Alex's picture

Alex

image

15 year old commits suicide. The community reacts, how would you react?

A week ago last Friday, an openly gay 15 year old in Ottawa, commits suicide, after posting a suicide note on his blog. 

 

How does thios affect you? What is your reation? What would you do if you had read his blog, after he posted his note?  

 

Here is what Jamie posted before he died.

 

http://catchmeblondy.tumblr.com/

 

Im a casualty of love.

Well, Im tired of life really. Its so hard, Im sorry, I cant take it anymore. 

       First Id like to mention my friends Nancy, Abby, Colleen, jemma, and Kasia

Being sad is sad : /. I’v been like this for way to long. I cant stand school, I cant stand earth, I cant stand society, I cant stand the scars on my arms, I cant fucking stand any fucking thing.

I dont want my parents to think this is their fault either… I love my mom and dad : ) Its just too hard. I dont want to wait 3 more years, this hurts too much. How do you even know It will get better? Its not.

I hit rock fucking bottom, fell through a crack, now im stuck.

 My favorite singers were lady gaga , Adele , Katy perry, and  Jessie james, Christina aguilara and most of all I think KASIA!!! I LOVED Singing, and she helped me a lot  : ) Im not that good at it though :”/, Im going to miss you guys

(well You know who you are, But to the people who didnt like me (many) A big fuck you, Go ride a unicorn. But w/e I love you anyway.)

Remember me as a Unicorn :3 x) MAybe in my next life Il be a flying squirreel :D

 Il fly away.

 

Share this

Comments

Alex's picture

Alex

image

Here is the statement from

Here is the statement from his father who is a local Ottawa politician.

 

Statement for Councillor Hubley on the passing of his son James

This past Friday, our family suffered one of the worst experiences that can happen to a family when we lost our boy – Jamie. To make this even more difficult, his death was a result of suicide.


I would like to thank all the family and friends that have been helping us get through these very difficult days. Very special thanks to everyone that came out in the rain to walk every foot of our community to look for our boy. The outpouring of support has shown us that our angel was loved by many and we were not the only people to witness his beautiful spirit.

Jamie was for most of his life a very happy and confident child. He was a compassionate person always looking to help others and didn’t have a mean bone in his body. Jamie often worked with me on community events and our many efforts to help others were made more effective with his ideas. From a very young age he wanted to make a better community and a better world.

 

He was a championship figure skater for years and was just beginning to excel as a singer. He enjoyed acting as well. He had a wide circle of friends and was involved in many different clubs and groups both in and outside of school. James’s family and friends unconditionally supported and accepted him for who he was and whatever direction he wanted to go in life.

 

James had been suffering with depression and was receiving care from doctors at CHEO and counselors. These professionals, along with James’s family and friends, were trying to help him learn to cope with his depression and other issues one of which was his struggles with his sexuality. He struggled with the idea that people can judge you harshly even when you are trying to help others. Jamie asked a question no child should have to ask – why do people say mean things to me?

 

Although James had a great many people who loved and supported him, something in his mind kept taking him to a dark place where he could not see the positive side of life, which lead him to this drastic and tragic decision on Friday. Jamie is free of his pain now and there is a new angel but we have paid too high a price.

 


There are some reports in the media and on social media that James was bullied. This is true. We were aware of several occasions when he felt he was being bullied. In Grade 7 he was treated very cruelly simple because he liked figure skating over hockey.

 


Recently, when Jamie tried to start a Rainbow Club at his high school to promote acceptance of others, the posters were torn down and he was called vicious names in the hallways and online. We had meetings with officials at the school and were working with them to bring an end to it but Jamie felt it would never stop.

 


We will not say that the bullying was the only reason for James’s decision to take his own life but it was definitely a factor. As his family and friends or even if you never met him but want to help, we must do whatever we can to wipe out bullying for any reason in our society and especially in our schools. Young people are very vulnerable and have enough pressures in life to have to deal with aside from the stress of being bullied. My family’s wish is that no more families have to suffer the unbearable pain of losing a child. No child should have to deal with depression or feel hated because of their beliefs – that is not the Canadian way of treating others.

 

Bullying doesn’t always take the form of physical violence. Especially today with cyber bullying on the Internet, children often feel there is no safe place to go; even when they are at home they can still be victims. Earlier I mentioned his posters being taken down. Many friends have offered to stand by the posters to ensure children that may want to meet and talk about issues that don’t harm others will be given the chance to do so. The school has made a promise to me that they will ensure the posters are protected. We hope from our tragedy others will become more active in stopping this cruelty towards children.

 

To this end, after my family and I have had some time to come to terms with the loss of our beautiful son James, I will be working hard to use my energy and public position to help bring awareness and resources to those groups working to stop the bullying and find a treatment for depression. Wendy and I have asked that all the people wishing to make a donation in Jamie’s memory can direct them to Youth Services Bureau’s Mental Health Walk in Clinic.

 


Over the years I have tried to help a lot of people and I was very proud that my beautiful boy was also learning the joy that comes from helping others. I need time to deal with the pain of not being able to save my precious boy and will speak more on his life and these issues later.


Kanata South Councillor Allan Hubley

Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2011/10/hubleystatement.html#ixzz1beDV2lar

Alex's picture

Alex

image

A Friend of Jamie posted this

A Friend of Jamie posted this memorial video.


 

 

Jamie Singing You are a Mean one Mr Grinch at a school concert last year.

 

 

Jamie singing Born This Way

 

Alex's picture

Alex

image

 Conservative Politcians

 Conservative Politcians posted this vifeo on you tube in memory of Jamie, on the day of his funeral. 

 

In the video is Vic Toews, who like many have been fighting against equality for LGBT people. And have said many mean and nasty things about LGBT people in the past.

 

 

 

 

Alex's picture

Alex

image

The UCC GCO realesed this

The UCC GCO realesed this stement on Jamie's suicide.

 

 

October 21, 2011

News of the death of Jamie Hubley in Ottawa highlights the tragic consequences of bullying that targets a person because of their sexual orientation. In a statement  released shortly after Jamie committed suicide, his father wrote:

http://www.united-church.ca/sites/all/themes/ucc/images/bkgd_blockquote.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; ">

“We will not say that the bullying was the only reason for James’s decision to take his own life but it was definitely a factor.…Young people are very vulnerable and have enough pressures in life to have to deal with aside from the stress of being bullied. My family’s wish is that no more families have to suffer the unbearable pain of losing a child. No child should have to deal with depression or feel hated because of their beliefs—that is not the Canadian way of treating others.”

The United Church extends its sympathy to the family and friends of Jamie Hubley. We pray that this tragedy will serve as a reminder to all of us that we must continue to publicly condemn discrimination against gays and lesbians.

For over 30 years The United Church of Canada has advocated for the inclusion of sexual orientation as a prohibited ground of discrimination in human rights legislation.

Just recently, on October 12, 2011, the United Church appeared before the Supreme Court as an intervener in the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission versus William Whatcott appeal.

This appeal arises from a human rights complaint that was filed in Saskatchewan against William Whatcott, an activist who was found guilty and fined for distributing anti-gay flyers that he said expressed his religious beliefs about homosexuals. That ruling was later overturned by the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal.

