Several years ago my grandmotehr (who was as cut-and-dried, logical, rational as they come) told me of an experience in the hospital after one of her hip replacements many years earlier.

She knew she had a visitor in the middle of the night.  She described it as a comforting presence at a time when she was in pain.  The visitor eased her and made her more comfortable and then left.  For her it was an angelic visit.

Yes, they are.  They're supposed to be out there saving people, but most of them are too busy drinking and flirting with leprechauns.  That's why people get hit by busses.

I will answer your question when I see one.

Depends....How do you define angels?

Yes.

Which is morningcalm's way of saying that it's all a matter of degree.

There's something to that - angels as pure spirit or flesh-and-blood embodiment of the same, or some degree in between? Never having experienced the first sort, but having been ministered to by some amazing souls when in pain, discouraged, or just plain uncertain of where to turn, my inclination would be towards the latter.

Visit by a Holy Guardian Angel

The Holy Guardian Angel

Came on board,

Gripped the wheel,

And steered

The mighty, stormtossed vessel

On to her star-wrought course.

The billowing, buffeting mystery dance.

 I'm an angel ...

I think angels are as real as any other part of reality.

But some say reality is an illusion.

Regards

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc

DL

In Greek times they called them The Kindly Ones.

In more Lovejoy times, Barny and Betty Hill knew them.

Joan of Arc had her conversion experience at a Christian site that used to be an older, pagan site.  Where she was visited by the Virgin Mary (Christian paradigm) or the White Lady (Pagan paradigm).

There was even some hot angel wrasslin in the Bible.

And so it goes...

I don't. But it's possible there may be something we yet don't know about life energy, memory,  and dimention, and most definately there are whole encyclopedias we don't yet know about the mind. And these things do exist in the mind, as do demons. So the great majority of the time, I find it best and safest to find comfort and stability in reality.

Yes, they're real. They're mentioned numerous times in the Bible. I don't however believe that pop culture has much at all right about who and what they are.

Yes.

Short, sweet, and stupid.  And a big reason why people aren't taking this stuff seriously any more.

Choosing to believe is one thing.  Saying that something exists and using a book that tells of their existence as your reason for stating it exists is something completely different.  By those standards, the Teenaged Mutant Ninja Turtles exist, because their stories are in print as well.

is there any point in explain to chasen that they are testimonies, if one is closed to its possiblilites, then one is closed

People want to believe.  You're a prime example.  You're desperate to have your belief validated, but the desperation shines through far more brightly than the validity does.

Sometimes, people are victims of good fortune, and can attribute this to a personal angel or similar guiding force.  I think it's closer to the truth to say that sometimes, things work out in your favour.  There is no reason to say that good fortune befalls those who believe in angels more than those who do not believe.

Besides, if any of this were real, it would be documented.  The scientific community would love to have some supernatural force to study.

I'm not closed to the possibility.  I just have higher standards for accepting stories as true than you do.  Specifically, I don't accept a story because it is old and in print, and because it influenced a lot of people to say they saw something based on what is old and in print.

Now you've created a semantic trap for yourself, by limiting yourself to 'True' and 'Untrue'.  How to get out of it?

Try these out (for each sentence, choose one in the right hand column) and see how you react, how your thinking goes.  Are there times when your choice is harder or easier?  Especially notice any stress reactions (eg. anger, frustration) or feelings of comfort.

Angels are Real                                   True/False

Angels are Real                                   True/False/Maybe

Angels are Real                                   True/False/Maybe/Circular Reasoning*

Angels are Real                                    True/False/Maybe/Circular Reasoning/Social Game**

Have some fun with this.  Don't be afraid to tinker with your brain.

*  It is true because the Bible says it is true, in effect.  Another way of thinking of this is that the truth of Angels are Real is self-referential.

**I made a post aboot Social Games a bit back.  Ok, take a crosswalk.  Now, how does a crosswalk work?  Obviously not by erecting some kind of force field that stops cars in their tracks or somehow gives pedestrians immunity from car impact.  A crosswalk is essentially an agreement between the pedestrian and the cars.  In other words, it is a Social Game, socially agreed upon rules.  One can think of Christianity operating this way as well, a Christian being someone who calls themselves a Christian in relation to other people.

Well put.

/you could get a fast car

Jon71 wrote:

To the best of my knowledge I've never encountered an angel, although we are taught that people have 'entertained angels, unaware" so who knows. I know many other people in the world seriously say that they have and I'm sure in many cases they're right.

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our family has, when my uncle was dieing, in north we were flowing in on a fishing weekend, we did know they were Angels,  2 women, on a dark Ontario Lake, after midnight, the boat capsized, my captained were puled into there boat , they got back to shore where my uncle was dieing from sever heart condition, one woman was a nurse and confirmed he was dieing, the other woman a minister, prayed for my uncle.

He died that night, the plain didn't come till 2 days latter, after the funeral, we ALl went back to the place were we booked the resort to find the 2 women to thank them, ,,,,

they told us, we don't know what your talking about , your grp was the last plain of the seasion to fly in and out of the area, there was nobody in fop hundreds of miles except for our group.

we all looked at each other ad we all mummered what were the chances of 2 woman one being a minister the other a nurse, exactly what we need, then a cousin of mine, said , they were angels .

another time I went to hear Michael Coren speak at a church of the Coren Show on TV, he spoke about is upbringing and how an angel saved a frind of his who was covering the Bosnia war, he didnt believe teh story, till he Got home and an angle confermed the story.Because of that Micheal became christian .

I do believe in angels. Sometimes they are seen (in the forms of humans and other critters) and sometimes they are not seen. I think sometimes God uses us as angels. A few years ago I was approached by a mentally handicapped woman selling Christmas ornaments. I felt that I needed to buy one, but I had no idea who it was for. I took it home and put it on my desk, then headed out for the evening to a church service. I encountered an acquaintance there who was obviously having a tough time - she didn't say much about what was going on, but she did mention that she felt nervous about attending our regular service the next morning because she didn't want to be a part of the music leadership that day (she normally was). I invited her to sit with me again - telling her I would meet her there. When I went home, I immediately realized that I was supposed to give that ornament to this person. I found out much later that my new friend had tried to commit suicide less than 24 hours before I ran into her at the church that evening. I believe God worked through me that day - that for a few hours I got to be an angel.

Thank you so much for sharing. What you said it beautiful, profound, and very enlightening.

Good post Rita...put a "ditto" next to my name ;-)

God bless,

I refuse to open my mind so far that my brain falls out.  You have anecdotes.  Those are not evidence - they're cool-sounding stories if you want them to be true.

And Joan has how many scientists beating down her door to verify her claims?  How many health care agencies are looking to harness angel power to save lives?

What you have, is quackery.  If angels save people - say the Chilean miners - then you have to accept that angels (or God) let most trapped miners die.  By what criteria do angels save people or let them die?  It's not belief, as bad things befall believers as well as non-believers.  It's not church attendance.  It's not which religion or denomination you belong to.  It's not how old you are.  Angels, it would appear, choose who to save at random.  Exactly how you would expect things to go if there were no angels in the first place.

Working backward, take away the assumption that angels exist, and what happens?  Do some miners, though the diligent work of rescue crews, still survive?  Do some cancer patients beat the odds?  Do some people still see that bus coming and jump out of the way at the last second?

Absolutely.  Take away the assumption of angels, and our world does not change one iota.

And in a world of religious imagery and belief, absolutely, people will believe in angels.  And when they beat the odds, am I supposed to be surprised when they claim they are here because of one?