LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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Stop Rising Internet Usage Rates

A little background, I switched from my local ISP provider because of constant disconnect.  I went to Bell because I knew I would get a good signal due to their tower location.
BIG MISTAKE!

Bell has the lowest usage cap rates of any provider (although Rogers is really no different).  Pass that cap rate and the cost becomes huge - $300 per month actually.

I was aware of the cap and I specifically asked questions of the Bell salesperson when signing up.  I knew what my usage was and I was "assured" there would be no excessive charges.  I will not accuse that young man of lying, I suspect he truly was not aware because he was equally uninformed.

While this is of particular concern to rural users where options do not exist - its dial up or wireless - Bell is now starting to apply the same rules to its cable and DSL users - so beware.

I am switching to another local provider.  To give you an idea of the difference; with Bell my current cap is 3g of data with additional costs being added.  With my local provider (who has a tower very close to me) the cap will be 60g!  I have never used more than 15g.

The big telecoms, Bell, Rogers and Shaw lobbied to have this billing method applied across the board to all providers.  The smaller ISPs argued against it and the CRTC ruled it was unnecessary gouging.  Now the telecoms are taking a back door approach - hitting the local ISP providers.

Please take the time to read, sign the petition and pass it on to other users....

Background info Why Canadians should be upset about the back door Internet price hike
 

Petition No Back Door Price Hike

 

 

 

This comes at time when Canadians already pay some of the highest prices in the industrialized world.
      openmedia.ca

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SG's picture

SG

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We also switched to Bell

We also switched to Bell using a mobile device (stick). We had a sign up bonus usage for a couple months so we thought all was well. Our habits are always the same. We went over the cap as soon as that period was over. The bill was twice what we previously paid. We tried to get out of the contract to be told we were locked in. We bumped up to the next level of usage. It works for text only. So, we were ok... then my wife watched a cuple hours of tv she missed. We stayed under. Yippee! Not so fast, a month later comes the bill it is on, they are way behind....it cost  about $100 to watch 2 hours. We are locked into the contract for now, but as soon as we are not... I would rather have dial-up and that is just sad

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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I have rogers, LB, so how

I have rogers, LB, so how does this work? If I already have signed a contract, is there a clause that I missed that says they can arbitrarily change a contract without me agreeing?

I always thought that when someone changes something on an agreement that it takes both parties signatures to agree to change it? (contract law)

 

 

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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We have a package with shaw

We have a package with shaw which includes TV, phone and internet. My partner gets sent the bill electronically. I will ask him to keep his eyes open for unusual charges. I am quite sure he'd notice right away! We have had many service interruptions with shaw. I'd like request some money back actually. The internet goes down more frequently than it should and you can never get through to customer service when something goes wrong. I had to wait on the phone for an hour and a half listening to elevator music and commercials  once just to have them take about 30 seconds to remotely reset something with our TV signal.

 

These new usage charges are bound to hurt their @home business. People will just get used to using less at home. Businesses will soon get pretty grumpy too once the bills start rolling in. Many people work from home...and companies would likely have to foot the bill for that. I don't think it will last. Especially if it hurts commerce (the complaints of @home customers won't matter as much to them, but commerce, look out--I feel class action suits coming on!) I think will be challenged until it's changed back. Maybe one could say to them, "well, since I can't afford to use your services very often, I wasn't able to access the last bill you sent me." ;) In any event, this will cause an uproar once more people start getting billed higher and higher charges. Maybe it will force us to go back to not relying on internet unless it really counts (it wasn't all that long ago)...or using less of it at least.

 

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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Waterfall, I don't know if

Waterfall, I don't know if this is true for Rogers but I know some of the problem some people have here is that the cap was in the contract.  It was just in the fine print and it wasn't being enforced, but now they are enforcing it.

 

Personally, I am with Shaw.  I do not have a contract, but have a good rate with them that expires in October.  They have stated if you go over the limit they give you 2 warnings, but I'm not sure how long they will be warning people.  So far I haven't gone over though, so I'm not super concerned about my bill.

