K0010's picture

K0010

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OBSERVER SUBSCRIPTION LEADS TO UNSOLICITED JUNK MAIL

I received a letter from an insurance company on Tuesday; addressed to Dear United Church Observer Subscriber. This letter tried to get me to change to that insurance company through the compassionate way they cared for those during the Toronto hurricanes. It was obvious they got my name and address from the United Church Observer subscription list; never mind how many trees were cut to send each letter and envelope to each family, but what happened to upholding values of caring for those who read your magazine and helping us keep our mailboxes empty of such garbage. 

Not Impressed in Ottawa
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K0010's picture

K0010

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Opps! I meant the  Toronto

Opps! I meant the  Toronto tornado that occurred last year!

DKS's picture

DKS

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I got the same letter. What's

I got the same letter. What's the big deal? I happen to be a client of Johnson Insurance and have been one for the last fifteen years. My wife is a medical professional and Johnson/Unifund offered the best package to her professional group. We have been through windshield replacement and an accident with them. I would describe their service as superb. Johnson/Unifund specialize in affinity groupings. That's their niche. I wouldn't change my insurer now, either.

 

Now if you really want to complain effectively, write to The United Church Observer. The Observer is independant of the United Church of Canada, so the church has zero say in this.

MorningCalm's picture

MorningCalm

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Aha! So now we see the true

Aha! So now we see the true colours of the United Church of Canada! Imagine sticking people with SPAM snail mail when they sign up for the official church news rag. For shame. You would never find us Fellowship Baptists taking part in such a scam.

DKS's picture

DKS

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match3frog. wrote: Aha! So

match3frog. wrote:

Aha! So now we see the true colours of the United Church of Canada! Imagine sticking people with SPAM snail mail when they sign up for the official church news rag. For shame. You would never find us Fellowship Baptists taking part in such a scam.

 

Sorry you don't get it. Companies sell their lists all the time. Someone has to pay the bills. Just recycle it.

RichardBott's picture

RichardBott

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 match3... did you read the

 match3... did you read the post right above yours?

 

The Observer is a separate entity from The United Church of Canada. Part of the reason for that is editorial integrity.

 

Having said that, I regularly check off the "please do not share my contact information with other companies" on my magazine subscriptions. Because I subscribe to The Observer through my congregation, I haven't had the chance to do that. I hope that The Observer is not selling (or giving away) my contact information without my explicit permission - since I have not been given the opportunity to opt out.

 

Christ's peace - r

RichardBott's picture

RichardBott

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 Just wandered The Observer's

 Just wandered The Observer's website, and can't seem to find anything about their privacy policies.

 

Christ's peace - r

 

trishcuit's picture

trishcuit

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RichardBott wrote:  Just

RichardBott wrote:

 Just wandered The Observer's website, and can't seem to find anything about their privacy policies.

 

Christ's peace - r

 

 

which may  mean they don't have one. 

DKS's picture

DKS

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trishcuit wrote: RichardBott

trishcuit wrote:

RichardBott wrote:

 Just wandered The Observer's website, and can't seem to find anything about their privacy policies.

 

Christ's peace - r

 

 

which may  mean they don't have one. 

 

They probably do, but why not ask? If you have a complaint, send an e-mail to the Editor, David Wilson, or the Promotions Manager, Sharon Doran, or the Director of Operations, Rev. Lee Simpson. You can send an e-mail to all three from here: 

 

http://www.ucobserver.org/contact/

 

 

GordW's picture

GordW

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Ummmm, if you have a listed

Ummmm, if you have a listed phone number in a phone book that includes addresses then your address and phone number are public info.  The only private info in that case is that you subscribe to a specific magazine.

 

But yeah, selling subscription lists is hardly unusual.  Annoying, yes, but not unusual.

seeler's picture

seeler

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match3frog. wrote: Aha! So

match3frog. wrote:

Aha! So now we see the true colours of the United Church of Canada! Imagine sticking people with SPAM snail mail when they sign up for the official church news rag. For shame. You would never find us Fellowship Baptists taking part in such a scam.

 

Frog - do you intend to be  rude and hateful?    If so, you have a problem.  If not, read your above post carefully. 

 

So now we see the true colours of the United Church of Canada!    I don't know about others but when I read this sentence I am almost sure that you do not mean it to be complimentary. 

 

Imagine sticking someone with SPAM smail.    I don't know how this insurance company got hold of the Subscriber list but my first instinct would be that it is computerized and they they hi-jacked it. 

 

. . . when they sign up for the official United Church rag.    Really Frog - you show your true colours and real brotherly love when you refer to another denomination's magazine as a 'rag'. 

 

you would never see us Fellowship Baptists taking part in such a scam.    And you would never see me insulting your denomination the way you have insulted mine.  Really, if I were you I would be ashamed of myself.

 

 

MorningCalm's picture

MorningCalm

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seeler wrote:. . . when they

seeler wrote:
. . . when they sign up for the official United Church rag.    Really Frog - you show your true colours and real brotherly love when you refer to another denomination's magazine as a 'rag'. 