The position taken by the United Church in its intervention maintained that freedom of religion is not absolute, that it does not include the right to engage in religiously motivated hate speech, and it does not extend to conduct that harms or interferes with the rights of others.

The church’s intervention also addressed issues closely related to the underlying homophobia that fuels bullying of young people like Jamie Hubley.

In its oral presentation to the court, the United Church argued that hate speech causes real and lasting harm to its victims and to Canadian society.

http://www.united-church.ca/sites/all/themes/ucc/images/bkgd_blockquote.gif); background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: no-repeat no-repeat; ">

“To appreciate that harm, we must examine it through the lens of its victims. In this case, the victims are gays and lesbians, including gay and lesbian youth who may be struggling with their sexual identity. They are a vulnerable minority group.

The majority of gay and lesbian teens face bullying and harassment while at school, solely as a result of their sexual orientation. Throughout their lives they are at a higher risk of violent hate crimes, depression and suicide.”

In its written submission to the Supreme Court, the United Church said, “Hate speech encourages derision, hostility, and abuse of already vulnerable persons, causing them pain, indignity, and loss of self-worth. It encourages others to share in a hateful and discriminatory point of view, which damages Canadian society and threatens social stability.”

In conclusion, the United Church asked the Supreme Court to uphold hate speech provisions that seek to prevent harm and to confirm that freedom of religion does not extend to hate speech.

 
Alex's picture

Alex

image

For me this raises two

For me this raises two questions. What would I do if someone from my church or a relative posted a similar note on facebook, tumbler, or elsewhere. What could I do to stop his suicide.

 

Secondily, I ask myself, what would I do to make the world a place where youth do not suffer from bullying. What have I done that makes it worse, and what have I can I do to change?

 

It seems to me that these two questions are not addressed by the conservatives, nor the GCO of the UCC. Since our leaders are not answering these questions, what do you think we should do in response?

 

 

Elanorgold's picture

Elanorgold

image

That's a big question Alex,

That's a big question Alex, and I don't know what the answer is. It's a very terrible thing. So young. All I can think of is to be understanding and supportive.

EasternOrthodox's picture

EasternOrthodox

image

I don't know much about LGBT

I don't know much about LGBT issues.  Is there an LGBT hotline for young gays?  I think the young ones could especially use some way to talk to people more experienced in life.

 

It is a very sad story.

qwerty's picture

qwerty

image

I don't want Alex's posts

I don't want Alex's posts (and concerns) to be met (mostly) with silence.  Several thoughts occur to me ...

 

Lots of kids commit suicide.  I'm not really sure how much being gay contributed.  I think the core cause is being young and feeling unappreciated and uncertain.  Kids want to fit in and be accepted and, if they live long enough, they find that.  You don't have to be gay to feel you are different and an outsider.  Other causes are:

 

  1. perceiving yourself as too short
  2. perceiving yourself as too tall
  3. perceiving yourself as too smart
  4. perceiving yourself as not smart enough
  5. perceiving you are unable to meet the benchmarks by which you feel you are being judged (for instance as a figure skater, or as a singer or as a poitician/organizer like your sucessful dad)
  6. perceiving that there is no place for you ... no niche where you can put down your roots
  7. perceiving that all the good books have already been written and all the inventions invented
  8. ... the list is endless

 

 

Note how Jamie put a list of the musicians and "bands" he liked.  Seems like an odd thing to put in a suicide note don't you think?  It is an attempt to explain who he is.  It is an attempt to create an identity by borrowing from the identities of the various persons and groups listed.  It shows that the writer is both inarticulate and confused (or uninformed) about his own qualities (which are the very qualities that make his life worth living).  He doesn't really have a handle on who he is yet.  He has no real appreciation of what a loss his removal will be ... that is a "teen thing" not a "gay thing".

 

I read an article in the most recent number of (strangely!) National Geographic about the "teen brain". Clinical studies of brain development have shown (unsurprisingly) in the brain of a teen there is a disconnect between action and consequence, emotion often rules, acceptance by peers often trumps all.  Risk taking (and what is a suicide attempt but the ultimate in risk taking?) behaviour reigns.  Teens really are as "dumb" as they seem and given the state of development of their brains they really can't be any other way.  It is a dangerous age and everyone who survives it unscathed can count themselves lucky.  

 

It is too bad about Jamie (and every one of the many teens who commit suicide or die in adventures and misadventures that upon examination seem suicidal given the risks that the deceased was taking at the time of his or her death).  This boy looked like a person of promise.  Bright.  Talented.  I notice from his note, though, that he may have  become addicted to drugs (or perhaps he was just "cutting").  This is something to which the risk taking  of the teenage brain often leads and it produces outcomes and brain changes which contribute to suicidal thoughts.   

 

Much more must be done to "protect" teens but their risk taking and approval seeking ways amongst their own peers are essential parts of their development toward productive and creative adulthood and it will not and should not be denied.  In the end we can only try to "be there" for them.  It is a difficult assignment.  Unfortunately we will probably always continue to lose some along the way.

 

Unfortunately when you are young you don't know much because you lack experience and come to feel that the world (which is small for any 15 year old)  comes more or less as a "given"and will always be the same and that nothing will change.  Teen problems are not appreciated by the teen to be "short term" but are mistakenly seen to be "long term".  With this viewpoint, suicide (which is the ultimate "long term solution" if there ever was one) comes to be seen as appropriate.  For those left to mourn though, suicide remains a "long term solution to a short term problem" and this causes much pain and regret.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AaronMcGallegos's picture

AaronMcGallegos

image

    Hi - for those of you

 

 

Hi - for those of you who haven't seen it, the GCO put out a news release related to this tragic incident and the Whatcott appeal on Friday, Oct. 21.

- Aaron

--------------------------------------------------------

http://www.united-church.ca/communications/news/general/111021

GENERAL NEWS AND ANNOUNCEMENTS

Hate Speech Causes Real Harm

October 21, 2011

News of the death of Jamie Hubley in Ottawa highlights the tragic consequences of bullying that targets a person because of their sexual orientation. In a statement released shortly after Jamie committed suicide, his father wrote:

“We will not say that the bullying was the only reason for James’s decision to take his own life but it was definitely a factor.…Young people are very vulnerable and have enough pressures in life to have to deal with aside from the stress of being bullied. My family’s wish is that no more families have to suffer the unbearable pain of losing a child. No child should have to deal with depression or feel hated because of their beliefs—that is not the Canadian way of treating others.”

The United Church extends its sympathy to the family and friends of Jamie Hubley. We pray that this tragedy will serve as a reminder to all of us that we must continue to publicly condemn discrimination against gays and lesbians.

For over 30 years The United Church of Canada has advocated for the inclusion of sexual orientation as a prohibited ground of discrimination in human rights legislation.

Just recently, on October 12, 2011, the United Church appeared before the Supreme Court as an intervener in the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission versus William Whatcott appeal.

This appeal arises from a human rights complaint that was filed in Saskatchewan against William Whatcott, an activist who was found guilty and fined for distributing anti-gay flyers that he said expressed his religious beliefs about homosexuals. That ruling was later overturned by the Saskatchewan Court of Appeal.

