Darrel Tessier
Can human consiouness be reduced merely to brain function?
Posted on: 08/24/2011 09:16
WAXING POLEMICAL! Where does this idea come from that a person’s mind can be reduced to brain function only? It is evidence of the spirit of this age that humanity, especially in the “civilized” West, has largely lost its ability to reflect on the Self. Our ability to look within, and sense the divine spark, is almost completely lost. We have deceived ourselves into believing the doctrine of materialism constructed over the last 250 years. This has meant the fragmenting and isolation of the self from the Self. We no longer have the basic self-awareness to sense our own Essence which is the source of being; our human Essence which interfaces with the divine, Cosmic Eternal Self. Materialist reductionism, and its corollary of scientism, have led us down a dead end street. The twin heresies of christian fundamentalism and biblical literalism have further polarized society. The result is widespread meaninglessness and psychological malaise. Never have so many people been treated for depression, anxiety disorders and other mental conditions by a multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry. Never have so many billions of dollars been spent on entertainments and diversions to titillate and help us forget our loneliness, despair and isolation. We have lost our Center and if any dare to look within they see only a hall of mirrors; images of the superficial self, reflected endlessly, meaninglessly, ad infinitum, in the amusement park of scientific reductionism. Its much easier to explain the empty, impoverished self as a mere function of the brain. No more need be said! No further reflection is required and we are no longer responsible to journey down the path of true Self knowledge. Never in history have we been so rich in facts and yet so poor in knowledge.
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chansen
? We've always been
Posted on: 08/24/2011 10:05
?
We've always been lonely. We've always been largely depressed. We've always used drugs as escapism. We've just gotten better at manufacturing these things in China and marketing them. Nothing is truly new here.
As for consciousness being "reduced" to brain function...show us why it isn't. Demonstrate what this "divine spark" is. It's not like a lack of these things is bad or negative. We still have the capacity for imagination. There is no less wonder in this world because we don't have a "divine spark". Assuming that we do, distracts us from the wonders and capabilities of the human mind, which we are only beginning to understand. No "divine spark" assumptions required.
DaveHenderson
Hi Darrel, I agree with you
Posted on: 08/24/2011 10:17
Hi Darrel,
I agree with you completely. I am a great proponent of science and reason. However the search for, and discernment of, the divine is a cornerstone of our being. In fact speaking of brain function, seeking the divine has been identified as part of our physiological makeup.
God bless,
blackbelt
Quote: DT
Posted on: 08/24/2011 12:22
DT wrote:
Never in history have we been so rich in facts and yet so poor in knowledge.
so very true, reminds me of a grp from our church last yrs who went on a mission trip to the Dominica republic to help build housing, and a water fountain, they are so poor. when the grp came back they were amazed to find that these people were so poor in materialism yet so rich in spirit, un like the western world, we are so rich in materialism , yet so so poor in spirit and life
Mendalla
I don't agree that saying
Posted on: 08/24/2011 12:35
I don't agree that saying that consciousness/mind is a product of brain function "reduces" it. Rather, it elevates that brain function and shows us just much complexity is really possible in a material universe. I think human consciousness is one of the wonders of existence even if it is the result of chemistry and physics rather than being some phenomenon (natural or supernatural) in its own right. And, if you believe in a God, it's in that wonderful complexity that you will find that God, not in some transcendant heaven.
Mendalla
Azdgari
So Darrel...you're basically
Posted on: 08/24/2011 14:23
So Darrel...you're basically saying that naturalism is depressing, and therefore bad?
That's what I got out of your post. Seems kind of an odd thing to say. I mean, knowing about the Holocaust is depressing, but that doesn't make acknowledging it a bad thing, does it?
Thing is, there's nothing about our grand human consciousness that requires a supernatural non-explanation. As Mendalla says, materialism doesn't reduce us. The 'reduction' you sense is an emotional response - now, why do you respond in that way to it?
Pilgrims Progress
I'm with you, Darrel.
Posted on: 08/24/2011 20:35
I'm with you, Darrel.
Without that divine spark, life would (and was) less meaningful.
We've become so clinical - psychiatrists treat troubled minds and neglect the soul.
I believe we are more than our minds - just like the "Mona Lisa" is more than just a painting.
I can't "prove" it - and frankly I'm at peace with the mystery. So wonderful to live with a quiet acceptance, instead of being on a roller coaster of demands and requirements...........
