Christianity: Whats the point?
Posted on: 01/11/2009 03:33
Hi,
I am 16 years old and have a lot of trouble believing in Christianity. Everytime i attend church i'm only told a new way i'm going to hell. i'm never told how to get into what seems more and more like a VIP club called heaven. I've been told that if im truley sorry than i have a chance but im not. i never felt bad for anything i did. I was also told that sex was a sin, and i couldn't tell if it was to scare me away from doing it or if it was true and i would go to hell if i thought of women in a innapropriate maner. Then the final nail was put in my coffin when i gathered from a bible verse that my adopted fathers death was my fault. This caused me to give up on god for several years. Then i returned and became a confirmed member of my church. this decision was not mine alone though. My adopted mother pushed me into it. Then, after being confirmed, I completely stopped attending church. A few weeks later i told my mother about my religious views, that there were none.
It began to seem that anytime i turned to Christianity hardship befell me. I now need help answering the following questions. any help would be greatly appreciated.
- Why was religion created?
- How can i follow this religion when i've only been hurt by it?
- How can i get into heaven?
- Is god sorry for whats happened to me?
- Who is causing me so much sadness, God or Satan?
- Will Satan love me if im evil enough?
- Will sex really be my one way ticket to hell?
- Is Sunday school brainwashing?
I need help.
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Comments
revjohn
Hi Mouse, Mouse
Posted on: 01/30/2009 07:36
Hi Mouse,
Revjohn, I never knew an ass could act so... consciously?
Well if colons can be spastic . . .
I suppose the old standby of, "With God all things are possible" applies.
Grace and peace to you.
John
blackbelt
Witch wrote: I'm starting to
Posted on: 01/30/2009 13:22
I'm starting to have a few doubts about something here.
I've never really agreed with much of what BB had to say. I certainly never agreed with the attitude that the best way to witness was with a heavy blunt object to the head. Still I always assumed that he had a basic knowledge of the Bible ans Christian doctrine.
Yet this debacle has made me wonder and look back a bit. I mean, let's face it, the story of Balaam's Ass is a common enough sunday school story that practically every Christian child knows it, and knows it's the Ass who is the hero of the story. I still remember it well, even though it's been a couple of decades since I was a Christian, and a couple of decades before that that I was in Sunday School.
And looking back through some of our other conversations, his flip flops around some very basic topics, his confusion of what I would consider basic terminology, his lack of knowlege of the original languages, and Bible history, and now his complete miss on what is a core OT Bible story...
I'm starting to wonder how long BB has been stringing us along? I'm rather doubtful he really has even a basic knowledge of the Bible, or of Christianity, that he pretends to be the expert on.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid. Maybe I'm the only one having these doubts? I don't know.
i cant believe your still blowing steam out of me calling you an ass! have I botherd you that much?
ROFLMAO
Mate
I remember seeing movies
Posted on: 01/30/2009 20:24
I remember seeing movies about Francis the talking mule. Seems she was a bright ass. LOL
Shalom
Mate
killer_rabbit79
Mouse wrote: Revjohn,
Posted on: 01/31/2009 00:57
Revjohn, I never knew an ass could act so... consciously?
The story is fiction. The ancient Hebrews were very fond of mythology, as were most cultures at the time.
Witch
blackbelt wrote: i cant
Posted on: 01/31/2009 04:44
i cant believe your still blowing steam out of me calling you an ass! have I botherd you that much?
ROFLMAO
No. actually I'm just musing over your lack of basic bible knowledge. Nice try though BB, well pathetic try really, but it's what I've learned to expect.
If you really want to address the issue, feel free to let us know how you made a mistake no sunday school child would have.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 01/31/2009 13:41
i cant believe your still blowing steam out of me calling you an ass! have I botherd you that much?
ROFLMAO
No. actually I'm just musing over your lack of basic bible knowledge. Nice try though BB, well pathetic try really, but it's what I've learned to expect.
If you really want to address the issue, feel free to let us know how you made a mistake no sunday school child would have.
o come on stop lying, you know your pissed that i called you an ass LOL
milking the cow still
Neo
This Topic: What's the
Posted on: 01/31/2009 13:58
This Topic: What's the point?
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Hello V.S.... Wow, I sure
Posted on: 01/31/2009 14:25
Hello V.S....
Wow, I sure am sorry to hear you somehow took from the Bible that your adopted fathers death was your fault (unless... you know... you actually did murder him... which I doubt.)
Despite what you might hear some say, Heaven is not a V.I.P. club. Everyone can decide to enter the golden gates. All one must do is to receive God's free gift of salvation made possible by Jesus. You can accept salvation this very day.
Why was religion created? I suppose that would depend on what you mean by "religion." Man enjoyed fellowship with God at the time God first created him. We did fall away, but God has continually made Himself known to us that we might worship Him.
How can you follow this religion when you've only been hurt by it? Others may have hurt you using religion as a weapon, but that doesn't mean that the religion itself is wrong. Throughout history people have used religions as an excuse to harm, but Christianity still remains valid.
How can you get into heaven? You must acknowledge your sin, repent from it, and trust in Jesus to save you from it. Receive the free gift of entering into Heaven which God offers to one and all. Ask Jesus into your heart.
Is God sorry for whats happened to you? He may be sad about some of the ways others have treated you. God, himself, however, has done nothing wrong. He has no reason to feel personally sorry.
Who is causing you so much sadness, God or Satan? God may be calling you to repentence. Satan may be attacking you, trying to keep away from you what is best for you. The sadness may also be, at least in part, coming from your own spirit within.