The position taken by the United Church in its intervention maintained that freedom of religion is not absolute, that it does not include the right to engage in religiously motivated hate speech, and it does not extend to conduct that harms or interferes with the rights of others.

The church’s intervention also addressed issues closely related to the underlying homophobia that fuels bullying of young people like Jamie Hubley.

In its oral presentation to the court, the United Church argued that hate speech causes real and lasting harm to its victims and to Canadian society.

“To appreciate that harm, we must examine it through the lens of its victims. In this case, the victims are gays and lesbians, including gay and lesbian youth who may be struggling with their sexual identity. They are a vulnerable minority group.

The majority of gay and lesbian teens face bullying and harassment while at school, solely as a result of their sexual orientation. Throughout their lives they are at a higher risk of violent hate crimes, depression and suicide.”

In its written submission to the Supreme Court, the United Church said, “Hate speech encourages derision, hostility, and abuse of already vulnerable persons, causing them pain, indignity, and loss of self-worth. It encourages others to share in a hateful and discriminatory point of view, which damages Canadian society and threatens social stability.”

In conclusion, the United Church asked the Supreme Court to uphold hate speech provisions that seek to prevent harm and to confirm that freedom of religion does not extend to hate speech.

qwerty's picture

qwerty

image

The "It Gets Better" line

The "It Gets Better" line that is being repeated by the Conservative politicians above was coined by Dan Savage who began the "It Gets Better Project".  Dan is gay and remembered his own struggles, doubts, and fears as a young gay person.  He created his project to give gay youth the courage to push ahead.  The site opens with the words ... 

 

Many LGBT youth can't picture what their lives might be like as openly gay adults. They can't imagine a future for themselves. So let's show them what our lives are like, let's show them what the future may hold in store for them.

 

The idea was that LGBT persons could tell their own stories.  It was not so that conservative politicians with unsympathetic policies and views could "cover their tracks" with the public during a time of grief. 

 

"http://www.itgetsbetter.org/

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

I think the "It Gets Better"

I think the "It Gets Better" campaign is correct when it says many youth can't picture what their lives might be like.  This disconnect is not only felt by GLBTs, although it certainly is magnified in that group because of society's marginal recognition that they even exist, but by all young people.  It is the universal, biological, hormonal, societal, chaotic terror that propels us all toward adulthood.

 

I believe such campaigns will fail some because as Jamie says 'How do you even know It will get better? Its not.' 

 

When one is young there is no future; only tomorrow or the party next month or worse that math test you know full well you're going to fail because you were only thinking about that party next month and whether so and so will still be your friend when they find out you didn't invite them because you had that fight last week and like OMG! its all too late to change....

 

Everything is bigger than life when you are a teenager.  The good, bad, beautiful and ugly are magnified and amplified to rock epic proportions and it is all happening *now* not tomorrow or next year - OMG! by next year the whole universe will have changed and that is something terrifying to comprehend.

 

We adults don't help very much. Oh we say, it'll get better but then we worry about the mortgage, our jobs, our health, our relationships. What examples do we give other than, 'yeah, its better because it could be a whole lot worse'.

 

Before we can truly help the Jamies in our midst, we have to start seeing what *IT* is.  "IT" is us.  "It" is the world we are creating and, frankly, we adults have to get better; do better.  We have to prove to our youth that we are willing to make things better for them.  We have to stop making promises that we have no intention of keeping.  We have to embrace change so that young people will not be terrified of the many changes they will have to face.  In short, we have to grow up and assume the terrifying responsibility of adulthood so that our children eventually can.

 

 

LB

-------------------------

Sometimes I wonder if we shall ever grow up in our politics and say definite things which mean something, or whether we shall always go on using generalities to which everyone can subscribe, and which mean very little.

     Eleanor Roosevelt

Alex's picture

Alex

image

According to his father, his

According to his father, his suicide was not due to being gay, but one of many factors contributing to his suicide was bullying, for which he was targeted because he was gay.

 

It's unfortunate the GCO could not have issued a statement that asked UCC congregations to stop discriminatying against LGBT, and others, and to stop claiminging that LGBT are not good enough for God. While such theology can be held, in the eyes of a child, 12, or 15 it is abuse. As well those UCC congregations who just stay silent are also in fact helping bully's target their victims, but showing them that discrimuination, exclusion and hate is acceptable.

 

 

carolla's picture

carolla

image

Alex you asked - what would I

Alex you asked - what would I do if I saw such a post - I would contact police immediately & ask them to check on my friend as I suspected it was a suicide note - and they would do so.   In my area at least, such information is taken very seriously.

 

I was actually quite offended when I saw on the news coverage that the Conservative politicians were posting in "It Gets Better" - as far as I know none of them are gay, nor did they say so in their messages.  IMO they "used" the site inappropriately for political gain.  Disturbing and clearly they just DON'T get it at all.

 

Bullying, name calling ... gee, if our politicians were serious perhaps they could modify their demeanour in the House of Commons ... it's clearly a terrible example of all of this behaviour ... do they have any clue how they look???  Or who's watching??

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

carolla wrote: Bullying,

carolla wrote:

Bullying, name calling ... gee, if our politicians were serious perhaps they could modify their demeanour in the House of Commons ... it's clearly a terrible example of all of this behaviour ... do they have any clue how they look???  Or who's watching??

 

They are the IT and they are not getting better.

 

 

LB

------------------------

I think we're vastly over-invested in universities. ..... I think the vast majority of young people should be going through non-university, post-secondary training.

      Stephen Harper,  Sept. 15, 2000

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

image

as a parent of a kid who was

as a parent of a kid who was bullied RELENTLESSLY at an ottawa high school, i can tell you that the school board needs to get its head out of the sand and actually DO SOMETHING.  you can put up all the posters and have all the anti-bullying pep rallies you want, but unless you are prepared to do something concrete to stop the bully, its all nothing but hot air and bullshit.

 

which is what we discovered.  time and time again.  nothing ever changed, and ever single day my daughter was forced to attend classes with the girls who bullied her.

 

sadly, it doesn't surprise me that a kid finally packed it in.  what surprises me is that there aren't MORE. 

 

i'm saddened that nobody has stood up and said 'hey, why was this kid repeatedly subjected to this??'

qwerty's picture

qwerty

image

I have a couple of bullying

I have a couple of bullying stories, too.  Bully's were often attracted to my son.  He is quiet and has a gentle nature.  This is seemingly often interpreted as a sign of weakness.  The bullying ended when one day the bully got physical with him and my son called him out after school (In front of his friends so he couldn't refuse) at which time he used the guy's head as a punching bag hitting him so hard that he crushed one of his knuckles in the process.  The bully had to walk around school all bruised up for the next week or so.  The bullying stopped forever after that but it was too late because my son's experience and sense of high school (which grew into loathing) as a negative place was established and he was never able to alter that outlook and participate positively.

 

Another time my son witnessed someone else being bullied and assaulted and intervened and was as a result suspended for a week for fighting.  This pretty well killed any possibility that he would ever view high school as anything else but a place to be avoided.  He managed to get his high school diploma ... but just.  His older sister earned a PhD in French literature and teaches at a university.  

