given.
and THAT is a huge problem, imho.
DKS
Northwind wrote: That is sad.
Posted on: 03/05/2010 08:07
That is sad. When I think of it in context of other things this government has done, I am worried.
You will have a chance to express your opinion at the next election.
DKS
sighsnootles wrote: besh, for
Posted on: 03/05/2010 08:11
besh, for me the problem is simply that of all the stuff to cut, kenney chose to cut a paragraph which stated that you cannot discriminate against people because of their race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.
Sexual orienetation as a basis for discrimination is not a protected charter right. Gender, however, is. Gender is not sexual orientation. While Kenny's decision may be offensive to some, there is a legal and appropriate background for what he has said.
redbaron338
DKS wrote: While Kenny's
Posted on: 03/05/2010 08:29
While Kenny's decision may be offensive to some, there is a legal and appropriate background for what he has said.
It may be legal, but it does not necessarily follow that it is appropriate.
DKS
redbaron338 wrote: DKS
Posted on: 03/05/2010 09:24
While Kenny's decision may be offensive to some, there is a legal and appropriate background for what he has said.
It may be legal, but it does not necessarily follow that it is appropriate.
Who said Minister Kenny was appropriate? His path is legally appropriate, however.
Birthstone
I think it woudl be
Posted on: 03/05/2010 09:34
I think it woudl be interesting to double check that DKS, in that this document was prepared for a purpose that includes the information left out. It could be investigated what the motives were for leaving one line out while the rest stayed (not really a space issue), and why that topic particularly. It could be investigated why the bureaucracy asked to have it replaced, and it was said again, No. And who exactly decided that & why. Also, it could be investigated why such decisions, if personally biased, were allowed to impact a publicly funded, public-serving document like this one.
If it was shown that Kenney, or some other gov't rep chose to exclude gay rights information from a public purpose, based on personal bias, that would be illegal I think.
airclean33
If it was shown that Kenney,
Posted on: 03/05/2010 10:39
If it was shown that Kenney, or some other gov't rep chose to exclude gay rights information from a public purpose, based on personal bias, that would be illegal I think Birthstone ----Wrote----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I would agree. that we check both sides of the Issu. But I don't belive a gov"t rep would use his or her office to Be Bias, Not in Canada.
DKS
Birthstone wrote: If it was
Posted on: 03/05/2010 10:43
If it was shown that Kenney, or some other gov't rep chose to exclude gay rights information from a public purpose, based on personal bias, that would be illegal I think.
What, exactly, is illegal? And can you prove bias before a court of law?
sighsnootles
DKS wrote: Sexual
Posted on: 03/05/2010 10:48
Sexual orienetation as a basis for discrimination is not a protected charter right.
well, according to the globe and mail article it is...
Internal documents show an early draft of the guide contained sections noting that homosexuality was decriminalized in 1969; that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation; and that same-sex marriage was legalized nationally in 2005.
....
And in the section on citizenship rights, the early draft said: "Equality Rights - Canadians are protected against discrimination based on race, gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or age."
sighsnootles
DKS wrote: What,
Posted on: 03/05/2010 10:51
What, exactly, is illegal? And can you prove bias before a court of law?
i wouldn't say it is illegal, DKS...
i would suggest that it raises serious concern as to whether kenney is able to perform the duties of the cabinet position he is in, however.
Birthstone
'illega'l would be to use
Posted on: 03/05/2010 11:13
'illega'l would be to use public funds inappropriately, to further one's personal agenda. Something not unheard of in Canada, airclean. I wish it was, but every time the Conservatives send out a myriad of postcards slamming the Liberals with a pretty C in the corner, they use public money to put forward their gov't. Remember the big huge pretty cheque that the gov't gave to some maritime thing, with the big C in the corner? Illegal. Now, it would be dealt with more in an ethics committee (aka 'shelved') but rarely would it be taken to a court level.
And yes, there are many examples of the Liberals doing it too. No secret.
in that situation, DKS, it is not the particular issue of gay rights that makes this illegal, but the improper use of public money. And yes, bias can be demonstrated adequately in a court of law through previous behaviour and reasonable doubt being the measure. So if one can find enough evidence that a defendent has demonstrated bias as a pattern, and reasonable doubt of other motives is given, and reasonable proof is provided, I'm sure such an argument would be worthwhile in a court. Particulary if the bias works against something protected in our laws/charter and is affecting the public work of a public servant.