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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I can check the usage for my

I can check the usage for my past 6 months.  Off the top of my head, I wasn't sure what I had, but it's 250GB.  I reached half that once in the last 6 months.  I think when my husband was around it was about half that more consistantly, because he watches stuff online and games online way more than I do.

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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Speak of the devil, I just

Speak of the devil, I just got a pop up from Rogers that said I have used 75% or my 15g and they will let me know when I reach 100%. Dirty Rotters!

 

I think we should hire Qwerty and file a class action lawsuit on behalf of all Wondercafe users.

 

Seriously though, I am not computer savvy. My oldest son is a web designer and sometimes works out of his home, I suppose this will hit him pretty hard.

 

Now for those of us out of the loop, what are ways that I could keep my usage to a minimum. Do music video downloads increase the usage? Any advice from those in the know I would appreciate.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Oh, and I just thought...once

Oh, and I just thought...once it affects online banking, like if people stop using online banking services (many accounts and products are accessible online mostly..some exclusively), and they have to hire more tellers, I think it will be game over for the big internet providers with this thing! The banks trump them! ...oh, and if it slows down iphone business..apple will get testy too. Sad irony..but it might come true. Everyone large and small will fight them on this. Dog will eat dog (and the dogs will all lose), something will need to give, and ironically,  the average consumer might end up better off for it in the end. That's my prediction. I am not going to worry about it too much.

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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Waterfall, my understanding

Waterfall, my understanding is that videos are one of the worst.  Companies so far most affected are ones like Netflix.  Kimmio, I don't think online banking uses much data.  It's streaming that's the big issue.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Hey chemgal: I was just

Hey chemgal: I was just implying that this will slow down all internet business from average consumers. Eventually all the big businesses (and small ones) will be agitated about it. Seeing as everyone uses the internet,  maybe this will be an instance of fair capitalism where the big businesses can't rip off the consumer because they will hurt their own business by doing that, and their relationships with other big businesses...it will come back on themselves, and will drive the prices down.

 

Oh, and I don't know much about the stock market...but my guess is it will affect that negatively too...so they might regret this decision of theirs because they stand to loose a lot of money.

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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I don't think it's really

I don't think it's really going to affect all internet business though Kimmio.  I can see it affecting streaming video & tv shows, and also the use of portable devices as they tend to have lower limits.  Most home use (especially in a city, I realize rural areas can be different) has a high enough cap that typical use won't go over the cap.  Even with watching some tv online along with youtube videos (and hubby gaming when he's here) has kept me under 50GB.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Well it could, people like

Well it could, people like Waterfall's son, people who work from home.. and people who work remotely/ telecommute for big employers... it will hurt big businesses too because they rely most heavily on it...and heaven forbid anyone should charge them more!

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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I suspect big businesses also

I suspect big businesses also have large caps.  I also know that you aren't supposed to be streaming video at most businesses.  Even at the university, they do keep track of usuage (requires a password or else they can trace the office).  We have been given many warning emails about what is appropriate internet use and what isn't.  We aren't supposed to be listening to online radio, streaming tv, nor looking at youtube.  They ignore small discretions but people can lose internet privledges if they do it for hours.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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I realize...I am just being

I realize...I am just being idealistic. It helps me. :)

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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Oh, and I do work from home

Oh, and I do work from home sometimes, doing typical work won't make you reach the cap.  It may be different depending on the industry.  If someone is a film critic or possibly some times of web design if it involves a lot of sound and video or something like that it might possibly be an issue.  I don't have a problem with those people being charged more for internet though.  I would like to see a fair rate for them though.  They should be able to buy a package with a larger cap, and not have to pay overage all the time.

 

I also think that fair rates need to be made available to people in rural areas, as well as for portable devices.  I haven't read the article yet, but will get to it!

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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As with all things these

As with all things these days, the internet is no different. I think a lot of things will get tougher and tougher, financially and otherwise, and we will be up against more and more injustice..but people will self correct (with Divine intervention if you believe that)...and then things will start to get better. That is my hope. Hang on!

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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Ok LB, to bring this back to

Ok LB, to bring this back to the original topic a little more.  I'll admit that I'm not completely sure I understand the issue fully.  I'll write it the way I understand it, can someone correct me if something's wrong?

 

Their are major ISP providers, companies like Bell, Rogers & Shaw.  These are the companies that have the towers/satelites/cables etc. to provide internet service to large areas.  Smaller ISP providers use some of the infrastructure (maybe there's a better term?) from these large companies to service customers.  The big companies wanted to charge the small companies based on usage.  The CRTC said you can only charge based on costs, and not make a large profit off of them.  This is to increase competition in the market.  The big companies are getting around this by overestimating the cost to them.

 

Why can't these smaller companies just make their own system and not use the large companies' infrastructure?  Is the cost just too staggering to do so?  Is there some limit about how many towers/satelites etc the government wants around?

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Sorry, I went off track. They

Sorry, I went off track. They probably can't afford to upfront if they are subcontractors..but I don't know how it all works.

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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chemgal wrote: Their are

chemgal wrote:

Their are major ISP providers, companies like Bell, Rogers & Shaw.  These are the companies that have the towers/satelites/cables etc. to provide internet service to large areas.  Smaller ISP providers use some of the infrastructure (maybe there's a better term?) from these large companies to service customers.  The big companies wanted to charge the small companies based on usage.  The CRTC said you can only charge based on costs, and not make a large profit off of them.  This is to increase competition in the market.  The big companies are getting around this by overestimating the cost to them.

 

Why can't these smaller companies just make their own system and not use the large companies' infrastructure?  Is the cost just too staggering to do so?  Is there some limit about how many towers/satelites etc the government wants around?

To understand how this works, people need to understand Bandwidth and a little history about how the Internet works.

 

Back in the dinosaur days, when it was only dial up, bandwidth was also an issue. For simplicity I provide Wikipedia's description:

In computer networking, bandwidth in bit/s sometimes means the net bit rate (also known as peak bit rate, information rate or physical layer useful bit rate), channel capacity, or the maximum throughput of a logical or physical communication path in a digital communication system. For example, bandwidth tests measure the maximum throughput of a computer network. The reason for this usage is that according to Hartley's law, the maximum data rate of a physical communication link is proportional to its bandwidth in hertz, which is sometimes called frequency bandwidth, spectral bandwidth, RF bandwidth, signal bandwidth or analog bandwidth.

 

Some may remember those days when providers charged for usage - I was lucky back then as my server host was Ryerson and their data capacity was huge.  I had free service and endless capacity.  When I moved back to Muskoka there was only one provider - a local server host - it was then I experienced bandwidth restrictions and the costs.  It was, for example, impossible for me to utilize the *new* WEB due to the cost of  the bandwidth download requirements and was basically restricted to email.

 

In those days the restriction was due to the host's server capacity - their server's simply couldn't keep up.  With the explosion of data storage capacity that issue ended and suddenly there were "Unlimited" packages found every where. 

 

Today the issue is digital bandwidth and this has more to do with radio frequencies or the method that data is transmitted - think television or radio broadcasts.  Control of those frequencies are sold by the government and are done so on the basis of an auction; therefore the big telecoms can up the bidding price and then pass on the price to consumers - either smaller ISPs who buy blocks of frequency or individual consumers like you and me.

 

Regarding infrastructure:  In my area our local providers or consumers built their own towers (my former employer paid for two towers btw). They were able to obtain rights to the lower frequencies because at the time big telecoms did not want them - those lower frequencies are of no value to cell phone coverage because they have limited geographical coverage.  What is now happening is the big telecoms are going after all frequencies and this will impact those small ISPs who actually built the rural infrastructure. 

 

So the reality is, if, and this is a big if, there is a bandwidth hog on the loose its the Big Telecoms not the average user.

 

Again, think of television or radio, Canada built its communication backbone on the basis that *all* Canadians should have access.  However the frequencies were sold and thus the telecoms slowly built up their dominance and control.  The CRTC was created to protect Canadians from singular corporate dominance over what was an essential service - national communication.

