Hi Panentheist:

There should be no exceptions. Jesus welcomed everyone unconditionally, and so should we.

The Basis of Union reads, "All may be admitted to the Lord’s Supper who make a credible profession of their faith in the Lord Jesus and of obedience to His law."

The invitation that I use goes something like, "The table we gather at now is not mine. Its not St. Andrew's. Its not even The United Church's. This table is Christ's.

Jesus of Nazareth invited everyone to his table - poor and rich, young and old, people who believed in what he had to say, and people who didn't, searchers and people-who-were-sure-they-knew-it. He invited everyone.

Christ invites everyone.

He invites you if you're gay or if you're straight. He invites you if you're 9 days or 999 years old. He invites you if your ancestors were born here or in any other part of the world.

As seeker, as searcher, as newcomer or as one who has walked his path for years, he invites you.

In whatever way you believe in him, he invites you to his table.

So - knowing you are invited by Jesus the Christ - come as you desire."

I realize that I could probably be challenged on what is written in the Articles of Faith. It would be interesting to see if my interpretation of those lines could be successfully argued.

But, Panen - I''m still trying to figure out how becoming an Affirming Congregation is exclusivist. I'm really not sure how an open stance on communion and the Affirming process are in opposition... or how they're even connected.

Christ's peace -r

what am i assuming? everything i said is true according to scripture.

Look either we stand in and obey all the truth of GOD in the bible or we don't.

GOD does not comprimise his word and his laws for anyone,

IT is not for us to debate and pick and choose what we should believe about the scripture for as soon as we do that we are lost thinking we know better than GOD.

If I blaspheme what do these scriptures mean then?

God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness Romans 1;18-32

   
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,^[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,^[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

1 Corinthians 5

Immorality Defiles the Church

 1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named^[a] among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5  deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.^[b]
6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.^[c] 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Immorality Must Be Judged

   
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”^[d]

Glorify God in Body and Spirit

Hi Russ. Yes, I have collected avatars since the beginning of Wonder Cafe.

I don't usually get worked up over posters with drs' views but yesterday he irked me. I guess I just hate it when they bash the UCCAN  and I guess if we don't stand up for our church and it's affirming stance - no one will.

Don't these two statements contradict each other? Which is it, RichardBott? Is the Lord's supper for those who have faith in Jesus, or can it include seekers and searchers???

Jesus said we were to partake of it in remembrance of him. Do seekers truly have remembrance of him, a person they have yet to really place their faith in?

Shouldn't the leadership of a church fence in the Lord's table, to ensure that no one comes unworthily?

Hmmm....

How did Paul put it? Oh, right... "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."

None of us are any more or less 'worthy' than any other.

Following the logic in your post, none of us should be able to come to Christ's table.

Who did Christ turn away?

Christ's peace - r

Hi, Jubilee...

Around the "credible profession of faith" statement... I'd submit that coming to Christ's table is a profession - or at the very least, a hope - that something more than chowing down on a piece of bread and slurping back some grape juice is happening in that moment.

In our participation in the sacraments, Christ touches the world (and us) in ways we can only begin to imagine. There is powerful and wonder-full transformative change when the Divine and creation interact.

I'm prepared to take the act of participation as an outward sign of some kind of connection with God. (*lol* - Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?)

Christ's peace - r

russ also it is not about feeling welcome it is about the truth.

we are to conform to GOD's ways and GOD'S  laws not go around building different kinds of churches were people feel they can fit in and are free to express them selfs however they wish.

The church is supposed to be the body of CHRIST and serve the will of GOD according to the truth in the scripture.

Hi Jubilee,

The two statements do not contradict each other.  A credible profession is the profession that the community accepts.  My liturgy differs from Richard's but it includes a liturgical profession.  We don't say that individually and then participate we say it communally.  Those who do not wish to participate do not have to make the profession we assume that all those who do, have.

Do you truly partake in remembrance since you were not present at the Last Supper?

I would acknowledge that you remember the tradition of the Last Supper but that is not the same thing as having been present to have an actual memory of.

No one who celebrates the sacrament does so because they are worthy of it.  No one since Christ instituted it presiding does so because they are worthy.  In fact, I would argue that any who come presuming to be worthy profane the sacrament with their ignorance.

The cup is the cup of forgiveness.  The covenant ratified by the blood of Christ.  It alone makes worthy.

We do not come to the table because we are worthy.  We come to the table because by participating we have access to the means of grace and we are made worthy.

The Apostle Paul talks about eating and drinking the cup in an unworthy manner and eating and drinking judgement upon one's self in 1 Corinthians 11.  Paul is also very explicit that the problem is not discerning the body, meaning who belongs and who may participate.  No where does Paul, in 1 Corinthians 11 suggest the problem he seeks to address was a problem of allowing people to participate but rather it was behaving in such a way so as to prohibit people from participating.

If a fence is to be put into play it can only be put into play to prevent the error that Paul critiques.  1 Corinthians 11:  20-22 highlight Paul's problem and the reason for his warnings in 1 Corinthians 11:  27-34.

For that same reason should a clergy person ever not serve anyone who has come forward the sacrament should be formally ended right there.  It is not a tool to punish with.  It is the meal of the community.