 

It is one my greatest frustrations that this bullying happened to him and had a negative effect on his life.  He was only able to get his diploma and went straight into the world of work where he felt freed and is conscientious and hard working.  Although he is extremely literate and the sort of person who when sent to rent a movie will come home with a Shakespearean play, so demoralized was he about his abilities as a student  that only now, almost ten years after graduation is he beginning to take some university classes.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi Alex,   Alex

Hi Alex,

 

Alex wrote:

How does thios affect you? What is your reation? What would you do if you had read his blog, after he posted his note?  

 

The note fits the description of a cry for help.  Admittedly, with one suicide prevention workshop under my belt I am not an expert.  That doesn't mean I wait around for someone with stronger credentials and more experience than me to do something.  I take action and if I've completely misread the note I can apologize for doing so later.

 

Personally, I hope I can clearly identify the owner of the blog and get help to he or she before they act on that cry.  If I can't, as is the case for most of us with this particular note and this particular child I lament that nobody got to him fast enough when it was really important that somebody got to him.

 

He was bullied, and that is wrong and always will be wrong and I wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone that it was wrong.

 

He was gay, and that is not wrong and never should have been considered wrong and I don't hesitate to tell anyone that it is not wrong.

 

He was struggling with depression.  Which is hard enough when you have nothing else on your plate.  I cannot begin to imagine how it would magnify the bullying and increase the suffering inflicted upon him because of who he was.

 

Nothing in this story is good or hopeful.  This is tragedy all around.  Maybe, somebody somewhere is going to do something positive and that will save another like Jaime.  This Jaime will still be dead and nothing is going to change that.

 

What makes this tragedy worse is that the jerks who bullied him will blame his death on his depression and not their bullying.  By taking his own life he gives them a free pass to continue to be the jerks that they have always been.  So the only thing that really has really changed is that Jaimie is dead.  The bullies have only been deprived a target.  I have no doubt they have many more lined up.

 

I suspect that there will be a lot of anger directed towards his known bullies and some who let that anger show will feel perfectly justified in going after the bullies.  If we are a graceless society then we cannot do justice, just vengeance and all that will do is broaden the scope of the tragedy.

 

So I mourn his death, resolve to be stronger and step right back into the flow.  There will be fresh tragedy to deal with in someway today.  Not a member of his family and naver a friend I'll eventually forget him and his story as it is buried under similar stories to his until eventually humanity is changed and those stories become a thing of the past.

 

Can I hasten the coming of that day?  Sure I can.  No matter how quickly I can make it happen it will still be too late for Jamie and others.  In the meantime Jamie becomes somebody else's banner for somebody else's agenda.  Maybe somewhere there is a way to redeem this tragedy.  I don't see it.

 

I thank God mine aren't the oly eyes looking for it.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

There is a lot of pain in

There is a lot of pain in Jamie's and his parents' story.  How painful life must have been for this child . . . and how painful for his parents to walk this path with him.  My heart goes out to all who knew and loved this young person and are now mourning his loss, missing him, and dealing with their grief in such a tragic death.

 

A wish, a desire, a want . . . that there would be peace and harmony between all persons on this planet and in every heart of everyone who inhabits it.  Hmmm - a tremendous amount of work to be done for this wish/desire/want to materialize.  Yay to the schools and educators who work hard at implementing and administrating anti-bullying programs.

 

A few above touched on the examples of the leaders in our country (politicians) and their words and actions in their meetings and interactions with one another.  I feel in both provincial and federal elections the words spoken about their opponents are not examples of respect.  Within work places, homes, churches, schools, there are adults who treat one another badly, disrespectfully, and in bullying manners.  Adults in all walks and areas of life need to change their behaviors to one another if we expect to set good examples for our youth.

 

"There must be lights burning brigher somewhere,

Got to be birds flying higher in a sky more blue,

If I can dream of a better land,

where all my brothers walk hand in hand,

Tell me why, oh why, oh why, can't my dreams come true"

                written by Walter Earl Brown, and made somewhat famous by Elvis Presley

 

A dream for peace . . . for all persons, all nations, in all hearts, in all lives . . .

 

Alex's picture

Alex

image

LBmuskoka

LBmuskoka wrote:

 

 

They are the IT and they are not getting better.

 

 

Sadly for Jamie, it will not get better. This  seems to be over the head of the tories who dedicated the It gets Better Video to Jamie. 

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

qwerty wrote: It is one my

qwerty wrote:

It is one my greatest frustrations that this bullying happened to him and had a negative effect on his life.  He was only able to get his diploma and went straight into the world of work where he felt freed and is conscientious and hard working.  Although he is extremely literate and the sort of person who when sent to rent a movie will come home with a Shakespearean play, so demoralized was he about his abilities as a student  that only now, almost ten years after graduation is he beginning to take some university classes.

 

I echo Qwerty's experience.  However in my son's case he couldn't hold on and remain in high school.  No matter what I did to try and build his self confidence it was shattered daily by the reality he faced and everyday I feared for my son's life. 

I was very aware of how fragile the will to live can be.

 

Perhaps this is why, so far, my son still lives.  Not because of my attempts at confidence building but because I recognized his fragility and I held on to him.  I stopped making promises that it would get better because we both knew that wasn't going to happen any time soon.   I stopped using my own experiences to bolster his self esteem because my reality was not his.   Instead I began to repeatedly promise that I would be there no matter what; if nothing else he knew he wasn't alone.  He knew there was one person that loved him always.

 

A shattered life takes time to rebuild.  It is a piece by piece process.  You think you have glued pieces together, but something happens, something small even, and a piece falls out and you start again.  It is frustrating, heartbreaking and exhausting.

 

Yet, every now and then something happens and the pieces hold.  When that occurs hope is renewed and you hold on for another day - not a week or month or a year, just a day.  You get a little stronger day by day and suddenly a year has gone by.

 

Our sons, Qwerty and mine, are the ones that do not grab the headlines but they are legion.  They are the lost boys of our society.  They deserve better.  Life is hard but it doesn't need to be so lonely.

 

Right now my son and I are in a hope period.  He is planning on going back to school in January.  He was planning on going in September but reality reared its ugly head and because of the Community College strike he was not able to register.  He managed to get a job and although sporadic is sticking with it. 

 

And this is life:  There is hope.  There is reality.  One day is better and the next it is not.  All we really can do is hold onto the pieces and see what tomorrow brings.

 

 

 

LB

------------------------------

I held a moment in my hand, brilliant as a star, fragile as a flower, a tiny sliver of one hour.  I dripped it carelessly, Ah! I didn't know, I held opportunity. 

      Hazel Lee

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

LB and qwerty . . . the

LB and qwerty . . . the stories and words you shared about your sons reminds us  that it doesn't end when high school does.  Perhaps that bullying of that time does, but the ramifications and scars of it continue.  How hard that must have been for you as parents.

 

 

EasternOrthodox's picture

EasternOrthodox

image

LB & Qwerty:   My son too

LB & Qwerty:

 

My son too suffered bullying.  My daughter has far more self-confidence (I think the different personalities are genetic--they are very close in age and I brought them up the same).

 

Lotsa problems, I hear you, folks.  My son is now 35 and seems (fingers crossed, wood knocked on, prayers said) to be--if not a roaring success--as least stable now.  His new wife is a very nice woman and they are both delighted with their young daughter.  My son has been working steadily for several years now.  (His wife works too).   His teens--I don't want to think about it.  I can scarcely bear to think about it...no judgment, got involved with seriously weird people, drugs, dropped out of high school (finally did finish after much delay...)