 

And yet that's my true opinion of the magazine. And yes I've read more than a few copies.

 

Quote:
you would never see us Fellowship Baptists taking part in such a scam.    And you would never see me insulting your denomination the way you have insulted mine.  Really, if I were you I would be ashamed of myself.

 

From what experience would you be speaking? Myself I was baptized and thus saved in the United Church of Canada. I grew up in it, attending Sunday School, singing in choirs, reading Scripture, getting confirmed, participating in Family Cluster, etc. I have enough experience to speak on the United Church. Do you have on the Fellowship Baptist denomination?

K0010's picture

K0010

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This kind of conversation

This kind of conversation misses the point.  Most of us get the magaizine through our congregations' and we may or may not then send money to cover the costs therefore providing this information to all.  However, in doing so; we have no option of opting in or opting out of getting such junk mail that I recieved.  If I knew they were going to give my information away which is unlisted for personal security reasons then I would of unsubscribed myself from my congregations list years ago because now this company can sell my information once again, and so on.   It started as a gift from the congregation and now could end up risking my safety. 

This is the point, not the calling of others names.

seeler's picture

seeler

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Frog - I was going to give

Frog - I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt.  Now you admit to being rude and full of hate.  Yes, I am insulted and hurt by your remarks.   An apology is the only post that of yours that I will be replying to.

The_Omnissiah's picture

The_Omnissiah

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match3frog wrote: And yet

match3frog wrote:

And yet that's my true opinion of the magazine. And yes I've read more than a few copies.

 

Alas, reading is not reading if your eyes and mind are shut tight.

 

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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K0010 wrote: This kind of

K0010 wrote:

This kind of conversation misses the point.  Most of us get the magaizine through our congregations' and we may or may not then send money to cover the costs therefore providing this information to all.  However, in doing so; we have no option of opting in or opting out of getting such junk mail that I recieved.  If I knew they were going to give my information away which is unlisted for personal security reasons then I would of unsubscribed myself from my congregations list years ago because now this company can sell my information once again, and so on.   It started as a gift from the congregation and now could end up risking my safety. 

This is the point, not the calling of others names.

 

Unfortunately the Observer has updated it is website and the link for the subscription privacy policy is not available.

 

However if you subscribe on line the policy is as stated below

Privacy policy: Your personal information will be kept in strict confidence by The Observer, and will never be sold or shared with other parties or used to solicit you. The data collected here will be used only for administrative purposes by Observer staff:
 

I would suggest you contact the Observer directly and inform them of your concerns.

Contact The Observer

Address all correspondence to:
478 Huron Street
Toronto, Ontario M5R 2R3
(416) 960-8500
(416) 960-8477 Fax
Click here to contact us by e-mail

 

Canadian companies are ruled by the Privacy Act, however consumers should be aware that there are exceptions.

seeler's picture

seeler

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Would it be possible for

Would it be possible for someone from the Observer to post here and explain what has happened?    I got the letter, glanced at it, and recycled it.  I guess I didn't realize it was a big deal.  But yes, it is a big deal if the Observer is selling it subscription list without our knowledge and consent.  I don't need junk mail.  I don't need more paper in my recycle box. 

 

If this company wants to reach the Observer subscribers with a product or service that they think would benefit us and that we should know about let them buy a page of advertising in the Observer, not buy my name and address.

 

DKS's picture

DKS

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seeler wrote: I don't know

seeler wrote:

I don't know how this insurance company got hold of the Subscriber list but my first instinct would be that it is computerized and they they hi-jacked it. 

 

I would not trust your first instinct. As I said above, I am a client of this insurance company and have been for fifteen years. We went with them through my wife's medical professional association. Their rates have been excellent and their service exemplary. I would have no cause to believe there is anything inappropriate happening here.

 

Normally we receive exactly two mailings a year from Johnson/Unifund. That is less than we receive from Co-Operators, with which we also have insurance.

 

I have no idea why people are so reactive to such solicitations. Welcome to life in the 21st century. If it is of no interest to you, RECYCLE IT!  It is not an invasion of privacy nor a sign of the impending New World Order. It's a mail solicitation. I get more frequent ones and more annoying ones from hospitals that I do from this company.

DKS's picture

DKS

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seeler wrote: Would it be

seeler wrote:

Would it be possible for someone from the Observer to post here and explain what has happened?   

 

Why? They likely don't read here. How about someone stop bitching, being proactive and contacting them directly? Let them know your concern and share the answer. Are people too lazy? Contact information of where to e-mail has been posted TWICE in this tread.

MorningCalm's picture

MorningCalm

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seeler wrote: Frog - I was

seeler wrote:

Frog - I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt.  Now you admit to being rude and full of hate.  Yes, I am insulted and hurt by your remarks.   An apology is the only post that of yours that I will be replying to.

 

Oh grow up. I was giving my critique of a popular magazine. Are you saying one must be positive about the periodical in question or one is being rude and hateful. What a laugh.

