very interesting Rishi.

Last night when I listened to the webinar with Alan Hirsch - he commented at one point on a large survey done in Australia - asking people their opinions/interest re God, Jesus, spirituality & church.  The results -

God

Jesus

Spirituality

Church

He commented that it's important not to confuse 'church' with its message.  Some connections to this video I think.   Somehow church needs to become a better vector for the message, in our post-Christendom world.  Or I suppose Marshall McLuhan might have said the Medium is INTERFERING with the Message.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-i-hate-religion-but-love-jesus-poe...

or his recant.

“Right when I heard that, it just convicted me and God used it as one of those Spirit moments where it’s just ‘man he’s right,’” Bethke told CP. “I realized a lot of my views and treatments of the church were not Scripture-based, they were very experienced-based.”

He added, “And that’s when I realized that wasn’t right. God’s church is holy, that’s his bride.”

**************

“It has nothing to do with the actual church,” Bethke stated. “It’s a synonym used for Pharisee-type legalistic, self-righteous people that are opposed to the church and opposed to Christianity. So that’s my definition of [false religion].”

***********

According to Bethke, his main message to young Christians struggling with feelings of distrust and hate for the church is to not let events of the past “blind or block your view of what the church is saying.”

“Don’t listen to what society is saying,” he advised. “The ultimate authority is the word of God and we have to submit ourselves to that. Return to the Scripture and trust that God knows best.

“There are a lot of times we put the Bible below us and say, ‘Okay I’m going to listen to it, I’m going to read it, but its below me so I have [the] ultimate say.’ We don’t realize the arrogance of that statement – to say ‘we know better than God.’

“So we need to elevate the Scriptures, put them back where they belong, see the word of God as the ultimate authority and say ‘God this might not sound politically correct to me, but I trust that you’re after my joy.’”

****************

___________

¹³ When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

 ¹⁴ They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

   ¹⁵ “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

 ¹⁶ Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

 ¹⁷ Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. ¹⁸ And I tell you that you are Peter,^[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades^[c] will not overcome it.(Matthew 16:13-17)

That is a really wonderfull video , reminds me of a book i read and still refrence to it 

I agree, this book was a real eye openor for me 

Rishi, you don't look old enough to have read that in the 70's, you must have some secret:)

I have read some eastern orthodox material and watched a video of a sermon/ lecture last night. Interesting, does make the western stuff seem to lack depth.

Hi rishi

Great video ---and I agree Religion is external only and has nothing to do with the inner spiritual side of us ---also as he pointed out Jesus didn't come to bring a new Religion but to bring closer to our spiritual inner side .

Religion in my view has nothing to offer but human input that in some cases has resulted in many deaths as with Jim Joans and others who use religion to puff themselves up and destroy others in God's name.

Everything that we see in this physical word came from the unseen realm ---the spiritual realm is the parent of this physical realm ----Everything we make or do starts with a thought -- which is unseen ----our body moves to our thoughts  ----

The mouse trap ---was first a thought --it wasn't in existance at that point  --so now the thought moved the body to start the process of bringing the trap into this physical seen realm ---it was brought from the unseen into the seen as is everything .

This is just my view on this ---Peace

Here is our problem in the term religion. On the one hand it is the unequestioned factor of human development and history.  To be human is to be religious.  ( this is what now call spiritual) We use somethings but ARE religious.. ( When science works as a cosomology it is being religious.)

Religion has also its doctrinal apsects, its rational aspects, emotional aspects, its ritual aspects.  Each of these and all these form what we call a religion ( Buddhism etc) and within each religion there are sub sets- and within the subsets there are a variety of ways of being religious (back to doctrine etc)  So religion is evolving and yet is a dynamic in that evolving process.

Your character is developed acording to your faith.  This is the primary religious truth from which on one can escape.  Religion is froce of belief cleansing the inward parts.

"Religon is what the individaul does with his ( her) own solitariness.  It runs through three stages, it it evolves to its final satisfact. It is the transition from God the void to God the enemy, and from God the enmy to God the compasinion." ( Religion in the Making AN Whitehead)

If you are never solitary you are never religous.  As part or outcom,  what you do in your solitidute should drive you to world solidarity.  Bibles, codes, rituals, churches, are the trapping  of religion, its passing forms.

What should emerge from religon is individual worth of character.  But worth is positive or negative, good or bad.  Religion is by no means necessarily good.  It can be evil.  So it matters what religion you follow.

You cannot have Jesus without religion.  The religion of Jesus is a subset which can inform us.  It is the ritual that connects us with that spirit and it is the feeling of the spirit that forms us finally, creates our character.  Again what we do in solidariness that drives to world loyalty.

It's over a decade ago that Rev. Chris Levan wrote a book entitled "God Hates Religion".   I can't put my finger on it right now, so I'm going by memory.   He showed how Jesus, and the prophets before him, criticized the misuse of religion at the time - the ways religion was observed in practice but not in spirit - hollow festivals, sacrifices without meaning, rituals.  And how religion was used to benefit those in power and to control the common people, adding to their burdens rather than being a source of comfort and help, neglecting the poor, the widow and the orphan, failing to show hospitality to the alien.   But he didn't stop there.  He claimed that many of our modern churches continue the same practices that Jesus railed against, while claiming to 'believe in' Jesus.   

It seems to me that God hates religion when it gets in the way of loving God and neighbour, when it is a stumbling block for those who follow the Way that Jesus followed.   

The prophets carried God's message - "I am sick and tired of your sacrifices, your festivals, your religious observances."

Paul wrote - "If I speak in the tongues of angels, but do not love, I am a noisy gong.  If I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and have all faith, but do not love, I am nothing.   If I give away all my possessions and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not hav elove I gain nothing."

And in between Jesus, while continuing to worship and practice his relgion, challanged and criticized the religious leaders of his time, and even held up the widow's mite in contrast to the generous gifts of the publican. 

There is nothing new in stating 'I hate religion' and criticizing when and where you think it has gone wrong.  In fact I think that we are called to do just that.   

Chris did not understand religion - made a nice point but read my post above- religion is a reality and comes in both good and bad forms - you cannot get away from religion being basic to who we are - it is a given.  Yes one can and ought to critize forms that are human created but metaphysically it is part of the web of life.  Like a meme.