Northwind
DKS wrote: Northwind
Posted on: 03/05/2010 11:32
That is sad. When I think of it in context of other things this government has done, I am worried.
You will have a chance to express your opinion at the next election.
I aways do. I did vote, and not for Harper, so I can complain. I live in Jay HIll's riding, so my vote gets swallowed up......though there is talk he might retire....
carolla
Sounds like it might be time
Posted on: 03/05/2010 12:17
Sounds like it might be time to get the "wondercafe letter writers" into action again. Write your MP - let them know your objections. It may not change, but we need to speak our truths to power, not be complicit.
DKS
sighsnootles wrote: DKS
Posted on: 03/05/2010 13:06
Sexual orienetation as a basis for discrimination is not a protected charter right.
well, according to the globe and mail article it is...
Internal documents show an early draft of the guide contained sections noting that homosexuality was decriminalized in 1969; that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation; and that same-sex marriage was legalized nationally in 2005.
....
And in the section on citizenship rights, the early draft said: "Equality Rights - Canadians are protected against discrimination based on race, gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or age."
It's not in the Charter, however.
RevMatt
DKS wrote: Northwind
Posted on: 03/05/2010 17:48
That is sad. When I think of it in context of other things this government has done, I am worried.
You will have a chance to express your opinion at the next election.
I really wish people would recognise the fallacy of that statement, and stop using it.
Northwind
RevMatt wrote: DKS
Posted on: 03/05/2010 18:05
That is sad. When I think of it in context of other things this government has done, I am worried.
You will have a chance to express your opinion at the next election.
I really wish people would recognise the fallacy of that statement, and stop using it.
It sure does not work well in this riding, but at least I know I did not vote for Harper.
sighsnootles
DKS wrote: sighsnootles
Posted on: 03/05/2010 18:25
Sexual orienetation as a basis for discrimination is not a protected charter right.
well, according to the globe and mail article it is...
Internal documents show an early draft of the guide contained sections noting that homosexuality was decriminalized in 1969; that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation; and that same-sex marriage was legalized nationally in 2005.
....
And in the section on citizenship rights, the early draft said: "Equality Rights - Canadians are protected against discrimination based on race, gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or age."
It's not in the Charter, however.
so, where is it, then??
Birthstone
Gee - we have a few Manual
Posted on: 03/05/2010 18:54
Gee - we have a few Manual geeks around here (said lovingly!!
) Any Charter geeks?
MorningCalm
airclean33 wrote: But I don't
Posted on: 03/05/2010 18:59
But I don't belive a gov"t rep would use his or her office to Be Bias, Not in Canada.
GordW
DKS wrote: sighsnootles
Posted on: 03/05/2010 19:17
Sexual orienetation as a basis for discrimination is not a protected charter right.
well, according to the globe and mail article it is...
Internal documents show an early draft of the guide contained sections noting that homosexuality was decriminalized in 1969; that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation; and that same-sex marriage was legalized nationally in 2005.
....
And in the section on citizenship rights, the early draft said: "Equality Rights - Canadians are protected against discrimination based on race, gender, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or age."
It's not in the Charter, however.
Not explicitly anyway. Much arguement and discussion has been had about whether or not it is there implicitly...
sighsnootles
so, where is the bit about
Posted on: 03/05/2010 21:48
so, where is the bit about how 'canadians are protected against discrimination based on race, gender, religion, age, or sexual orientation', then?? where is that found??
alta
Why is this something we
Posted on: 03/05/2010 23:28
Why is this something we should have to tell people? It seems a lot bragging that we have indoor plumbing, and don't put seniors on iceflows. Maybe we need to raise our expectations of what the rest of the world knows and thinks about us.
I actually find it kind of insulting that we are expected to tell people that we don't discriminate here.
DKS
RevMatt wrote: DKS
Posted on: 03/06/2010 15:43
That is sad. When I think of it in context of other things this government has done, I am worried.
You will have a chance to express your opinion at the next election.
I really wish people would recognise the fallacy of that statement, and stop using it.
