DaisyJane
would you wait? second time around?
Posted on: 07/08/2010 12:34
Chemgals thread about waiting for marriage prompted a question for me? Say, for whatever reason, you found yourself single in your forties or fifties. Perhaps, very sadly, your spouse has died prematurely, or your marriage ended. You are an adult, have kids, and a busy household and life. You have become involved with a man or woman (you choose!) and are in love. The relationship is deeply meaningful and monogamous. However, because of the complexities of blending households with teen children you would like to defer marriage for several years (maybe a decade, even) until the teens are heading off to university or out in the workforce. You feel that blending households while your teens are at home and still greiving the loss of their parents marriage or their parent (in the event of a death) is not in their best interest. You feel maintaining two households where each remains the solo parent makes more sense for your kids. Do you enter a sexual relationship with your partner?
You are an adult and have enjoyed a fulfilling sexual relationship with your former spouse. You miss the intimacy and are interested in finding that again. Birth control is no longer an issue.
I already know how people who are comfortable with pre-marital sex will answer. I think what I am more interested in is how people who believe sex outside of marriage is inappropriate will answer. Is there flexibility to your thinking? In this hypothetical, your relationship with your partner is solid but you are choosing not to marry for the sake of the well being of your kids. I suppose you could get married and still maintain two households but that seems silly and the God I look to doesn't need the piece of paper to sanctify what you have created as a couple.
I ask because I know a deeply devout woman who was widowed (with teen kids) and found herself in this (for her) very difficult place.
What are your thoughts???
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Comments
Witch
A lot of people find
Posted on: 07/08/2010 12:44
A lot of people find themselves in similar situations in their golden years, especially now that we are living well past the age when our children are grown.
It's interesting that a lot of people who were staunchly against any form of sex outside of marriage seem to find a much more moderate position when faced with this kind of situation in their own lives.
DaisyJane
The reason I ask is because
Posted on: 07/08/2010 12:50
The reason I ask is because during most of our conversations of sex outside of marriage, the image we tend to hold in our minds is one of the young couple, first marriage, little or no sexual experience, no kids, embarking on their life together. They don't have a lot of committments that force them to remain in one place or remain single. They are not only able, but want to, begin creating a life together. Our image tends not to include this sort of scenario where two adults, deeply committed to one another, have lives that for whatever reason, preclude marriage (in the golden years it can really mess with one's pension I believe) or put them in a place where it makes very good sense to defer marriage for a prolonged period of time (i.e. not just waiting for one to finish school).
Witch
I agree. A lot of very
Posted on: 07/08/2010 13:04
I agree.
A lot of very literalist and exclusivist moral pronouncements involve a very shallow examination of the issues.
Deeper examinations generally show that the issues are much more complex than can be solved with a "thou shalt not"
revjohn
Hi DaisyJane, DaisyJane
Posted on: 07/08/2010 14:21
Hi DaisyJane,
Do you enter a sexual relationship with your partner?
What are your thoughts???
Well according to the scenario you paint I am in a committed relationship that is surrounded by other relationships that present a tangle.
Part of that tangle will be the place of my new partner and how that relationship works to complement other existing relationships. Some relationships will no doubt feel threatened.
For my children I will want to model integrity which is me being true to who I am and what I believe.
If my partner and I believed that we were ready for sexual intimacy it would happen. With all the same caution and courtesy that happens in my marriage as it stands.
If the kids asked questions I would share with them my conviction that a committed relationship is the proper context for sexual intimacy and that our long-term plans are ultimately for marriage and a place which is ours (as in the two of us) with of course room for the occasional guests. Probably not a nest so big as to hold all the fledglings who will soon leave it anyway.
Grace and peace to you.
john
Tabitha
Let's see DaisyJane I'm 51
Posted on: 07/08/2010 15:07
Let's see DaisyJane
I'm 51 and have been single for 10 years.
I have dated some during that time but not extensively. Too many other demands on my time.
One guy I dated also had teens. So this scenario strikes close to home.
Hmm-If I was ready for an intimate relationship with this man then I probably would. I'm not sure I would put off marriage for a few years though. My youngest is now entering grade 10 and the other 2 are out of high school.
Would I wait 3 years for marraige? Life is so short.
