crazyheart
The 99 That Are Not Lost
Posted on: 09/06/2010 13:16
The Parable about going out to find the one lost sheep is basically a parable about getting lost and celebrating both the recovery and being found.
We can name many who are lost to the church for many reasons - addictions,simply drift away, those who have been hurt or offended etc.
But what about the one who drifts away and is forever lost to the church - different religions such as Wiccan, Atheist and so on. Who is to say that they are lost?
And in our churches , to take the analogy a little further, the 99 that are not lost ( in their minds) point at the others and it becomes a inside/outside conundrum.
These are some things that I am wrestling with today. Any thoughts?
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MorningCalm
crazyheart wrote: The Parable
Posted on: 09/06/2010 13:19
The Parable about going out to find the one lost sheep is basically a parable about getting lost and celebrating both the recovery and being found.
We can name many who are lost to the church for many reasons - addictions,simply drift away, those who have been hurt or offended etc.
Hi crazyheart,
You and I have different interpretations of that parable. To me the lost sheep is the sinner who is lost in their sin. It isn't speaking of a Christian who has wandered away from the church. It's describing an unbeliever.
Personally I believe that once someone truly becomes a Christian they can never lose their salvation.
Those are my thoughts.
Peace in Christ.
GRR
crazyheart wrote: The Parable
Posted on: 09/06/2010 18:32
The Parable about going out to find the one lost sheep is basically a parable about getting lost and celebrating both the recovery and being found.
We can name many who are lost to the church for many reasons - addictions,simply drift away, those who have been hurt or offended etc.
One of the beautiful things about parable/metaphor is that it means to us what we need it to mean at any given time.
I've never thought of this parable in the context you use it, but now that you've brought it up, I think it could be a wonderful way to speak to those in the pew about reaching out to those who no longer do.
This, to me, has always been a "bridge" metaphor. One that helped listeners to make the transition from "you're too sinful to enter the Temple until you sacrifice a goat, three turtle doves and your virgin daughter" to the radical agapé understanding of inseverability.
Just as preachers are told today, Jesus had to meet people where they were. And most, just like today, had spent so much of their lives being told they were "sinful" that they couldn't accept the reality in one piece.
jon71
i don't believe it is a "vs."
Posted on: 09/07/2010 07:32
i don't believe it is a "vs." thing. I would imagine the 99 sheep are just hoping for their sibling to return safe and sound (if you'll excuse the anthropromorphisism).
Panentheism
Nice Jon - it is not about
Posted on: 09/07/2010 09:36
Nice Jon - it is not about sin - the story reminds us that in the transactional world the lost sheep would not be worth the effort to find - in cost accounting count the loss and worry only about those who are safe for market. No rational shepherd would leave to find the lost sheep at the expense of those other sheep. Those who heard would have said my god this advice is not rational and would cause some rethinking of their world view.
It is not a rational act.
Arminius
One can be lost in the herd.
Posted on: 09/07/2010 22:31
One can be lost in the herd. The lost sheep often find in the wildereness what they didn't find in the herd.
Better one glimpse of it within the Tavern caught
Than in the Temple lost outright.
-Omar Khayyam
Jim Kenney
The best sermon I heard on
Posted on: 09/08/2010 10:53
The best sermon I heard on this passage (21 years ago) included the reading all the way to the end of the parable of the prodigal father. The essential point of the sermon was that, for God, as understood by Jesus, the empire of God is incomplete if any one is missing, and God will go to any length necessary to achieve completeness. The 99 sheep are like the found pieces of a jigsaw puzzle missing one piece, or the IKEA furniture that is missing an essential bracket, or the string of Christmas lights missing one bulb. The parable definitely would have been heard as lunacy by most of its original hearers, and, when combined with the next two parables, invites "Christians" today to consider what God wants of their communities.
Panentheism
right on Jim
Posted on: 09/09/2010 12:28
right on Jim
crazyheart
Thank you Jim. Do you think
Posted on: 09/09/2010 13:08
Thank you Jim. Do you think that God,( told by Jesus) feels that other religions etc. are part of the lost? How do you combine these two things?
Panentheism
Let us not use Lost here ch
Posted on: 09/09/2010 13:13
Let us not use Lost here ch but you are correct that God;s concern is for all religious and non religious people - titles or names for the group are not important.
So if I was writing a sermon on this I would include the idea that no one is out side God's grace thus all are part of us even if they name themselves differently from us -
crazyheart
Thats what I needed to hear
Posted on: 09/09/2010 13:15
Thats what I needed to hear and what I was struggling with. Thank you Pan
Jim Kenney
To me, "lost" means living in
Posted on: 09/10/2010 12:48
To me, "lost" means living in a way that leads away from God and/or into a path of harm to self or others. The "I have other sheepfolds" line in the Gospel of John combined with the opening of John's Gospel led to my understanding that the "Christ Spirit" that was part of creation was in the formation of constructive religious systems--when a thoughtful person seeks to understand their connection to the world and to God, this "Christ Spirit" or just Spirit, can enter into their contemplation. There are many doors to God -- some of them are found in Christian communities.
I also suspect that many, Christian and otherwise, see themselves as being in the sheepfold, but are making decisions and choosing attitudes and beliefs that suggest they are lost, even if they believe they are found. But I do not have the right to declare that they are lost, only that they seem lost to me.
RitaTG
FriendJae ..... I really feel
Posted on: 09/10/2010 13:18
FriendJae ..... I really feel that crazyheart had nailed it....
It is about a sheep that has been lost from the flock. This is not about a sheep from the outside that has been noticed and found. The sheep in question had already been counted as part of the existing flock and had been included in the count.
I know what it feels like to be such a sheep..... No longer cared for .... not really wanted by the other sheep. Its been almost 2 years now. I am moving away from this particular "flock". The shepherd in charge of that little flock doesnt even notice me. But ... but the true shepherd .... Jesus ...he noticed. He will and already has begun the recovery process and HE will put me back in the flock that I do belong in. Of that I am convinced....
Yes.... this parable is about existing sheep ...yes indeed......
Hugs
Rita