Grace and peace to you.

John

[/quote]

russ (silly tables just take to long) what does that mean?

next i said RC is a false form of Christianity  latin verse english  - doctrine and religious practice wrong in whatever lauguage.

also when i said building diiferent kinds of churches it has nothing to do with the actual stucture or architecture of the building itself, but the building and massing together bodies of people that do not hold true to GOD's word  written in the bible.

Fundamently some type of GOD JESUS was/is important?

LORD JESUS CHRIST GOD MOST HIGH KING OF THE UNIVERSE SAVIOUR TO ALL THAT WILL TRULY BELIEVE IN HIM

HE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT,   HE IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE.

old testement  most was written by GOD'S profits who he spoke to dirrectly.

new testement the gospels were LORD JESUS  words written by his diciples by the HOLY SPIRT

the diciples wrote the other epistles by the HOLY SPIRT

Revelation was given to John by GOD told to write these things down.

LORD JESUS CHRIST testifies to the truth of this scripture and gives a warning.

DO you not think GOD has the power to keep his HOLY BIBLE and have what scriptures he wants in it? ofcourse he does that is why when people deny it they will have no excuse.

Jesus Testifies to the Churches

   
12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”^[f]
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,^[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But^[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

A Warning

   
18 For^[i] I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add^[j] to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away^[k] his part from the Book^[l] of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I Am Coming Quickly

   
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!
21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.^[m] Amen.
 

Hi Russ could you please be more specifac regarding these things with scripture refference so i know what to look for. thanx

here you have it ,  to be comformed to the image of his Son

romans 8

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

what kind of worldly wisdom is that?

  what could be more wonderfull than to be conformed into the image of LORD JESUS CHRIST to love, worship and serve  him for all time and beyond.?

genisis 6:19     2 of every kind to keep  the species alive

genisis 7:2-3    animals for sacrifice and food

genisis 8:20

20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

genisis 9:3

3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you.

next   they differ as to time of what? sorry i need more specifac scripture references, and times to what?

Sorry, just to add one more thought Pan.

What I have found moving from a UCC church that would probably be considered quite right of centre to a church that is affirming and more left of centre is that the "affirming" sentiment seems to extend beyond the GLBT spectrum.  While I understand the affirming piece to largely apply to the GLBTQ community I have found that the community extends full inclusion to all.  They way my son was welcomed when we arrived at this new church was overwhelming to the point of reducing me to tears as I type this post.

In our last congregation I felt that specialson was viewed as a bit of enigma...how do we include HIM?  Crap, this means we need to figure out where the heck to move the Sunday school class......(allow several years to pass while I simply washed my hands of the chuch)....enter the new, affirming congregation discovered during church shopping some years later......the community embraced specialson.  Within months of our arriving a ramp materialized in the one inaccessible place in the church.  Specialson was fully included in sunday school.  Specialson was the star in last year's Christmas pageant and is a wise man this year. 

To me this is an AFFIRMING congregation!!!!!

Hmmmm, no idea why that posted twice.  Sorry!

To speacial mom

I certanly did not say that I have only been quoting scripture.

please sent me your bible sripture quote.

my own opinion is meaningless all that matter's is what GOD has said in scripture

most preachers, people, when interperting scriptue just leave out what they don't like or what is to hard for them believe which is not truly interpertation it is selective reading.

that is not the way it works it is an all or nothing deal.

matthew 4:4

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”^[

crazyheart

the resource is the bible itself.

most awnsers to peoples questions are there in the scripture but they refuse to accept them.

what do you think this is a fight? winning or losing?, no one can fight with GOD and win so either you will humbly submit to his will or you will rebel believing that you are wise and know better than GOD

here a quote of what GOD has said about worldly wisdom.

1 corinthians 1

Christ the Power and Wisdom of God

   
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

      “ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
      And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”^[a]

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

I would humbly ask that the "literal" conversation be taken elsewhere.  Pan's questions about affirming is a good one and I would enjoy reading the conversation about that topic rather than allowing this tangent hijack the thread.

My apologies for playing along though like CH it did irk me.

Thamk you drs  for your input but like specialmom, I too, would ask that we get back to pan's query about affirming congregations.

I think that pan's point is well taken, and may be because same gender happened to be the flavour of teh day.  So it became the flag around which us UUCers rallied.

Now that this subject has been settled, at least in most minds, we can move on to the broader picture.  But I fear, that the train has moved on and the outcry just isn't there.

So how do we raise the profile?  Exactly what are trying to do?  Who have we excluded?

IT

Russ

crazy

Perhaps we are lucky as we seem to have quite an active older group where I attend.  Exercise class, art, all that good stuff.

Hmmmmm

Loss for words.  I'll get back.

IT

Russ

weeze

We had a science versus theology discussion last Wednesday and I think we were all amazed that while the understanding of the Bible was all over the place, we seemed to get along just fine.  I think UCCers are a different breed.  Perhaps we come across as wishy washy.  I don't think that is the case.  I think we are more accepting, willing to look beyond the obvious and as you say, welcoming  Don't expect a fight here,  BUT, you can expect a friendly debate, a cup of coffee, and of course FOOD, always food!

IT

Russ