What is fallacious about it? You will have the right to express your opinion inthe next election. That does not mean that your opinion will be the one which will win in our "first past the post" electoral system, but you will be able to express your feelings.
airclean33
match3frog. wrote: airclean33
Posted on: 03/06/2010 16:50
But I don't belive a gov"t rep would use his or her office to Be Bias, Not in Canada.
sighsnootles
alta wrote: Why is this
Posted on: 03/06/2010 19:47
Why is this something we should have to tell people? It seems a lot bragging that we have indoor plumbing, and don't put seniors on iceflows. Maybe we need to raise our expectations of what the rest of the world knows and thinks about us.
I actually find it kind of insulting that we are expected to tell people that we don't discriminate here.
well, considering that canada is one of what, 5 countries in the world that legalized same sex marriage, i'd suggest that its something rather important to impart to new citizens... chances are, its not something they are familiar with.
besides, uganda is trying to have gay people executed, so we probably should give them the heads up on that one.
sighsnootles
so, DKS, if the writing about
Posted on: 03/06/2010 19:49
so, DKS, if the writing about how you can't discriminate against someone based on their race, religion, gender or sexual orientation isn't where the globe article says it is, can you tell me where it is in canadian government, then??
cause i know i've seen it somewhere....
Motheroffive
GordW wrote: Not explicitly
Posted on: 03/06/2010 20:17
Not explicitly anyway. Much arguement and discussion has been had about whether or not it is there implicitly...
From Sexual Orientation and Legal Rights, a paper from the Parliamentary Library:
"The courts have accepted that Section 15 is to be interpreted broadly, and that 'analogous' grounds, i.e., personal characteristics other than those listed, may also form the basis for discrimination against a group or an individual (Andrews v. Law Society of British Columbia). In 1995, the view that sexual orientation is such an 'analogous' ground, and therefore a prohibited ground of discrimination under the Charter, was confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada under the Egan decision, discussed below under the heading 'Same Sex Spouses'."
I think the debate about sexual orientation being included implicitly is over and that the decision was made, gradually, over time.
preecy
My understanding is that
Posted on: 03/07/2010 18:11
My understanding is that although the charter did not have sexual orientation added but the document which provides the definitions fro groups which are defined as identifieable (and therefore protected under the charter) was modified to have sexual orientation added.
Peace
Joel
ShamanWolf
Beshpin: Well, part of the
Posted on: 03/07/2010 18:42
Beshpin: Well, part of the point of this Citizenship and Immigration guide is to tell people what their rights are.
And I did read the guide. It was a resource in my Civics class.
It wasn't very in-depth. In fact, here's an interesting thing I found on that Facebook group about its MANY omissions:
The following facts about Canada also don’t appear to be important enough to Minister Kenney to merit a mention in his guide:• Canada has laws against propagating hate.• No mention of Peacekeeping, the Canadian flag debate, or the legacy of Lester Pearson.• No mention of Pierre Trudeau or his role in repatriating the C...onstitution in 1982.• Canada played a role in the mission in Rwanda.• A Canadian, John Humphrey, spearheaded the creation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.• Canada’s literary, dance, and music icons have left their mark on the world, but none are mentioned in the guide.• Nellie McClung, a leader of Canada’s suffragette movement, is not mentioned.• While prominent Conservatives like John A. Macdonald, George-ÉtienneCartier, and Robert Borden are featured, Canada’s longest service PrimeMinister, William Lyon Mackenzie King, is not mentioned.Hmmmmm...when is this government going to govern for ALL people?
Yeah, it's definitely not in depth... and all the depth is on one side.
ShamanWolf
Holy heck. I didn't intend
Posted on: 03/07/2010 18:42
Holy heck. I didn't intend for the text to appear so large. Sorry everybody.
LBmuskoka
Motheroffive wrote: GordW
Posted on: 03/07/2010 19:19
Not explicitly anyway. Much arguement and discussion has been had about whether or not it is there implicitly...
From Sexual Orientation and Legal Rights, a paper from the Parliamentary Library:
"The courts have accepted that Section 15 is to be interpreted broadly, and that 'analogous' grounds, i.e., personal characteristics other than those listed, may also form the basis for discrimination against a group or an individual (Andrews v. Law Society of British Columbia). In 1995, the view that sexual orientation is such an 'analogous' ground, and therefore a prohibited ground of discrimination under the Charter, was confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada under the Egan decision, discussed below under the heading 'Same Sex Spouses'."
I think the debate about sexual orientation being included implicitly is over and that the decision was made, gradually, over time.