Darrel Tessier
What I get from the "latest"
Posted on: 08/24/2011 23:29
What I get from the "latest" in the inquiry into the nature of matter is that matter is not matter as previously understood. Lets lay aside the "super-natural." There really is no such thing. All existence must be "natural." The ancient beliefs in the supernatural were a way of grappling what was yet to be understood. Radios and TVs would have been considered supernatural by people living in the middle ages. But human consciousness is not contained solely in the brain is my main point here. Why? Because there are anomalies. Remember Hans Kuhn's "the nature of scientific Revolutions." I think we are on the threshold of such a revolution - a paradigm shift.
Neo
Double thumbs ups to your
Posted on: 08/25/2011 07:50
Double thumbs ups to your comment pilgrims, (you'll have imagine those thumbs though since I can't make them on my iPad).
Darrel Tessier
My opening posting was
Posted on: 08/25/2011 08:02
My opening posting was somewhat polemical. That was mischievous of me!
Here's the problem.
As a young man I went to see a hypnotist who was performing in a church hall. He was very impressive. You know the type of show, I'm sure. But he did one particular thing I could not explain. One of his subjects, a close friend named Dan, was sitting in a chair on stage under the hypnotist's power. The hypnotist asked a third party, also a friend (this was in a small community), to go into an adjacent room and write a single word on the blackboard there. He then asked Dan to travel with his mind into the next room and read the word. He did. The third party, in astonished bewilderment, confirmed Dan's reading!
A model of consciousness that makes more sense to me than the "common sense" - mind = brain - comes from A. Huxely's "mind at large" proposal. I believe his model was inspired by Henri Bergson.
WaterBuoy
"Mind at Large" impression
Posted on: 08/25/2011 09:33
"Mind at Large" impression ... perhaps why Webster defines the intellect as all that is beyond the bode an will ... emotional form in á saac?
Some imaginary forces required ... that's Complex Nos. eh! The forces are devined as four main tribes in Numbers 2 ... for those that believe there's no matte a maðic formulations in ancient's crypt! (there's that wonderful "chi" again, the spark) It's like we we able to emote a light thought ... then who in Romantic History would admit to a greater mind than thou? Beyond conspiratorial power of the conquest ... no cooperation required ... hear! Such could be the death of gods ... in the pedestrian case! (foot of the column) ...
Just for a giggle from the depths ...
From: (In Fin-ite BUSS-t, Bo'as De Nous) metaphorical KISS?
Mon Athæst; Leaving the Light, Fore Unknown Rationale …
(Moe Naught heist?)
Lifted out of the void …
Not a light poe Lem …
No light load, the plasma shoved by heart …
In Complex Field seen by few …
Without imagination, an alien kind of fire …
Rueben through the vessels …
Bleeding constantly, energy of continuum …
Being converted as kinetics alter!
Sometimes just, rapture; manna ‘ve matter as thorn …
Taken away from all this in sophisticated well-bred stuffing …
That man can’t follow, without, in Egos …
That’s return, the come back at çha …
Like Black Cat in the Shadows …
Satyr of the mind in the greatest creation of Goan gah Din …
Quiet space in all the dissonance …
That’s the devil, always was here, as dies Ire Addah …
And mortal required a bit, a piece, of vite …
To get eM started individually as Edom: Eddie Kiss Meis Knight …
The Red-faced laid-Ξ, chi’s the word wrote in plasma …
Pas in through your heart …
You’ll know when encountered …
For shoul be a Pæn, until awash …
Just to let you know your course has been altered …
The price of incidence with de void …
A point found in rapture, Eros of white …
About witch all else begins to churn …
Until she throws the point back at yah …
And the world begins to spin once again!
But don’t tell anyone …
For under Romantic Law …
You are not supposed to emote …
Nor be aware of it …
Thus real people phoqah up in Numbers …
While the Emma Jinn Eire …
Sloe down and dance on the surface of vite aL stuff …
That’s whoa mon …
The Ur (or other side of bull) on mire hearth harass’d …
Where she intends to cook the meat …
Un-tilt end Eire ‘d Γae …
That’s attached to all that surrounds …
Running ruagh lie par …
Allal to Webster’s expression for intellect …
Something that’s beyond the willies, or wilful …
Something has to be given, or spilt like mile ken’s Dutch gilders …
Wee near to god to thee, rich man finds another Love, loses sole!
But many wouldn’t process the reason why …
As they were led to believe in mortal words …
That we weren’t supposed to know …
The tree in the garden, for it would make Am’ns (J’ Aimz) …
Nearer bi god to thee than Joan …
And that’s ass un-rational as man can get …
When he loses all heis got into the one nearest Tθom …
Beautiful casket, as he KISS’s ID gutte bi,, chez got eM, cheeky devil’s burry din alien Terre a Tory as Eire’din Elle …
Darrel Tessier
Wow, Waterbouy your creative
Posted on: 08/25/2011 23:33
Wow, Waterbouy your creative energy is impressive!
Just to add to this debate...
There have been a number of cases (sorry... don't have the sources at my fingertips) where a patient is being operated on (one case I recall the pt was in an induced coma) and they flatline - no brain activity! However, they do have, as reported later, a vivid, conscious experience and are hyper-alert and lucid with the experience displaying a crisp continuity of events, ie., not any type of known hallucinatory experience, from a vantage point "outside the body" of the pt. The pt may even refer to conversation taking place in the OR which is later confirmed by the medical team! I'm sure some of you have heard of such cases classified in the literature as Near Death Experiences (NDEs).Let your synapses fire back an answer to that one!
I've just moved into a new apartment recently and all my papers, books, journals, etc. are still in storage. I'm going to have to drag myself into the locker area and go through the many boxes stored there. I can see that there are too many sharp minds out there!
Mind = the collection/spectrum of conscious states/experiences we attribute to a person! Tentative definition of mind just popped out of my brain! Ah... there go those synapses firing off to produce that thought, er... I mean electro-chemical impulse!
Darrel Tessier
BTW... regarding Aldous
Posted on: 08/25/2011 23:38
BTW... regarding Aldous Huxley's "Mind at Large" from his essay, "The Doors of Perception" (which is where the Jim Moirrison's band, The Doors, took their name; Huxley swiped the phrase from William Blake!)
Mind transcends its physical limits. The brain acts as a filter for the Mind. The brain provides a focus and filters out most of the stimuli it receives for survival purposes. The source of the mind may resemble a field. The brain is like a radio set. It can transmit the signal but the signal originates at the "station" - the "source" of the signal. If the radio is damaged, yes, the signal will be distorted or even lost entirely. But the station does not exist inside the radio.
When science discovers "the field" (we're close to this discovery it seems, on many levels) we will look back at the materialist, reductionist model they way we now look amusingly at "primitive tribesmen" who, when first hearing a phonograph player brought by an explorer, thought the voices originated inside the phonograph! This model explains many anomalies regarding non-ordinary states of consciousness. Brain activity is analogous to but not limited by the mind. Its a two way relationship but mind is primary. Neuroplasticity points to this two-way relationship between mind and brain.
Happy Genius
Mendalla wrote: I don't
Posted on: 08/25/2011 23:42
I don't agree that saying that consciousness/mind is a product of brain function "reduces" it. Rather, it elevates that brain function and shows us just much complexity is really possible in a material universe. I think human consciousness is one of the wonders of existence even if it is the result of chemistry and physics rather than being some phenomenon (natural or supernatural) in its own right. And, if you believe in a God, it's in that wonderful complexity that you will find that God, not in some transcendant heaven.
Mendalla
Interesting. As a devote of conjecture I hereby posit:
There are 33,576 distinct levels of awareness in existence.
Anti- particles are aware of 'jump time'
Strings to elongation and various knots.
Electrons to orbits permissible
Probably it is 10-12 or so levels till human consciousness is reached.
Couple of more jumps before wars are abandoned
Couple more before immortality is reached.
Couple after that, and we learn what "I believe in God" means
Hey, look forward to a great future!!
The next few million years are going to be crazy good.
And this very minute is the very best so far.
WaterBuoy
Heh, HG, That's presence
Posted on: 08/26/2011 05:52
Heh, HG,
That's presence awareness, one step ahead of your self ... creates a shock wave in the real world ... what a pain! People don't really like to know this stuff ... so feed it toem in a useless story ... or so ID appears ... but ITs deeper than that ... like the pool below the vessel ... eve in if chi's faulted ... wise cracks? Gives the unaware a great Reuben ... second point of the 4-ruagh winds ... sum emotional-enlightening thing ...
Happy Genius
WaterBuoy wrote: Heh,
Posted on: 08/26/2011 10:02
Heh, HG,
That's presence awareness, one step ahead of your self ... creates a shock wave in the real world ... what a pain! People don't really like to know this stuff ... so feed it toem in a useless story ... or so ID appears ... but ITs deeper than that ... like the pool below the vessel ... eve in if chi's faulted ... wise cracks? Gives the unaware a great Reuben ... second point of the 4-ruagh winds ... sum emotional-enlightening thing ...
Crackeljazness, but I think I understood a part of your post. A little. Some what, Maybe.
4 ruagh winds...is nice.
"What a pain!" ?
What a pleasure!
Why fight or contend with what is mere perception and has, ultimately, little to do with reality?.
I like the world I got. I think I'll keep it.
Cheers!