Will Satan love you if you're evil enough? No. Satan doesn't love. Satan only hates. Hate, hate, hate, that's the name of his game. God loves one and all. Satan only seeks to destroy.
Will sex really be your one way ticket to hell? The wages of sin is death, eternal death, hell. However, not all sex is sinful. Consentual sex with one's spouse (in traditional marriage) is loving and healthy, anything but a ticket to hell. Any sex other than that is sin: fornication, adultery, prostitution, incest, etc.
Is Sunday school brainwashing? A good Christian Sunday school is anything but. I recommend going to Sunday school at a friendly neighborhood Baptist church.
Hope that helps. Peace in Christ.
Witch
-jubilee- wrote: (in
Posted on: 01/31/2009 15:12
(in traditional marriage)... Any sex other than that is sin:
In your opinion. Sex before marriage, which I believe is the original question, is not sin according to the Bible.
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Witch wrote: Sex before
Posted on: 01/31/2009 15:26
Sex before marriage, which I believe is the original question, is not sin according to the Bible.
Can't agree with you there. Please see http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_love.htm .
Peace in Christ.
Atheisto
-jubilee- wrote: Witch
Posted on: 01/31/2009 16:14
Sex before marriage, which I believe is the original question, is not sin according to the Bible.
Can't agree with you there. Please see http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_love.htm .
Peace in Christ.
Good job that's irrelevant in a modern society then innit? I'm not sure you can still get train tickets back to the Middle Ages...sorry.
killer_rabbit79
-jubilee- wrote: Can't agree
Posted on: 01/31/2009 23:35
Can't agree with you there. Please see http://www.carm.org/questions/sex_love.htm .
Those quotes are all very shaky and rely on the accuracy of the translations.
In the Stephanus New Testament (Greek) the word that has been translated here into "fornicatons" is, "πορνειαι" or in Latin letters, "porneiai". Could someone who knows Greek confirm what this word means (not that I don't have any guesses)?
Using Google translator, I was able to get from Stephanus' version of this: "apechesthai eidolothyton and blood and pniktou and prostitution of which maintained themselves so well errosthe" (emphasis mine). It seems that this passage specifically refers to prostitution, not sex outside of marriage in general (fornication).
For verse 9 in Stephanus, Google translator found this: "the indispensable oidate themselves wronged my kingdom sulfur klironomisousin not planasthe or pornography or paynim moichoi or neither soft nor arsenokoitai" (emphasis mine). Again, we are not talking about fornication.
The word that translates to "pornography" in this verse is, "πορνοι", which looks very similar to "πορνειαι" (the untranslatable word from the first passage).
Again in this passage, Google translator finds the word "pornography" and not "fornicator". This time, the word is "πορνους".
Based on these translation from a Greek version of the New Testament, I do not believe that any of these passages are talking about fornication, but are more specifically talking about prostitution and pornography. Therefore, sex outside of marriage is not condemned by any of these passages.
Witch
CARM gives an opinion, but
Posted on: 01/31/2009 23:52
CARM gives an opinion, but one which is obviously biased towards maintaining the priesthood control over sex. CARM's opinion makes braod conclusions from speculation, but doesn't get down to specifics. The major flaw is the speculation that the words translated into the KJV as "Fornication" refer to sex before marriage. They don't.
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Now most of this post is written to those who claim to believe in a literal Bible. As such it speaks to literal meanings. Those of you who are not literal absoluteists may not find the subject to be as much of a problem, but I invite your comments anyways (not that you need my permission). You may even find the study somewhat helpful.
I originally wrote the study shortly after I left Bible seminary.
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Fornication does not mean "premarital sex". Fornication literally means, "sexual immorality". Proof of this comes from the Bible itself.
Matthew 19:9
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Obviously a married woman cannot have "premarital sex" since she is married. Thus the contention that fornication is just another word for premarital sex is shown to be false. So then what does it mean? The details are very important in this case.
To get a proper view of the intent of the original text, it is necessary to return to the original languages. The words in the original Greek and Hebrew that are translated as "fornication" in our English versions are
Hebrew
02181 zanah {zaw-naw'}
08457 taznuwth {taz-nooth'}
Greek
1608 ekporneuo {ek-porn-yoo'-o}
4202 porneia {por-ni'-ah}
4203 porneuo {porn-yoo'-o}
Now neither of these word roots mean premarital sex, or even refer to a lack of chastity. An actual literal translation of either is "sexual immorality".
"Same thing!!" you say? Perhaps to those not used to rightly dividing the Bible.
We have seen that the words used in the original languages refer to sexual immorality. One has to define what constitutes sexual immorality in order to label any particular act or activity as fornication. Fortunatly the Bible does define sexual immorality in extremely precise detail.
Leviticus 18 specifically details what things are permissable and forbidden sexually. There are "thou shalt nots" for every thing from bestiality, to homosexuality, to incest, to marrying widows. The passage even goes so far as a specific "thou shalt not" for sex during menstruation, a pretty specific detail in my mind.
Yet in all that passage, and indeed in all the Bible, there is no "thou shalt not", nor even any reasonable equivalent, for premarital sex. If God went into such great detail and specifics to define sexual immorality to the point that even the times of the month are specified, one would think that something as common and broad as premarital sex would have rated at least a passing mention too? The only logical reason for that activity to have been left out is that God simply did not intend for it to be forbidden (unless, of course, you think God made a mistake?).
So now that we see that premarital sex is not forbidden in the Bible, one must ask... Why have some Christians taken to adding to the Bible that particular stricture, indeed making it almost paramount above all others, without it being in "God's Word"? I don't know. Perhaps you should ask St. Augustine. It was his uptight attitude which seemed to be the start of this puritanical fallacy.