While I would welcome an election under those circumstances, as Harper would expose himself as a liar and a hypocrite, I highly doubt it will happen.

Harper's advisors are just not that stupid. It would be a huge gift to the other parties.

Somehow Graeme, I think we missed our chance in the last election.  If the liberals had supported their leader and if the NDP had identified their true opponent, we would have defeated Harper.  True we would have been left with a minority government but it would have been a Liberal government, supported and kept in check by the NDP. 

I'm afraid I don't have much hope of things improving in the next election.  I can't put my faith in any of the leaders. 

 Maybe if we break out torches and pitchforks it will stay there.

"Fifth, and most dangerous is the ideologue or fanatic. They are the most ruthless and they will gleefully violate truth, honesty, and any ethics to achieve their ends. They are easily led and often exploited."

Stephen Harper falls overwhelmingly in this category, and this makes him an exception among Canadian PM's.  Out of all the Western democracies, Canada has perhaps been most immune to the siren song of ideological extremism.  We've had plenty of alternative movements during the 20th century, but nothing like the revolutions and upheavals around questions of what the ideal government looks like that have plagued so much of Europe.  I like to think that's a good thing - one of this country's great strengths.  Harper wants to change all of that by leading a government that is driven by ideology above all else.  He wants to replicate movement-conservatism and Thatcherism here in Canada, just as these fundamentalisms are losing their traction in America and the UK. 

At least with someone who is power-hungry, consideration is given to political advantage, which means recognizing what the public actually wants.  Harper is willing to do that, but only in the short-term, until he can gain a majority.  Read Tom Flanagan and you see very clearly that the intention has always been a fundamental re-writing of Canadian society. 

Prediction: This coming election, for the first time ever, I will not vote Conservative. Just who I will vote for, I have no idea.

I just watched another Harper pre-election ad on TV.  Something about how the economy is recovering.  Makes me wonder why my friend's son is looking for work in California, and why my son isn't getting lots of job offers from here at home.  And I presume that the taxpayers are paying for these ads because they are coming from "The Government of Canada". 

Seeler your friends son is looking for work because employment is a lagging indicator of a recession.

Economic recovery doesn't mean there is no unemployment.

I assume from the liberal posturing in the news that they are going to try a nonconfidence motion.

I feel they are only doing this to force Layton, who is very low in the polls, to vote for the Government.  It is an effort to make themselves look decisive and Layton look like he is caving.  But i think it can be spun by the NDP that they are doing what a minority parliament is supposed to do, agree when you can, negotiate when you can, .......

It may work to make Layton look weak ( and with the Toronto Mayor dropping out he might even choose to try to be Mayor of the largest city rather than NDP leader with nothing to do)  but I doubt it makes the liberals look strong.

To me it makes them look dumb.  They have come forward with no insight or issue, just a "we want to be in charge" so "we need an election".

Not good enough.

I have been surprised by Ignatief actually.  While i thought it bizaare that they crowned him king , I did actually expect more from him.

lastpointe - I am not as knowledgable about politics as many people are.  But I have seen, and I see, Harper looking for a majority.  He forced an unwanted election last fall because he hoped for a majority.  He knows that the people don't want another election, so I doesn't want to call one himself, but is trying his best to force a no-confidence vote so that he can blame the Liberals for bringing on an unwanted election.  Meanwhile he is out campaigning at taxpayers expense, calling it a 'message from your government'.

What he should be doing is cooperating with the elected representatives of all the parties to bring about the best possible government for Canada, and forget about forcing another election and hopeing for a majority until this term is up.

He's had a couple of kicks at the can now.  Its time to realize that the majority of Canadians do not support him.

I know you obviously have a lot of hatred toward Harper and conservatives in general, but I really wonder if it blinds you too.  Graeme is most definately not a conservative, but he seems to recognize where one party is usually not to blame over this stuff.

Did the conservatives really put something into the motion last year that the liberals could not compromise on?  Just because the government put up something that was not what their party would have done does this mean they have to vote no-confidence?  Layton even has even said in the past that he would vote no-confidence regardless of what the government put forward.  So, what.  They could put forward an entirely NDP system and he would vote against it?

Yes I think the Conservatives have done posturing in order to facilitate these things, but they are far from alone in it.  They have dropped a lot of their original more right wing policies in order to get things done in a minority parliment, granted some of this is probably just to stay in power long enough to say, "we did this, and this and this," but would any of the other parties do anything different?

Really, do you think that the Liberals, NDP, or Bloc, were any better in all of this?  and if so why?  I really don't see where any of them have acted with any other motive that gaining and keeping power over the past few years.  So, please show me where the others have done this and the conservatives have been the overarching enemy you seem to posit them as.

I don't follow politics that much either Seeler and I sure don't want to vote again.  I don't ever seem to vote for anyone who gets elected.

Undoubtably Harper would like a majority, they all would.  No one would ever campaign to have a minority or to lose.  And right now Harper does have the most support.  Does that make him want an election?  I don't know.

I don't see the Government trying to force a confidence vote.  Ignatief and his advisores had all summer to figure out their plan and they started the fall with this posturing of no confidence.  Even before Parliament restarted, Ignatief was all over the news with his "no support " message.  I couldn't figure out the timing myself.  "no support" of what exactly, just a general plan???

They would only do that if they thought they would win.  Have they misjudged?  I think they have, the anti election backlash has been pretty strong.  Ignatief looks weak over it.  I had high hopes for him but have been disappointed in the lack of... well everything.

In reality, all ads you see, for everyone,  are at tax payers expense.  All the parties get money to operate so we support them all ( they get a certain dollar amount for each vote they get, so in that way, even if your person doesn't get elected, they at leasts get your bit of money towards their party.  That alone is a good reason to vote and not spoil your ballot, at least the person you want to win will get some money for their party)

It seems to me that is what is happening now.  The NDP have dropped their " we were elected to always vote no , regardless of why" retoric and so some compromise is being made.  Things are rolling along and some improvments are being made.  Not to everyone, for sure.  My hubby is out of work with no prospects in the future either.

 Unfortuantely, once you have more than two parties, it doesn't matter if the majority of Canadians don't want Harper.  What only matters is who gets the most.

If Harper gets 38, sure it means that 62 voted for someone else,but so what.  If the Libs get 30 and the NDP 16 and the Bloch 14 and the green 10 and the rhino 2 ......  It is still the largest number.

What I think happens here, in that the cafe, is that the cafe has a preponderance of NDP/green voters.  That causes a feeling of popularity for those parties that is not reflective of reality that most Canadians vote for either the Conservative Party or the Liberal Party.  To me they are for the most part pretty indistinguishable.  It is why I hoped that Ignatief would be a valid choice.

I hope we don't have an election.  There has been movement in the economy, the markets and some compromises are occuring.  It is what should happen with all governments, not just minority ones so lets hope it keeps developing.

I think the Liberals made a mistake when they had a coronation instead of a convention for Ignatief.  He didn't have to state his positions and get his party riled up behind him.  He still hasn't.