 

(Of course, as you know, I am willing to do my bit, letting them live with me, rent free--a happy marriage will help him stay on track).

SG's picture

SG

image

As a gay leader, I said years

As a gay leader, I said years ago when the "It Gets Better" campaign started

 

"It does not get better, unless we make it better".

 

Dan Savage's movement was to build hope, but for that hope to be maintained something else has to happen. The pledge at itgetsbetter.org is "Everyone deserves to be respected for who they are. I pledge to spread this message to my friends, family and neighbors. I'll speak up against hate and intolerance whenever I see it, at school and at work. I'll provide hope for lesbian, gay, bi, trans and other bullied teens by letting them know that "It Gets Better."

 

We provide hope by doing something....

 

If we do not pledge to do something, for many, it does not get better. They are bullied in school and then they are bullied at work or fired from jobs. Their folks find out and disown them....they cannot get married, they cannot be "out" at work, they fear for their jobs....

 

We have to take barriers down. You could not simply in 1960, show someone of colour an image of 2011 and say "it gets better".

 

Yes, kids are bullied and we have to make it stop. No child should be tormented.

 

Are kids at risk of suicide or violence? Yes!

 

Yet, this is more than "the bully" this one is "US". Our culture still bullies gay kids. It is depressing in a way a pimple is not.

 

"That is so gay"... find a new way to say something is lame, stupid, ridiculous... The worst insult we think we can hurl is about someone's sexuality. Ask any bullied child about it and you will find the weapons are well....me...

 

That bullied child- gay or straight- is called dyke, queer, fag.... That is the worst thing one can do, be or say someone else is? Really? In 2011, YES!

 

Quit beating each other up using us as your weapon.

 

Is it bad for ALL teens? Yes. In no way do I negate that.

 

I do however want people to know that our continued social stigmatization of homosexuality IS depressing. It is enough to make you believe it is hopeless.

 

Our continued social stigmatization makes more than just a comic contemplate that they would rather have a dead child than a gay one. Our continued "stuff" means people say they
"wish you wouldn't be, but..."
"I just know how hard it will be..."
"you can come to church here, but do not ask about getting married"
 

How is that better? How is that hopeful? When is normal?

 

It is also sadly not embracing.... it is accepting or resigned or "damn it, why does our world still have to be so messed up", anything but embracing. Our church is not even there yet.
 

 

Our society does not want to look at suicide and homophobia. Perhaps afraid of what it might find... (we tend to like our taboo topics undiscussed)

 

Look into or read Dead Boys Can't Dance

http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1690

 

This issue is not just about gay kids. This data is about ALL kids, YOUR kids.... when someone just thinking they might be gay, someone else thinking they are, accusing them of it, bullying them with it ... true or false.... when any of that could lead your child down the dark path of no return... this is a time for ALL parents to say "ENOUGH"

 

It gets better when we make it better.

 

 

carolla's picture

carolla

image

Amen SG

Amen SG

Pilgrims Progress's picture

Pilgrims Progress

image

Alex wrote:      Here

Alex wrote:

 

  

Here is what Jamie posted before he died.

 

 

I dont want my parents to think this is their fault either… I love my mom and dad : ) Its just too hard. I dont want to wait 3 more years, this hurts too much. How do you even know It will get better? Its not.

 

 

  

These sentences echo exactly how I felt when I attempted suicide in my early twenties.

 

How do I feel about Jamie's situation? I feel it's a bloody tragedy.

 

Why?  Because suicide in one so young is a tragedy because, with time,  that depressed young man could have gone on to lead a  generally happy life.

 

Please understand - I'm not blaming the victim.

I do know what it's like to feel that "life is just too hard, this hurts too much" and believing that things won't ever change.

 

His father mentions that he suffered from depression.

When one is depressed one feels totally inadequate to cope with life. All around you see others facing similar difficulties - being bullied, called names, not popular - but hey, they can deal with the abuse so much better than you.

 

This leads to you feeling even more inadequate..........

 

There comes a time when the pain is too much - you don't really want to die, but life is too painful.

You can see that you cause pain to the family that love you - and that too increases the pain and despair. Your thinking becomes distorted, and you convince yourself that not only you, but your family, will be better off...............

 

 

To those of you who are parents, grandparents, friends let your troubled family member/friend know that you love them - and just how important they are to you in your life. (I remember feeling  both shocked and confused when it finally occurred to me how devastating it would have been  to my family if my attempt had been successful.)

 

The lack of confidence and self-belief has to be tackled - not only by the troubled one, therapists, but by those that love them.

 

It seems like this young man's father was an "achiever". Of course, there's nothing wrong with that - but unfortunately this can unwittingly contribute to the  troubled one's sense of inadequacy.

As I've stated on previous threads, there is nothing that helps raise your belief in yourself than someone you perceive as being strong asks for YOUR assistance.

Looking back, I can see that I was on a treadmill of manipulating others to help me - when they would have helped me more by saying, "I know you're capable of managing that - but I'm always here for advice"..........

When folks always jump in and do it for you it invariably leads to reinforcing the view that all strength and power resides with them - and all weakness and inadequacy resides with you......

 

 

I, of course, didn't know this young man. Some of my perceptions are  no doubt incorrect.

But, having been in a similar situation of total despair, I do feel compassion for him - and others.

 

I know I'm one of the fortunate ones. I had a series of therapists, a family that I came to realise loved me in their own flawed way, and I was willing to do all I could to have a better life.

 

Since that time when I was young and troubled, I have lost the two people that meant the most to me with terminal illnesses.

This has reinforced to me the value of life - and what a tragedy it is when folks are so troubled that they would choose to end it by their own hand.

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

SG wrote:   That bullied

SG wrote:

 

That bullied child- gay or straight- is called dyke, queer, fag.... That is the worst thing one can do, be or say someone else is? Really? In 2011, YES!

 

Quit beating each other up using us as your weapon.

 

This I believe is the one thing that often gets lost in the discussion.  Who encourages this behaviour in children:  I'll tell you it is adults.  It is entrenched in our culture, in our media,  jokes,  music and speech.

 

Childhood and adolescence is a time of identity confusion.  No one really knows who they are but they do know what everyone keeps telling them they are.  Into that state of confusion slurs are hurled that attack identity and regardless of orientation the pain those words cause can morph into a generalized hatred of persons who are being used as the weapon.  The damage taints all involved.

 

I still remember being called a "nigger lover" in grade school - not by my classmates but by a teacher!  Why, because I pointed out that that teacher was being cruel to the one poor black child that was exiled to our rural backwater.  Even as a child I knew that poor boy was totally alone in an alien world and the very adults that should have been protecting him were not. 

 

When adults permit this type of behaviour, either overtly like that teacher or worse by silent complicity, it sends a strong message to a child.  For many of the children around me at the time of that incident it granted permission to them to treat that "different" child with contempt.  It wasn't long before that 12 year old boy tried to run away and instead of being offered compassion he was locked up in a juvenile detention centre.  All of us learned a lesson and it wasn't a good one.

 

The people that need to get better are not our children.  We have to stop putting all the onus on them to clean up the mess we create and perpetuate.  Hatred is not genetic, it is learned and it is learned from adults.  Children emulate the adults in their life and will continue to do so unless they suddenly realize those adults have it all wrong.

SG wrote:

Look into or read Dead Boys Can't Dance

http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1690

 

This issue is not just about gay kids. This data is about ALL kids, YOUR kids.... when someone just thinking they might be gay, someone else thinking they are, accusing them of it, bullying them with it ... true or false.... when any of that could lead your child down the dark path of no return... this is a time for ALL parents to say "ENOUGH"

 

It gets better when we make it better.

And it will only get better when we realize that it is never about "them" it is about all of us.

 

 

LB

------------------------

We accept the love we think we deserve.

      Stephen Chbosky, The Perks of Being a Wallflower

SG's picture

SG

image

LBmuskoka,   It certainly

LBmuskoka,

 

It certainly is an us/we... and not a them.

 

Kids are a clean slate, what they know we generally teach them. Have you read "The Help", I did and found much resonating in me.

 

Children love me.  I love kids. I am a big kid. They accept without question that I love another woman and that I am a boy, but a different kind of boy. Then a day arrives, one I wait for in dread- because no matter how hip or with it or liberal or cool their parents are, no matter how much they adore me, the world has them. They will ask either,  "Is ___ short for ___?" or something that says "they are influencing me". I can see it when they are embarrassed by my presence. Not always because other kids care, but others kid's parents care.

 

School was horrible for me once kids reach the age of "society has them". I went from being everyone's friend when girls and boys thought the other was gross...to being pariah and I knew why.  Teachers and parents not only allowed it but they also did it, they encouraged and instigated it. I recall telling a fourth grade teacher that nobody would play with me at recess and she said, "How are they supposed to? Boys play with boys and girls play with girls and you are an IT!". I had a sr. high math teacher say something about not getting our tests graded and about feeding her husband and that when the girls got husbands they would understand and she added, "or in the case of ___, when she gets cats".  I recall a woman and a man sitting on their stoop while two neighbourhood boys in high school beat my grade school ass. They did not just sit their minding their own business,or thinking kids will be kids,  they cheered them on that "if she thinks she is a boy, let her learn to fight like one" and hearing adults yell "kick her ass" hurts in ways I still have no words for.

 

We take part in this messed up world we live in.

 

The sad part is that my rural Pennsylvania high school's faculty had a significant gay and lesbian presence. We were small with about 45 grads a year (25 or so of that 45 went to the tech school we partnered with). In that faculty was a gay economics teacher, a lesbian English teacher, a lesbian phys ed teacher and a lesbian math teacher. I went back years later and asked questions. They could say nothing or be "outed" and in some cases, they made my life worse so that nobody entertained the thought that they might be. Other students later came out.

 

Truth be told, ALL folks are influenced by society. GLBT folks can have internalized homophobia, they can have a past that involved bullying others regarding identity.

 

Not many would use the phrase you were called anymore, LBmuskoka. The reason is not that they might not think it or feel it, racism is certainly alive and well....but saying it... saying it in that way requires them to show who they are in a world that is not like them or not so publicly.  Even David Duke put on a dress suit and put away the bed linens when they went out of style.

 

People will quit being homophobic when it is no longer cool or accepted or laughed at....

 

It gets better when we get better.

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

Awful, disgusting, mean,

Awful, disgusting, mean, hateful, and way out-of-line, are not even strong enough words to describe what some of the adults in your life said to you SG, or allowed to happen to you (or for the comment that LB's teacher made to her.) 

 

I'm sure that there are many people who think like that, speak like that, and live their lives like that though today.  But I'm hoping (and  hopefully I'm not being too naive) that things are changing somewhat.  That each moment, each day, one biggoted mind, and one hate-spouting mouth is being changed.  I know for the person/persons who are still being bullied for being who they are, that is not enough.  That progress is too slow.  But I'd like to think it is getting better.

 

I was in a store in the city a few weeks back, in one of those shops that sells kitchen items.  There was a young couple in this particular store who were shopping for an item, possibly for their home now or a future home.  As they did so, they spoke very tenderly to one another as they discussed their wants, and held hands as they did so.  They were two young women, perhaps in their twenties. 

 

In that moment I was so thankful . . . for wondercafe, for the many who share their personal stories through books, tv, and other media . . .  I was so thankful for the fact that at some point in time, many years ago, questions were formed in my mind - that I began questioning things I had been taught about GLBT persons - by the church, by ministers, by others, by society.  I was so thankful that as I began to question God and myself over the years, that I was led to books published by places like the UCC, that Wondercafe was initiated and very brave people shared their lives and truth on it, that television shows were starting to tell stories about the lifes of GLBT folks.  All of these, and others,  were things that changed my mind about all I had been taught about people who were different from me (I might add taught within the church as an adult, because my parents and home life did not teach me that as a child).  And in seeing these women openly and freely sharing their love (and possibly commitment to one another) in a guesture of holding hands as such, I was thankful, that I looked at that guesture, and the people, the same as I would have if it had been a young man and a young woman.  I could not say I would have felt the same reaction 15 years ago.  While I would not have done or said anything, I know I would have been thinking something.  I am so thankful I am not where I was those years ago.

 

Society/we will be changed one mind at a time . . . not quickly enough for Jamie, not quickly enough for others who can't take one more second of one more day.  But change is happening - TBTG!

 

 

 

 

SG's picture

SG

image

Beloved,   First, let me

Beloved,

 

First, let me wipe tears...

 

Your testimony is as valuable as anyone elses you are thanking.  You see, it is in admitting that we once felt "another way" or "changed" that hope is kept alive and change is seen as possible.

 

The words people said to me all those years ago hurt. I cannot lie and say they did not. Yet, the silence was more deafening. You see, I knew I was not going to change and I thought they would never change and that makes it hopeless.

 

I thought they (the bullies) grew up and would hire me, be my coworker, my landlord.... they would follow me thoughout all my days, for the rest of my life. I thought that the darkest hours of youth would not get brighter.... and nobody handed me hope.

 

I thought the names they called me would never end and their torment be something I always endured, until I died. Whether you live until old age or chose to die young...

 

I did not know better and nobody was teaching me better. I knew I was not changing and nobody told me they might- they just might. They do every day. They do in small subtle ways and in big dramatic ways...

 

When we "used to be" something, we can like to pretend the past never happened. We do not say to a young gay person, "Listen, I used to be as ignorant as they are. It gets better because we learn better. I did." (that "I" can be personal, the church, a family....)

 

 

Thank you, Beloved.

 

Thank you for smiling at those young women, but thank you for your words that highlight hope and that change is possible and words that resound with love..... all things that shine in darkness....

 

 

 

Pilgrims Progress's picture

Pilgrims Progress

image

I admire LB and SG for the

I admire LB and SG for the strength of their moral convictions.

 

I have an inner core of fragility - which, in all honesty, sometimes makes the moral way difficult for me to achieve.

 

Morality was emphasised in my family. My Dad came from Scottish Presbyterian stock and my Mum's Irish great-grandfather went to the West Indies to teach the freed slaves English.............