 

As to what uses the most bandwidth ... those YouTube videos, watching the news, but also software upgrades including those automatic ones for Operating Systems, Virus protection and other programmes.  Oh and your email and the pictures your friends send you.

 

Every time I open a Wondercafe thread I am using bandwidth, the bigger the thread or the more pictures in that thread the greater the usage.  Every time I refresh the screen, preview my post to proof read I use bandwidth.  Even this post because I have blathered on so is gobbling bandwidth and right now I am paying for every kilobyte.

 

But this really is bigger than my having fun on Wondercafe, it will impact everything.  I am my Church's webmaster.  I do this voluntarily using my own equipment and connection.  Every time I upload data to their website I am eating into my bandwidth usage.  I also use my own time and service for the benefit of my employer to research new activities, information, etc, etc.  But it really is bigger than me and my rural compatriots.

 

Business use of the web has grown significantly (we could blame them for the increase in bandwidth) and their rising costs will be passed on to consumers as well.  Over time this will impact on our global competitiveness.  Canadians embraced the Net like no other country, per capita we have the highest number of users.  It is what keeps us connected to the world and that too is important.

 

If the big telecoms gain complete control over frequencies they will effectively put a stranglehold on all competition.  They tried to do this before with cell phone usage and the CRTC stepped in.  Now they are trying to do it with Net Connectivity.  They were stopped by public outcry before and they will be stopped again ... if there is an outcry.

 

Oh and if it helps to give a little perspective, the CEO of Bell personally made $4 million dollars last year; a fact that makes it impossible for me to accept any thing that company has to say about bandwidth expense.

 

 

Editor Note:  Any errors in this post are due to restricting my bandwidth usage.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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It is similar to my cell

It is similar to my cell phone then, I think.  I had a 5 year old sony erikson phone, with internet capability (but not wifi ).The  cell phone company (Rogers) would bill for every bit of info downloaded through them, which is expensive, so I  rarely used it, but I was just given a hand me down iphone ( I was in no hurry to get one but it was given to me  from someone who got the new version for Christmas)...so now, I will (still) be able to connect to wifi which is (for now) cheaper...but not for long... if they start billing for bandwith used, it will be expensive for whoever is providing the wifi signal from ther place of business...is that sort of it? For example, if that is the case, I imagine coffee shops will stop providing it free to customers as well..and more people will default to going through the cell phone provider instead of connecting to a wifi signal because will be expensive for the cell phone user either way.  Hmm. that won't be good.. More Rogers (or any big telecom company) users with ipones, for example, will connect to internet through Rogers also, rather than free wifi, thereby bringing them more business...which I guess they must have lost some of with the invention of samrt phones that pick up wifi...I am not sure, but could that be part of it? There are a lot of people using their smart phones at coffee shops, and all over, Vancouver--every second person at least, who will not be happy.

mrs.anteater's picture

mrs.anteater

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I suppose I have a slow

I suppose I have a slow version of internet connection from Eastlink- they offer faster speed, but then these would have a 250GB limit. When I read your posts here, I figure that they then would charge above that, too.

Bell Aliant has been coming around wanting to make people switch to their new Fibre Optic net, which is coming here in February. Again, their website says something about limit of 250 and a possible cap if you use it too much- it sounds to me that I better stick to my slow version instead of going with Fibre Optic- or will the limit for internet use and additional charges eventually come to all users?

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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Be very wary of Bell offers

Be very wary of Bell offers ... they start off great and then there is the little hidden line that says this offer is for 6 months then subject to change.

 

Also for wireless users they do not advertise the wireless rates on line, all rates are for cabled service.  Rogers does the same.  So you have to go into the store and be very specific in questioning them about caps and the extra usage charges.

 

 

 

Nothing is illegal if a hundred businessmen decide to do it, and that's true anywhere in the world.

      Andrew Young

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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Thanks LB!  I've heard of the

Thanks LB!  I've heard of the internet usage rates many times, but never saw an article where I felt like I was getting a good explanation.  So many people seemed against it, but I think many of them didn't fully understand the issue either.

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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And in related

And in related news....

 

 

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