DKS's picture

DKS

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seeler wrote: If this company

seeler wrote:

If this company wants to reach the Observer subscribers with a product or service that they think would benefit us and that we should know about let them buy a page of advertising in the Observer, not buy my name and address.

 

 

Please. This is the 21st century. Names and addresses are commoditites. There are tools we can use to reduce direct mailing. If you don't like it, contact The Observer and the Canadian Direct Mailing Assn. And while you are at it. contact Johnson/Unifund. let then know your feeling instead of kvetching in an internet forum.

 

BTW, did anyone get over their little hissy fit and actually get an insurance quote?

DKS's picture

DKS

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match3frog. wrote: seeler

match3frog. wrote:

seeler wrote:

Frog - I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt.  Now you admit to being rude and full of hate.  Yes, I am insulted and hurt by your remarks.   An apology is the only post that of yours that I will be replying to.

 

Oh grow up. I was giving my critique of a popular magazine. Are you saying one must be positive about the periodical in question or one is being rude and hateful. What a laugh.

 

Well, you are writing rude things about  the United Church Observer, absent any facts.

MorningCalm's picture

MorningCalm

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seeler wrote:Really Frog -

seeler wrote:
Really Frog - you show your true colours and real brotherly love when you refer to another denomination's magazine as a 'rag'.

 

You know, seeler, it's stuffed to the brim with liberal progressive theology. The only thing I used to enjoy reading from it was something called something like "Question Box"

 

At any rate, I do stand corrected on one thing. Apparantly the Observer is not an official publication of the UCC.

 

Still, it would be interesting to know how much opposition the UCC has raised, if any, against the magazine spamming people.

somegirl's picture

somegirl

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An internet forum is exactly

An internet forum is exactly the right place to talk about this so people know what they may be getting into, especially if they are not given the opportunity to opt out because they subscribe through their congregations.  I was thinking of getting a subscription and will not be now.  I've managed to avoid addressed admail except from Jack Layton and plan on continuing to do so.  The magazine has the United Church's name on it so it is a representative of the Church whether it is run by the church or not.  I guess the United Church now has the reputation that it is willing to sell it's congregants info for a quick buck because of it.

DKS's picture

DKS

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somegirl wrote: An internet

somegirl wrote:

An internet forum is exactly the right place to talk about this so people know what they may be getting into, especially if they are not given the opportunity to opt out because they subscribe through their congregations. 

Information in an internet form is worth exactly what you pay for it. Other than raising the initial concern, no one has bothered to report anything they have heard from the Obsever (if anyone has even bothered to ask).

Quote:
I was thinking of getting a subscription and will not be now.  I've managed to avoid addressed admail except from Jack Layton and plan on continuing to do so.

You have never been to a hospital? Made a charitable donation (even on line)? In time, your information will generate addressed admail or telemarketing calls. Your "footprint" increases as you get older.

 

Quote:
  The magazine has the United Church's name on it so it is a representative of the Church whether it is run by the church or not.  I guess the United Church now has the reputation that it is willing to sell it's congregants info for a quick buck because of it.

 

That's curious that you would draw such a conclusion without asking the United Church Observer itself what happened. I would hope you would be, at least, an informed consumer and consider all sides before making such a judgement.

DKS's picture

DKS

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match3frog. wrote: seeler

match3frog. wrote:

seeler wrote:
Really Frog - you show your true colours and real brotherly love when you refer to another denomination's magazine as a 'rag'.

 

You know, seeler, it's stuffed to the brim with liberal progressive theology.

 

Is that a problem?

 

 

MorningCalm's picture

MorningCalm

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DKS wrote: match3frog.

DKS wrote:

match3frog. wrote:

seeler wrote:
Really Frog - you show your true colours and real brotherly love when you refer to another denomination's magazine as a 'rag'.

 

You know, seeler, it's stuffed to the brim with liberal progressive theology.

 

Is that a problem?

 

 

 

It is enough of one for me to call it a rag. You of course, are free to call it the most splendid publication ever published.

mrs.anteater's picture

mrs.anteater

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Actually, I have emailed the

Actually, I have emailed the Observer and gotten a reply, which I will not publish here, as that person doesn't know I would do that. I was offered to be removed from the list immediately by emailing my full address, which I did. I would suggest, everybody who has concerns to do so as well.

I find it understandable that the Observer is looking for more finances- it had been way to cheap all along (compared to other comercial magazins). I just feel that considering the amount of articles about environment and Empire in the Observer, they should rather asked the readers to pay more and publish the calculation  how much this would mean per subscription.

DKS's picture

DKS

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mrs.anteater wrote: I find it

mrs.anteater wrote:

I find it understandable that the Observer is looking for more finances- it had been way to cheap all along (compared to other comercial magazins). I just feel that considering the amount of articles about environment and Empire in the Observer, they should rather asked the readers to pay more and publish the calculation  how much this would mean per subscription.

 

The subscription price went from $15 to $20 this year (25% increase, partially due to HST, I suspect). Still $5 cheaper than the Presbyterian magazine.

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