 

 

These school stories remind me of a painful incident in High School.

Back then (in the 1960's) in Oz intellectually challenged kids attended the mainstream school. (there was nothing else). I remember we called them "slow learners" then.

 

Once I noticed these boys and girls gathered around a "slow learner" laughing and pointing at her.

I soon saw that she had her period and there was blood on the back of her uniform.

I grabbed her by the hand - took her to the girl's toilet and told her to stay there until I returned with a pad.

 

 

Did I feel good about my actions?

No. Not really.

After that she followed me around the school - and I was taunted with "who's your smelly friend?".

To my shame, I asked her to leave me alone.......

 

At that time I was fragile, thought "odd" - except when I played sports for the school.

More than anything, I yearned to be popular - to be part of the "in crowd".

 

With hindsight, I can see that although the "slow learner" was the most fragile - so was I - and so was the taunters.

 

A strong sense of ethics and morality IS important.

 

But, IMO, until we has a society address the wider implications of fragility - often an underlying cause of bullying in any form - we won't make progress.

 

Sadly, there will always be more folks out there that are either damaged or fragile than those who are strong...........

 

 

 

 

SG's picture

SG

image

As I typed about GLBT kids

As I typed about GLBT kids bullying regarding anothers identity, in an effort to deflect attention being paid to them,  I should have expounded.

 

Many kids who bully do so for reasons that make them as much victim as perpetrator. Victim and perpetrator, so fluid as people often move from one to the other.... Whole nations or individuals....

 

One needs look no further than the abused who then abuse....

 

One kid who taunted me used to get the crap beat out of him for not being man enough to suit his old man. A girl I knew who used to not be able to fight off her uncle took it out on all around her.

 

I developed quite a chip on my shoulder in late teens and early adulthood. I tell people I was nobody they would have liked. I was likely to say "what are you looking at?" before anyone had a chance to give me trouble...

 

As a youngster I pounded on my siblings because I could not pound on my mom. I live with the knowledge of that...

 

There is an Amanda Marshall song, "Everybody's Got a Story".

 

Often, a person who needs to diminish another has an issue with self...

 

There is a ton of healing that needs done.

SG's picture

SG

image

Again, PilgrimsProgress,

Again, PilgrimsProgress, thank you for being honest in telling your story and showing that this kind, caring, loving woman we know was once someone who asked a slow, lonely girl to leave her alone rather than face the scorn or taunt of others....

 

People can change, life can be better... when you feel you cannot hold on, be held on to.

 

Hope... if each of 7 billion people did one thing....

 

 

Pilgrims Progress's picture

Pilgrims Progress

image

SG, If only it were

SG,

If only it were so............

I still have further to travel down that particular road.

 

I'm sometimes kind, caring and loving - but I still have those insecure moments when I reveal my shadow...........

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

PP, just like me, and

PP, just like me, and everyone else on this planet . . . you/I are a work in progress, God isn't finished with you/me yet . . . but look how far you've/i've come.  While perhaps you feel still fragile and damaged in ways as that young school girl was, I think you are stronger and wholer than you were in your youth.  TBTG - we don't travel alone . . . I believe God and others walk with us.

 

 

 

 

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

Thank you, SG, for pointing

Thank you, SG, for pointing out that there are ways that I can make a difference smiley.

 

arachne's picture

arachne

image

Whenever someone, especially

Whenever someone, especially someone with a previously existing mental illness like depression, talks about suicide directly, it is an emergency situation, and expert assistance is needed now, not tomorrow. If a less direct statement is made, like "hit bottom and I've been down there a long time now", you need to ask your friend, relative, or church brother or sister "Have you thought about ending your life?" You won't put ideas in their head if they're not thinking about suicide, and it may be a relief to discuss and a reason to seek treatment it if it's something they've ever considered, or a lifeline to emergency assistance if it's something they have got to the point of desperation of at this time. Suicide is a very badly understood phenomenon in society, perhaps because it's still so rarely talked about. Here's a good informational website:

http://suicideinfo.ca/

EasternOrthodox's picture

EasternOrthodox

image

I can still remember a

I can still remember a teacher bullying a whole segment of his class (circa 1964):

 

They had us seated in English class according to how well we did on exams.  He went on a rant about the "ones in the middle".   He was a horribly mean man.  I don't remember the words he used but I can still remember the event, 47 years later.

 

(Note: I was in the middle group)

SG's picture

SG

image

PilgrimsProgress, I recall

PilgrimsProgress,

I recall once saying something to the effect that "we all have a shadow side" and the person I was talking to thought I meant S&M or some kind of kink  LOL

 

Beloved,

There are ways every single one of us can make a difference.

 

EasternOrthodox, 

We hear all the time how harmful and scarring emotional abuse is, we do not tend to want to believe it. You recall that because of being the target, the middle group. It warns another teacher, it helps another student....it teaches empathy....

 

If each of us was willing to be vulnerable, without all the posturing, the playing things up and playing things down, the attempt at illusions of perfection and all the damn pretending.... to be real... to show our humanity.... to let the Spirit move between us and through us.... 7 billion people might see 7 billion other people....

 

It never hurts to dream....

 

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

SG wrote: If each of us was

SG wrote:

If each of us was willing to be vulnerable, without all the posturing, the playing things up and playing things down, the attempt at illusions of perfection and all the damn pretending.... to be real... to show our humanity.... to let the Spirit move between us and through us.... 7 billion people might see 7 billion other people....

 

It never hurts to dream....

 

Beautiful dream.

 

We can make it a reality.

 

 

LB

-----------------------

I have accepted fear as a part of life - specifically the fear of change.... I have gone ahead despite the pounding in the heart that says:  turn back. 

     Erica Jong

EasternOrthodox's picture

EasternOrthodox

image

Do gay retirement communities

Do gay retirement communities exist in Canada?  Would they be only for the better off?

 

They are having trouble in the US, according to this articles, because the financial crisis has crashed the value of property.

 

Raises some interesting points, including how unwelcome gays feels at some regular retirement communities.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/29/us/gay-retirement-communities-struggling-in-the-recession.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha23&pagewanted=all

Pilgrims Progress's picture

Pilgrims Progress

image

SG wrote: If each of us was

SG wrote:

If each of us was willing to be vulnerable, without all the posturing, the playing things up and playing things down, the attempt at illusions of perfection and all the damn pretending.... to be real... to show our humanity.... to let the Spirit move between us and through us....  

Well said, SG, - and more importantly you "practice what you preach".yes

 

Your lack of posturing and your willingness to show your human vulnerability make you seem more "real" than many one encounters in so-called real life.

 

A koala stamp (the highest accolade in Oz) for just being you.......

Beloved's picture

Beloved

image

SG wrote:   If each of us

SG wrote:

 

If each of us was willing to be vulnerable, without all the posturing, the playing things up and playing things down, the attempt at illusions of perfection and all the damn pretending.... to be real... to show our humanity.... to let the Spirit move between us and through us.... 7 billion people might see 7 billion other people....

 

It never hurts to dream....

 

 

This spoke to me - I give a yes, too!  smiley

SG's picture

SG

image

Sheesh, way to make me feel

Sheesh, way to make me feel like I need to kick the dirt and turn red....

Then, I cannot even say thanks... I mean, for what, being or admitting that I am human?  LOL

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

This is how they react in

This is how they react in Holland...

 

 

In any language, hate is hurtful.

chansen's picture

chansen

image

In Michigan, a new

In Michigan, a new anti-bullying law just enacted was modified to include a section that...

Quote:
...does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian.

 

So, if you're in Michigan and you are a student, volunteer, parent, teacher or a principal, you can bully a student all you want with your "sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction".  Guess who wanted that language included?  The American Family Association of Michigan - a religious group.

 

Quote:
Democratic Leader Gretchen Whitmer accused her colleagues of creating a blueprint for consequence-free bullying. “As passed today,” said Whitmer, “bullying kids is okay if a student, parent, teacher or school employee can come up with a moral or religious reason for doing it.”

 
How do religious group react to homosexual kids committing suicide?  By protecting the rights of the bullies.
LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

Chansen, fortunately through

Chansen, fortunately through pressure that "exemption" clause was removed....

 

Michigan's 'Matt's Safe School Law,' Anti-Bullying Legislation, Exemption Dropped By Senator
 

However, as one activist said, it won't be effective.  Legislation against anything only takes effect *after* the event, thus does not prevent bullying.  There needs to be a profound shift in our culture's attitude toward how we deal with others, particularly those who differ from us either physically or culturally.

 

We live in a society that promotes a dog eat dog mentality where any sign of weakness or vulnerability is a permit slip for attack.  As long as aggression is rewarded it will remain.

 

 

LB

-------------------------

It is said that power corrupts, but actually it's more true that power attracts the corruptible. The sane are usually attracted by other things than power.
      David Brin

chansen's picture

chansen

image

That is a relief, but what it

That is a relief, but what it shows is how some religious "family values" organizations support bullying of gay teens.  I agree, legislation is hardly going to enter the minds of the bullies, and the damage will have largely been done once action is taken, if ever.

 

And bullying took place long before we could be considered a "dog eat dog" society.  If parents aren't stopping their own kids from being bullies, we need a larger school and community response.  We aren't going to get it from religion.

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

Oh I have no doubt that some

Oh I have no doubt that some who claim religious piety use that position to bully specific targets.  What I do not accept, because personal experience has taught otherwise, that such behaviour is unique to the churched.

 

The human race, IMO, has never had a time when it was not dog eat dog - we have had brief moments of experimentation with a more benign existence but have, so far, not been able to sustain the ideal on the grand scale.  People tend to treat others as they are treated - each targeted individual will target their persecutors.  For protection the individuals form groups - security in numbers - these groups then perpetuate the aggression, and the next targeted group repeats the behaviour.  On and on it goes.

 

The only way to ever come close to the ideal is by rejecting the concepts of superiority of one group, culture, nation, whatever one's preference is, over another's.  That notion is, of course, an exercise in superiority as well in that it will reject those who do not participate, but it is one that will permit a more compassionate and free society where each of us is allowed to be who we want to be as long as doing so harms no other.

 

For those of us lucky enough to find ourselves in a reasonable democratically governed environment, each of us has to recognize that we play a role in how that environment functions.  Each of us has to accept our individual responsibility in whether the behaviour is nurtured or not.  We can not blame others for a behaviour if we participate in the same with only the target being different because it is the behaviour, not the person or group, that is the root of the problem.

 

In the Michigan example, one individual or group, tried to impose their viewpoint on the whole.  They were denied by individuals from all walks becoming a collective and saying loudly enough that that viewpoint was not acceptable and btw that collective was not just in Michigan I was invited and added my voice to an international petition against the clause.  A diverse group of Individuals came together, exerted pressure and changed the course; this is the only way that cultural change can be, has ever been, created.

 

We, you, me, the people in the church or not, create our world.  We shape our governance, religious or civic, to fit our purposes and those purposes are created by our daily interactions with one another; they grow or die by what we, collectively and individually, support.

 

 

LB

----------------

Hands up, anyone who thinks you've got it right.
Yeah, there's always one.
I can see you.
If you want the position of God, then take the responsibility!

     Orbital, You Lot

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

This is what a 17 year old in

This is what a 17 year old in Etobicoke did and the result ....

 

The video was Jacques St. Pierre’s idea. The 17-year-old senior and student council president had written to a number of entertainers, including Ellen DeGeneres and Katy Perry, to get them to send a video in support of the anti-bullying campaign.

 

“I basically sent hand-written letters to them, and I found all of these addresses from a website,” St. Pierre said. “But I don’t know if it was a reputable source. So I don’t know if they all got them, or maybe they haven’t read them yet. Her [Lady Gaga’s] address happened to be right.” 

 

Globe & Mail Lady Gaga sends Toronto school a personal message of tolerance

 

 

Be the change you want to see in the world.

     Mahatma Gandhi

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

image

And more wisdom from the

And more wisdom from the young...

 

**************************

This is what bullying feels like (click title for full article)
kate hammer
From Saturday's Globe and Mail (includes correction)
Published Friday, Dec. 02, 2011 10:12PM EST

 

Every year in Canada more than 200 teenagers feel alone and scared enough to kill themselves. For many, including Marjorie Raymond, life has been made unbearable by bullies.

 

The 15-year-old Quebec teen's suicide earlier this week, and the apologetic note she left for her mother, have prompted the province to review anti-violence programs in its schools. In Ontario, where two other tormented teens recently took their own lives, policy makers and educators are considering new laws that would create tougher consequences for bullies.

 

A 2009 survey by the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health found that one in three students is bullied.

 

The ratio is even higher at the East Alternative School of Toronto. Many are here because their previous school had become a living hell, a place where they were taunted, picked on, beaten up or just ignored.

 

The 68 students in Grades 7 and 8 are the ages where research shows bullying is at its peak. The school provides something of a safe haven – a specialized school with a focus on social justice in which bullying is given as much attention as dodgeball or long division.

 

The Globe and Mail asked students to share their thoughts.

 

WITNESSES

[...]

Justin Vriend

Few of us can say that we are not witnesses. Not bystanders. Witnesses, I have had the privilege of being safe from much bullying. I have always been one of the tallest students in my class. I am white. I have high grades. I have no allergies, disabilities or mental handicaps. I am very lucky.

 

I have, however, stood next to the bully and did nothing. I have hidden behind a half-hearted grin, afraid to stand up lest I be the next victim. There’s the key word. Afraid. Fear of children my own age.

 

What world is this that playgrounds have become killing grounds. The murder of hope, love, creativity, passion, ingenuity, individually. This goes unpunished. Unnoticed. Why? When these die, our very person dies.

 

How do children’s executions come without a herald? Fear. Adolescents, children, minorities, even majorities. These get picked out of the crowd like slow calves by unprovoked coyotes.

 

I am overjoyed that the few wolves from my old school did not find their ways to this new haven at EAST. I feel safe here. Safe in the knowledge that no matter how hard a wolf nips my toes, the shepherds will protect me.

 

Hundreds of suicides happen every year because bullies are not banished from schools. Students’ don’t feel as if adults can make things happen and there is no anonymous reporting system. Shepherds, up your game across Canada.

[...]

 

*********************

Back to Relationships topics