Once you are having sex with someone, you want more of it (in my experience). So i know I'd want that guy in my bed most nights-for companionship as well as intimacy. So the realtionship can grow and develop. It needs time together-as well as meeting the kids needs.
MorningCalm
DaisyJane wrote:Do you enter
Posted on: 07/08/2010 17:28
No.
No.
Serena
This is a complicated
Posted on: 07/08/2010 19:25
This is a complicated question DaisyJane. Hypothetical children complicate it. Because they would likely notice that I would be gone overnight or walk in on us in the morning when we are staying at my place.
Since I still think that abstinence is the way to go for teens I would need to change that opinion or become better at sneaking around.
Because if I had this sexual relationship in my 50's outside of marriage and went against everything I taught my kids that would be an issue. Still I think most of us here would agree that abstinence is good for teens but teens see themselves as adults so if the adult who is preaching abstinence is not practising what she preaches that would be an issue.
I don't know. I think that some bugs need to be worked out of the plan. I am comfortable with sneaking around that is not an issue. It is harder to do when you have kids who you are responsible for. Of course I actually work a lot of nights now so I could tell them I am working nights....which is what I tell my tenants now when I am gone overnight...so maybe it could work.
Witch
jae wrote: DaisyJane wrote:Do
Posted on: 07/08/2010 19:31
No.
No.
I admire your honesty
DaisyJane
Jae. I admire your honesty as
Posted on: 07/08/2010 21:00
Jae. I admire your honesty as well.
Serena. Interesting post. I agree that the decision to enter a sexual relationship with a man/woman at that stage of life would present issues. I hadn't thought about the how it would unfold. For me, I wouldn't be comfortable lying about it to my kids. I would probably limit my overnights to times the kids were away and thus sexual encounters might be infrequent. While I would probably pursue the relationship in a way that was very discreet, I would certainly be willing to let my kids know that I was involved in a serious, adult relationship if it seemed appropriate to discuss it with them.
You're right that opens up the issue of being a role model. For me, I lean towards RevJohn's view. I believe strongly that sex should be reserved for commited, adult, monogamous, loving relationships. I do believe that those relationships can exist outside of marriage. I would certainly have that discussion with my kids. I would emphasize these concepts (i.e. can you live with the consequences (emotionally, physically and financially) of sex, are you engaging in safe sexual behaviour, is this someone you think you will be with forever, is this a loving, respectful relationship? etc.).
Ultimately my kids will make their own choices, just as we all made our choices. My role as a parent is to demonstrate how to make those informed choices. For me I believe in modelling sexual decisions made very deliberately and lived with integrity within a loving relationship.
(For me this is all hypothetical, of course).
seeler
I would. I can imagine
Posted on: 07/08/2010 21:18
I would. I can imagine several situations other than teen-age children, in which a person might feel the need to put off marriage for a few years. And I don't see why they should deny themselves the pleasure and fulfilment of a sexual relationship with another like-minded person in a loving, committed, monogamous relationship. In fact I know a couple in their nineties, a widow and a widower, who have chosen to continue their present living arrangements - he in the Grampy suite at his daughter's place, she in a seniors' apartment - but they go away for a romantic weekend every now and then. Its sweet to see him planning it, and to hear her giggle when someone asks 'how was your trip?'
When my children were teenagers I tried to teach them that sex was for adults, within marriage. I think now that I would emphasize that sex is for adults in mature and committed relationships.
Tabitha
As for being gone overnight
Posted on: 07/08/2010 23:06
As for being gone overnight with teens in thehome,
I encourage you folks to expand your thinking
Just because overnights are tricky logistically doesn't mean sex can't occur at other times
morning, afternoon, early evening
The issue for me is greater level of intimacy-physical and emotional leads me to wanting that paartner around in a frequent and dependable way ie waking up next to them on a daily basis!
Serena
Well, hopefully I would have
Posted on: 07/09/2010 01:38
Well, hopefully I would have thought of the logistics before I got carried away in the throes of passion and not be figuring things out after the fact. The thing is teenagers live so moment by moment. A monogomous relationship for them might be this month and then next month they will have another monogomous relationship that will lead to marriage. Condoms are 99% effective so why worry about pregnancy and STD's? (This is very tongue in cheek...I know better)
The other thing I think is that sex is personal. You do not need to be telling everyone and their dog that you are sleeping with someone. Reminds me a little of that song in Grease. Sandy sings "He got friendly holding my hand" The guy sings "She got friendly down in the sand" So it may not be any of the kids business. Still hard to hide the guy overnight though. Maybe lots of sleepovers at aunties' or daddy's place. :)
jon71
I would not feel any need to
Posted on: 07/09/2010 06:13
I would not feel any need to wait. I don't think I'd be having sex on the first date or anything, but I don't see any reason, Biblical or otherwise, to wait for marriage. Also I wish I didn't wait as long as I did the first time around. I missed some beautiful times becasue of holding on to the notion that I was supposed to be married first. I think under any circumstance I would have been amongst the last half (statistically) of people to have sex, and that's fine, I wasn't ready at 17, but I was more like in the last 5 or 10% and I regret that.
lastpointe
My sister in law divorced
Posted on: 07/09/2010 09:36
My sister in law divorced and had two kids. MEt and fell in love with a guy. The kids didn't meet him for about 5 years. She only saw him when they were with their dad so as not to cause confusion, espescially if things didn't work out.
Eventually they all started spending time together and they married when the kids were grown.
i dont' think she felt that life was being wasted, I think she felt that she was making her kids the first priority while they actively needed her.
If my husband died i would be slow to get involved again, mainly because it woudl be hard to follow up a "big love".
Mendalla
Didn't wait the first time.
Posted on: 07/09/2010 11:53
Didn't wait the first time. Still see no reason to do so, kids or not. For me, it's the commitment to each other's well-being that matters, not whether someone has said magical words over the couple.
Mendalla
oui
My brother-in-law went thru
Posted on: 07/12/2010 21:55
My brother-in-law went thru almost exactly what you describe. He is a newly divorced christian, with 4 teenagers. He met a really nice local divorced christian lady, who has 3 younger kids. She wanted to pursue the relationship, but his pastor said "no sex, sleepovers, or weekends away, it doesn't look good to the congregation".
He was happy to do as he was told, but she was very frustrated with that. On top of it all, they did not have enough financial resources together to get a house big enough for all those kids anyway. So they split up. Its too bad, she was good for him, and they are still good friends.
I guess it all depends on the various needs of the individuals involved. Personally, I would find a way to include sex in my life, its part of the fabric of my being, and if I am distressed over it, I wouldn't be the best I could be for the kids.
DaisyJane
At some level I just think it
Posted on: 07/12/2010 22:12
At some level I just think it is sad that a minister had so much influence in a decision that should really be confined to a couple and God.
However, if they felt that this was the right decision then so be it.
crazyheart
There is a church here that
Posted on: 07/12/2010 22:34
There is a church here that the minister told the couple that if they lived together, they were not welcome and " the sins of the father would fall upon the children". They had the children on alternate weekends. I am friends with the mother and the children had a lot of hangups because of it. the husband and second partner left the church.
chansen
oui wrote: My brother-in-law
Posted on: 07/12/2010 23:23
Religious leaders have often been eager to tell people who they can and can not sleep with. It's sickening.
He was?!? Are you sure he was heterosexual and had a pulse?
Ummm...how's that work?
"Hey, God? I want to sleep with this woman I've been seeing, and, not that you're usually concerned about these things, but she's into me, too. So, waddya say?"
*crickets*
Azdgari
Chansen, you have to
Posted on: 07/23/2010 18:01
Chansen, you have to understand where "God" is and how it talks to people.
"God" is a part of the person's own personality, a projection of his or her own values, beliefs and desires. As such, it can engage in communication with the mind of the person hosting it. I know an atheist who became a theist by projecting his values, beliefs and desires into a goddess-figure, with whom he could carry on an internal communication, etc. He found that she was as real to him as YHWH was back when he was a Christian. His account of the experience was most interesting. Interestingly, his experiment alienated a lot of the supposedly open-minded atheists with whom he'd become friends online. The irrational, knee-jerk reaction so many had to the word "god" was sobering, for me and him both.
http://www.atheistthinktank.net/thinktank/index.php?topic=1242.0
So it is entirely possible for DaisyJane's friend to have been communicating with "God", from her perspective, even if she was not communicating with an external being. Gods are not external beings.