And easily done since the Charter explicitly states
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination
Last time I looked GLBTs were individuals and therefore worthy of protection.
That hasn't changed has it......
LB - re - Harper's government, nothing surpises me anymore
Is life not a hundred times too short for us to stifle ourselves.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Petethebatman
I'm not sure what part of
Posted on: 04/26/2010 10:41
I'm not sure what part of 'people voted for Harper because the media made Dion look like a fool who was going to destroy the country... because of his bad English' Harper doesn't understand.... how the hell he's getting away with murder is beyond me. I didn't like Dion either, but Harper seems to think he has a strong majority gov't.
I definitely believe that our citizenship guidebook should have the basic laws in Canada - that every individual is equal. Some of us, like Beshpin, find it unimportant to add, however when people are coming from a country where they kill you if your name starts with the letter F, would the people with names starting with F not want to know that Canada is a safe place for them, and that things are different? (Yes, I'm aware it's a ridiculous example.)
Free_thinker
"It's not in the Charter,
Posted on: 04/28/2010 17:48
"It's not in the Charter, however"
This is factually wrong. Sexual orientation was read into the Charter as a protected category by the Supreme Court. It's in there.
Granton
Free_thinker wrote: "It's not
Posted on: 05/03/2010 14:39
"It's not in the Charter, however"
This is factually wrong. Sexual orientation was read into the Charter as a protected category by the Supreme Court. It's in there.
The Charter says people aren't to be discriminated on the basis of sex... that has morphed into sexual orientation... not quite on people's radar in 1981 the way it is today... it is a point that could be debated. Factually, it is not in the Charter. Factually, it has been given meaning by the Courts. Get the diff?
Granton
sighsnootles wrote: so, where
Posted on: 05/03/2010 14:42
so, where is the bit about how 'canadians are protected against discrimination based on race, gender, religion, age, or sexual orientation', then?? where is that found??
Here:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html#anchorbo-ga:l_I-gb:s_1
And you are probably thinking of section 15, where it says sex, not sexual orientation. Which could lead folks to wonder what if they wrote gender instead of sex... ???
Motheroffive
15. (1) Every individual is
Posted on: 05/04/2010 10:45
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Yes, and this section says "without discrimation and, in particular" certain specific categories. Courts have read in "without discrimination" to include sexual orientation and, in my opinion, that's quite appropriate.
Witch
I think the point is best
Posted on: 05/04/2010 11:13
I think the point is best made by considering that it's not a question of what should or should not be in the document in questionm, but rather what was in there, and was taken out.
If it's a question of omission due to space, or just forgetfullness, then the debate over inclusion might be appropriate.
However, the fact of the matter is that references to LGBT rights were already in the citizenship guide.... and someone said "Oh my God, we can't have THAT in there."
LBmuskoka
Motheroffive wrote: 15. (1)
Posted on: 05/08/2010 08:51
15. (1) Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.
Legally the "every individual is equal" is the key.
Its kind of like Jesus' comment to the Pharisees, On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets [Matthew 22:40]
There may be a laundry list attached but in the end the intent is to wash everything.
LB
Democracy arose from men's thinking that if they are equal in any respect, they are equal absolutely.
Aristotle
LBmuskoka
It is quite possible that a
Posted on: 05/08/2010 13:37
It is quite possible that a challenge to section 293 of the Criminal Code would suceed ....
Whatever the historical reasons for not laying charges under the polygamy prohibition, apparently contemporary prosecutors hesitate because they believe this prohibition violates the Charter right to freedom of religion.
DOSSIER: SHOULD POLYGAMY BE RECOGNIZED IN CANADA?
ETHICAL AND LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS
We'll have to wait for the decision of the current challenge...
Rather than appealing that decision, the provincial government asked the B.C. Supreme Court to decide whether the federal law banning polygamy violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
[...]
Legal observers have predicted the case will end up in the Supreme Court of Canada.
Blackmore seeks funds for polygamy hearing
Further, and your evidence may differ, I have not heard of any Canadian polygamist who has been denied
... the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.
or denied the right to vote, enter, remain, leave Canada, to move within provinces and seek employment, deprived of life, liberty and security, subjected to unlawful search or seizure, arbitrarily detained or imprisoned, denied legal counsel upon arrest, continued to be held when detention is not lawful, etc. etc.
Perhaps a full reading of the Charter would be helpful...
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms