This is a PBS clip from their series, "The Bible's Buried Secrets", which follows archaeological discoveries related to the bible. Further interviews with the archaeologist discussing the prevalence of goddess worship among the Israelites can be seen here:
www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/dever.html
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Comments
Arminius
Of course God had a wife, it
Posted on: 07/05/2010 22:53
Of course God had a wife, it says so in the Proverbs of Solomon. Her name was Sophia or Sapienta, a.k.a. wisdom. We humans have named our species, Homo sapiens, after her.
When he prepared the heavens, I was there...When he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him, and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
-Proverbs 8:27-32
Judd
If God wanted a wife, God
Posted on: 07/05/2010 07:22
If God wanted a wife, God would have one. What part of "omnipotent" do people not understand.
Stop anthropomorphising God.
gecko46
Maybe we should be asking,
Posted on: 07/05/2010 10:08
Maybe we should be asking, "Did God have a husband?"
oui
So, what does everyone think
Posted on: 07/05/2010 11:10
So, what does everyone think about the direct link of "YHWH and his Asherah" in the 8th century inscription, shown in the video, and the thousands of Asherah figurines found in Jewish towns covering a period of many centuries?
My understanding of omnipotent is
om·nip·o·tent
–adjective
1. almighty or infinite in power, as God.
blackbelt
oui wrote: So, what does
Posted on: 07/05/2010 11:24
So, what does everyone think about the direct link of "YHWH and his Asherah" in the 8th century inscription, shown in the video, and the thousands of Asherah figurines found in Jewish towns covering a period of many centuries?
Not all the Jews in scrpiture were Gods children, only the hebrew people were
joejack2
Normal 0
Posted on: 07/05/2010 14:19
Normal
0
ApologeticsPress.org offers the following consideration: You may consult ApologeticsPress.org for confirmation of this material. I offer the following for the same of discussion.
“Although people in the ancient Near East were accustomed to a plethora of deities, they understood the concept of a single god very early. Looking back at Egyptian history, there was a time when Egypt had something like monotheism during the reign of pharaoh Akhenaten (1350-1334 B.C.). The “heretic pharaoh” adopted the worship of the Aten (the Sun disc) as the sole god of Egypt, and went so far as to chisel off the plural word “gods” (ntrw) from monuments. This Egyptian version of monotheism dates back to the 14th century B.C., close to the time of Moses. The Hymn to the Aten, composed by Akhenaten himself, praises the Aten with language that sounds remarkably reminiscent of Psalm 104. Another important consideration is that monotheism existed—conceptually, at least—in some of the oldest Egyptian sources. For example, in the Egyptian creation stories, the Egyptians believed there was a time in which only the primordial god Amun existed. Although Amun went on to create other gods in the Egyptian myths, the concept of monotheism existed early in Egyptian thought. The assertion of the documentary that monotheism was strictly a late Jewish invention is untrue.”
I've become somewhat dissilusioned with Nova recently because it seems they target the sensational. But, whatever pays the bills......
oui
blackbelt, and joejack2,
Posted on: 07/05/2010 15:22
blackbelt, and joejack2, this is an excerpt from the archeaologist William Dever, who found the inscriptions:
"
THE ISRAELITES' MANY GODS
Q: The Bible would have us think that all Israelites embraced monotheism relatively early, from Moses's time on. Is that contrary to what archeology has found?
Dever: The portrait of Israelite religion in the Hebrew Bible is the ideal, the ideal in the minds of those few who wrote the Bible—the elites, the Yahwists, the monotheists. But it's not the ideal for most people. And archeology deals with the ordinary, forgotten folk of ancient Israel who have no voice in the Bible. There is a wonderful phrase in Daniel Chapter 12: "For all those who sleep in the dust." Archeology brings them to light and allows them to speak. And most of them were not orthodox believers.
However, we should have guessed already that polytheism was the norm and not monotheism from the biblical denunciations of it. It was real and a threat as far as those who wrote the Bible were concerned. And today archeology has illuminated what we could call "folk religion" in an astonishing manner.
"The so-called folk religion even penetrated the Temple in Jerusalem."
Q: One of the astonishing things is your discovery of Yahweh's connection to Asherah. Tell us about that.
Dever: In 1968, I discovered an inscription in a cemetery west of Hebron, in the hill country, at the site of Khirbet el-Qôm, a Hebrew inscription of the 8th century B.C.E. It gives the name of the deceased, and it says "blessed may he be by Yahweh"—that's good biblical Hebrew—but it says "by Yahweh and his Asherah."
Asherah is the name of the old Canaanite Mother Goddess, the consort of El, the principal deity of the Canaanite pantheon. So why is a Hebrew inscription mentioning Yahweh in connection with the Canaanite Mother Goddess? Well, in popular religion they were a pair.
The Israelite prophets and reformers denounce the Mother Goddess and all the other gods and goddesses of Canaan. But I think Asherah was widely venerated in ancient Israel. If you look at Second Kings 23, which describes the reforms of King Josiah in the late 7th century, he talks about purging the Temple of all the cult paraphernalia of Asherah. So the so-called folk religion even penetrated the Temple in Jerusalem.
Q: Is there other evidence linking Asherah to Yahweh?
Dever: In the 1970s, Israeli archeologists digging in Kuntillet Ajrud in the Sinai found a little desert fort of the same period, and lo and behold, we have "Yahweh and Asherah" all over the place in the Hebrew inscriptions.
Q: Are there any images of Asherah?
Dever: For a hundred years now we have known of little terracotta female figurines. They show a nude female; the sexual organs are not represented but the breasts are. They are found in tombs, they are found in households, they are found everywhere. There are thousands of them. They date all the way from the 10th century to the early 6th century.
They have long been connected with one goddess or another, but many scholars are still hesitant to come to a conclusion. I think they are representations of Asherah, so I call them Asherah figurines.
Q: There aren't such representations of Yahweh, are there?
Dever: No. Now, why is it that you could model the female deity but not the male deity? Well, I think the First and Second Commandments by now were taken pretty seriously. You just don't portray Yahweh, the male deity, but the Mother Goddess is okay. But his consort is probably a lesser deity.
We found molds for making Asherah figurines, mass-producing them, in village shrines. So probably almost everybody had one of these figurines, and they surely have something to do with fertility. They were no doubt used to pray for conceiving a child and bearing the child safely and nursing it. It's interesting to me that the Israelite and Judean ones are rather more modest than the Canaanite ones, which are right in your face. The Israelite and Judean ones mostly show a nursing mother.
Q: This has been something of a lightning rod, has it not?
Dever: This is awkward for some people, the notion that Israelite religion was not exclusively monotheistic. But we know now that it wasn't. Monotheism was a late development. Not until the Babylonian Exile and beyond does Israelite and Judean religion—Judaism—become monotheistic."
oui
joejack2, I'm quite familiar
Posted on: 07/05/2010 15:48
joejack2, I'm quite familiar with the Akhenaten story, however that is perhaps best addressed in a separate thread.
I would like to stick with the topic here of the extensive archaeological evidence of pervasive goddess worship recently found in ancient Judah and Israel, during the time when monotheism was already well established.
There are apparently many bible references to Asherah. Author Judith M. Hadley, "The Cult of Asherah in Ancient Judah and Israel:
Evidence for a Hebrew Goddess", mentions:
Judges 3-7 "The Israelites did evil in the eyes of the LORD; they forgot the LORD their God and served the Baals and the Asherahs",
1 Kings 15-13 "He even deposed his grandmother Maacah from her position as queen mother, because she had made a repulsive Asherah pole. Asa cut the pole down and burned it in the Kidron Valley."
2 Chronicles 15-16, "King Asa also deposed his grandmother Maacah from her position as queen mother, because she had made a repulsive Asherah pole. Asa cut the pole down, broke it up and burned it in the Kidron Valley"
1 Kings 18-19 "Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."
2 Kings 21-7 "He took the carved Asherah pole he had made and put it in the temple, of which the LORD had said to David and to his son Solomon, "In this temple and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, I will put my Name forever."
2 Kings 23-4-7, "The king ordered Hilkiah the high priest, the priests next in rank and the doorkeepers to remove from the temple of the LORD all the articles made for Baal and Asherah and all the starry hosts. He burned them outside Jerusalem in the fields of the Kidron Valley and took the ashes to Bethel.5 He did away with the pagan priests appointed by the kings of Judah to burn incense on the high places of the towns of Judah and on those around Jerusalem—those who burned incense to Baal, to the sun and moon, to the constellations and to all the starry hosts. 6 He took the Asherah pole from the temple of the LORD to the Kidron Valley outside Jerusalem and burned it there. He ground it to powder and scattered the dust over the graves of the common people. 7 He also tore down the quarters of the male shrine prostitutes, which were in the temple of the LORD and where women did weaving for Asherah."
GRR
As Judd notes, the question
Posted on: 07/05/2010 21:07
As Judd notes, the question presumes a "human"/gendered god.
An impossible discussion from my perspective. I could say "Is there an aspect of Theos that is most easily seen in what we would think of as the feminine?" and answer Yes.
But its a ridculously convoluted phrasing.
So "Did God have a Wife?"
What would the Consciousness of Creation do with one?
graeme
Why the use of the past tense
Posted on: 07/05/2010 21:49
Why the use of the past tense - "did". Are They divorced?
retiredrev
graeme wrote: Why the use of
Posted on: 07/05/2010 22:27
Why the use of the past tense - "did". Are They divorced?
Maybe they just decided to see other people, er, gods, whatever.
GRR
retiredrev wrote: graeme
Posted on: 07/05/2010 22:54
Why the use of the past tense - "did". Are They divorced?
Maybe they just decided to see other people, er, gods, whatever.
Is it still cheating if you're only seeing another aspect of yourself?
MC jae
Who would be a wife perfect
Posted on: 07/06/2010 06:17
Who would be a wife perfect enough for the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator God?
JRT
Dever made the point that
Posted on: 07/06/2010 06:36
Dever made the point that scripture reflects an ideal as believed and practiced by the elites and that what the common people believed and practiced was something else. As late as the sixth century popes were still appealing to people to stop worshipping the sun. This would have been the Mithraic cult of Sol Invictus.
Arminius
jae wrote: Who would be a
Posted on: 07/06/2010 09:53
Who would be a wife perfect enough for the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator God?
The omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator Goddess, of course!
When the Godhead split ITself into opposites, it split ITself into God and Goddess, into a feminine and masculine aspect of spirituality.
oui
JRT, I looked around to see
Posted on: 07/06/2010 13:16
JRT, I looked around to see what else Dever has published, and he has an interesting book called "Did God Have a Wife: Archaeology and Folk Religion",
www.amazon.ca/Have-Wife-Archaeology-Folk-Religion/dp/0802828523/ref=sr_1_7
where he mentions that what ancient scripture says does not match what is actually found in the ground from the same period. He spent 35 years digging in the Near East. What he calls "book religion" is primarily for the men, who were expected to go to synagogue, keep the Sabbath, and study the scriptures. It was for the literate elites.
These activities mostly excluded the women, who developed the "folk religion", common to the poor and largely illiterate masses. He says that it seems that men primarily studied and discussed theology, whereas the women seem more into doing things more intuitively to express their spirituality, like ritual.
The link above provides an actual look inside the book.
oui
Arminius wrote: The
Posted on: 07/06/2010 13:32
The omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator Goddess, of course!
When the Godhead split ITself into opposites, it split ITself into God and Goddess, into a feminine and masculine aspect of spirituality.
I agree!
I think that men and women experience spirituality differently, just as we experience life differently on so many other levels. That really should be no surprise, but it certainly seems to be, especially to men. However, considering that all the major religions have been dominated exclusively by male figures for some 2000 years, we perhaps just don't know any different any more.
This has left a gaping, unfulfilling spiritual hole for some women.
So now, we are presented with the reality that goddess worship was in full practice for many centuries within the Jewish religion, and Asherah was largely tolerated, even to the point where her items were in some temples, even having royal patrons such as the queen, as described in the bible.
I find it refreshing.
MC jae
Arminius wrote:The
Posted on: 07/06/2010 17:14
That would kind of complicate and confuse things, wouldn't it. I mean, which one would we follow? Which one would we place above the other? Which would be our all in all? Whom would be our judge? I believe God has good reasons for choosing to be a sole single entity. Really, I think the whole idea that God must have a counterpart as most of us do is nothing else than mere human arrogance.
oui
jae wrote: Arminius wrote:The
Posted on: 07/07/2010 10:55
That would kind of complicate and confuse things, wouldn't it. I mean, which one would we follow? Which one would we place above the other? Which would be our all in all? Whom would be our judge? I believe God has good reasons for choosing to be a sole single entity. Really, I think the whole idea that God must have a counterpart as most of us do is nothing else than mere human arrogance.
I think we would be free to follow whichever one speaks to us, however, both YHWH and Asherah were followed in the past at the same time, so perhaps that is an option too.
Why does one have to be "placed above the other"? Spirituality for many is structured more like a bush or tree, rather than a ladder.
No one on this earth really knows who would be our "judge" or even if we will be judged at all. I think that is a belief that is formed by and is entirely up to the individual. Anyway, doesn't the Creator of the universe have much better things to do?
I believe the writers of the biblical texts had a political reason to enforce the worship of a sole single entity God. The bible is clear that other gods exist, they are mentioned repeatedly, some like Asherah and Baal, specifically by name. So, God did not choose to be a sole entity. I think the priests who wrote the texts made that choice.
I think the arrogance was on the part of the writers/enforcers to push their beliefs/agendas onto to the general population, against their will. The evidence coming out of the ground, for all to plainly see, is that Asherah had a healthy following within the Jewish community for many centuries, which came to an abrupt end.
To me 2 represents balance and a dimensional complexity unavailable to 1. For example, all digital language is made up of only the numbers 1 and 0, which can be combined endlessly to form endless strings of digital information. This is not possible by using only 1 or 0 alone.
Witch
blackbelt wrote: oui
Posted on: 07/07/2010 11:05
So, what does everyone think about the direct link of "YHWH and his Asherah" in the 8th century inscription, shown in the video, and the thousands of Asherah figurines found in Jewish towns covering a period of many centuries?
Not all the Jews in scrpiture were Gods children, only the hebrew people were
What Jews in scripture were not Hebrew?
joejack2
[quote=oui] joejack2, I'm
Posted on: 07/07/2010 11:49
[quote=oui]
joejack2, I'm quite familiar with the Akhenaten story, however that is perhaps best addressed in a separate thread.
/[quote]
Perfect evasive tactic.
Witch
jae wrote: Arminius wrote:The
Posted on: 07/07/2010 12:16
That would kind of complicate and confuse things, wouldn't it.
Doesn't seem to for millions of polytheists the world over.
Why is it necessary to follow only one?
Why is it necessary to place one above the other?
Why not both?
Why would you need a judge?
I believe the idea that God cannot have a counterpart is mere human arrogance. Just because we seem to need to have a "my daddy is bigger than your daddy" competition, doesn't mean God has to participate.
oui
joejack2]</p> <p>[quote=oui]<
Posted on: 07/07/2010 13:52
Perfect evasive tactic.
The original topic is not about the origins of monotheism, but rather the implications of the archaeological discoveries of texts directly linking YHWH with "his Asherah", and the thousands of Asherah figurines that have been excavated in ancient Judah and Israel.
I'd be happy to discuss Akhenaten and the beginnings of monotheism if you would like to start a thread about that.
MC jae
Witch wrote:jae wrote:Whom
Posted on: 07/07/2010 13:54
Why would you need a judge?
There is now no condemnation for me. I am now in Christ Jesus.
GRR
jae wrote: Who would be a
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:04
Who would be a wife perfect enough for the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator God?
Zeus' wife was Hera wasn't she?
MC jae
GoldenRule wrote: jae
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:22
Who would be a wife perfect enough for the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator God?
Zeus' wife was Hera wasn't she?
Your point being what? You worship the same God I do which, as memory serves, isn't Zeus.
Witch
jae wrote: Witch wrote:jae
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:25
Why would you need a judge?
There is now no condemnation for me. I am now in Christ Jesus.
OK that explains why YOU don't need a judge. It does nothing to explain why I, or anyone else, would need one, as your original objection to the OP seems to purport.
Witch
jae wrote: GoldenRule
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:27
Who would be a wife perfect enough for the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator God?
Zeus' wife was Hera wasn't she?
Your point being what? You worship the same God I do which, as memory serves, isn't Zeus.
WEll according to your particular beleifs. Many Christians believe that Zeus is the same God, just using the name by which another society knew Himn.
MC jae
Witch wrote: WEll according
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:37
WEll according to your particular beleifs. Many Christians believe that Zeus is the same God, just using the name by which another society knew Himn.
Who are these "many" Christians? I have never heard of such a thing before.
To answer your other post, the majority of people on planet Earth will be condemned because of their choice to reject God's free offer of salvation through His Son.
Witch
jae wrote: Witch wrote: WEll
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:40
WEll according to your particular beleifs. Many Christians believe that Zeus is the same God, just using the name by which another society knew Himn.
Who are these "many" Christians? I have never heard of such a thing before.
I'm sure you have, you just didn't consider the implications.
Many non-literalist, progressive Christians, who are the majority BTW, believe that there are many paths to God and that Christianity is but one. They believe that God has many faces and that religions are more or less just ways that we relate to God, through different names and cultures.
The implication would be that the ancient peoples who worshipped Zeus were worshipping the Divine by another name than the one you know,
There are many Christians on this very board who have said they believe they and I worshipo the same God, despite the fact that my name(s) for the Divien are different.
MC jae
Witch wrote:Many
Posted on: 07/07/2010 14:43
Those people are not Christians. True followers of Jesus Christ know that he is the way, the truth, the life, the only path to God. They know that being a Christian is not about a religion, but rather a relationship. And they know the gods of the nations (that is to say gods other than the one true one) are idols.
Thank you for your answer to my question.
blackbelt
jae wrote: Witch wrote:Many
Posted on: 07/07/2010 15:27
Those people are not Christians. True followers of Jesus Christ know that he is the way, the truth, the life, the only path to God. They know that being a Christian is not about a religion, but rather a relationship. And they know the gods of the nations (that is to say gods other than the one true one) are idols.
Thank you for your answer to my question.
altho , i wont judge on who's a Christian and who is not, i will agree that Jesus is the only way and all other systems are not of God.
the saying : to me "All paths lead to God" is a lie from the pit of hell
GRR
jae wrote: True followers of
Posted on: 07/07/2010 15:34
True followers of Jesus Christ know that he is the way, the truth, the life, the only path to God. .
So now you insult me by inferring I'm a not a "true follower" of Jesus Christ???????????
You literalists jump into the lake of hubris at every opportunity I guess.
GRR
blackbelt wrote: altho , i
Posted on: 07/07/2010 15:35
altho , i wont judge on who's a Christian and who is not, i will agree that Jesus is the only way and all other systems are not of God.
the saying : to me "All paths lead to God" is a lie from the pit of hell
"I won't judge who.." and "to me.. " are fair and welcome qualifications blackie.
Thanks
David
GRR
jae wrote: GoldenRule
Posted on: 07/07/2010 15:37
Who would be a wife perfect enough for the omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omnipresent Creator God?
Zeus' wife was Hera wasn't she?
Your point being what? You worship the same God I do which, as memory serves, isn't Zeus.
My point, before you condemned me as an untrue Christian - lol - was that "God" has no gender, so the discussion of whether "he" has/had a "wife" is ridiculous.
joejack2
Did they have any kids? In
Posted on: 07/07/2010 15:40
Did they have any kids? In case of divorce, who would get custody? Is alimony involved? These questions would keep anyone up at night!
Greatest I am
If God has a wife, one must
Posted on: 07/07/2010 15:53
If God has a wife, one must wonder what She thinks of God and virgins and bastard sons.
Some think that God created many earth type planets. One must then wonder how many bastard son's God has.
Further, if on earth as it is in heaven is to have any meaning, then on earth, all parents want their children to meet or do better than what the parent is.
To think then that God would want less for His earthly children means that man's morals are better than God's.
His, do it my way or burn forever says that He wants slaves for Himself and wants to be a slave master as opposed to a Father.
Even here, most men would give up their lives for their children but in heaven, God would rather send His son to die than step up Himself.
A God without morals, I would say.
Regards
DL
Regards
DL
blackbelt
Dl wrote: a god without
Posted on: 07/07/2010 16:01
Dl wrote:
a god without morals , i would say.
--------------------------------------------
A DL without brains I would say.
InannaWhimsey
blackbelt wrote: Dl wrote: a
Posted on: 07/07/2010 16:17
Dl wrote:
a god without morals , i would say.
--------------------------------------------
A DL without brains I would say.
Your slip is showing, m'dear :3
blackbelt
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 07/07/2010 16:21
Dl wrote:
a god without morals , i would say.
--------------------------------------------
A DL without brains I would say.
Your slip is showing, m'dear :3
o I dont wear slips
Witch
jae wrote: Witch wrote:Many
Posted on: 07/07/2010 16:38
Those people are not Christians.
Does God know that you've claimed the right to tell Him who is, and who is not, His Christians?
If God disagrees with you, is God then also a sockpuppet of GR?
When God refuses to follow your strictures on whom He may say is a Christian, how do you go about disciplining Him?
Just asking...
Yes, we understand that you believe that. Other Christians, who also make the claim that they are true Christians, believe differently. Your claim is no better than theirs.
Oh man, not this used car sales slogan bullshit again. Really, if you guys are going to just redefine words at whim, could you at least acknowledge that you're not speaking English?
Ahhh denigrating other people's faith, religious hatred, prejudice and bigotry.... how very Christian of you. God must be so pleased......
Have you bothered to tell all these other people that they're not really Christians? I'm sure once you let them know they'll just toos away anmy pretence. After all, Jae is the authority on weho is a Christian. Who would dare contradict he who orders even God on who to save?
GRR
Witch wrote: jae wrote: Witch
Posted on: 07/07/2010 16:48
Those people are not Christians.
Does God know that you've claimed the right to tell Him who is, and who is not, His Christians?
If God disagrees with you, is God then also a sockpuppet of GR?
shhhh .... now look what you've done. Damn... guess I better whip up another flood *sigh*.
Of course, with all the oil in the water, I can probably get the 2-for-1 on the Lake of Fire.
MC jae
Witch wrote:Does God know
Posted on: 07/07/2010 17:02
I make no such claim. Read the Bible. In there, you can discover for yourself just who it is that God designates as being one of his own.
My assertion is Bible-based. Theirs comes from the loony left ideologies of humans.
Again, read the Bible. It's a really good book. The world's best seller (note, not The Book of Shadows). You might enjoy it.
Witch
jae wrote: Witch wrote:Does
Posted on: 07/07/2010 19:36
I make no such claim. Read the Bible. In there, you can discover for yourself just who it is that God designates as being one of his own.
Really? Of course what exactly the Bible says about that depends heavily on which variety of Christian you ask. You're particular interpretation of what the Bible has to say aboput who the "true" Christian is, just happens to coincide with the type of Christian you have chosen to be, in accordance with what you've chosen to believe of what you've been told.
What an incredible coincidence, eh?
My assertion is Bible-based. Theirs comes from the loony left ideologies of humans.
Yeah buit you see they also claim that theirs is based on the Bible and yours is based on the ideologies of humans. Strangely enough, Biblically speaking, their claim is just as good as yours.
Why should we believe your (and yes we know you want to pretend it's not yours) claim of Biblical truth, over theirs?
Again, read the Bible. It's a really good book. The world's best seller (note, not The Book of Shadows). You might enjoy it.
Yeah... you see I wasn't actually asking for the copout or the empty religious rhetoric.
I have read the Bible, obviously. I've studied it in great depth, boith as a Christian and a non-Christian. and apprently in greater depth than you, since I've taken the time and trouble to go back to the original languages.
So are you going to address any actual points any time soon? Or are you just going to further demonstrate your lack of abilioty to go beyond the traditions of men, in blindly following what you've been told about the Bible?
GRR
jae wrote: Quote:Yes, we
Posted on: 07/07/2010 19:34
My assertion is Bible-based. Theirs comes from the loony left ideologies of humans.
To be honest jae, I've usually found you, while your theology was far removed from my own, at least respectful. Statements like this, however, simply prove the point of people like hansen that it takes very little to turn harmless eccentricity into denigration and dismissal. From which, its a short step to persecution.
InannaWhimsey
blackbelt
Posted on: 07/07/2010 22:44
Dl wrote:
a god without morals , i would say.
--------------------------------------------
A DL without brains I would say.
Your slip is showing, m'dear :3
o I dont wear slips
Any time you call someone crazy, dumb, insane, stupid, an idiot, or someone's belief as such...you are ignoring your own crazy, dumb, inanse, stupid, idiotic self and beliefs.
The plank in your eye being so huge that we other partygoers have to avoid you.
Thus, 'your slip is showing' is a polite way :3
oui
GoldenRule wrote: jae
Posted on: 07/08/2010 00:16
My assertion is Bible-based. Theirs comes from the loony left ideologies of humans.
To be honest jae, I've usually found you, while your theology was far removed from my own, at least respectful. Statements like this, however, simply prove the point of people like hansen that it takes very little to turn harmless eccentricity into denigration and dismissal. From which, its a short step to persecution.
I agree with GR, so let's please keep it civil.
No one is asking anyone to change their beliefs, just expand on them, or possibly re-examine them, preferably politely and intelligently. Each one of us has as much equal right to believe what we do as everyone else here. Respect should be given, to be in turn received.
blackbelt
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 07/08/2010 00:46
Dl wrote:
a god without morals , i would say.
--------------------------------------------
A DL without brains I would say.
Your slip is showing, m'dear :3
o I dont wear slips
Any time you call someone crazy, dumb, insane, stupid, an idiot, or someone's belief as such...you are ignoring your own crazy, dumb, inanse, stupid, idiotic self and beliefs.
The plank in your eye being so huge that we other partygoers have to avoid you.
Thus, 'your slip is showing' is a polite way :3
i knew that,,, by the grace of God I am what I am
DL is still a nut
MC jae
Witch wrote:You're particular
Posted on: 07/08/2010 05:38
Yeah, that's right. It should also be noted, however, that it doesn't conincide with the type of person I used to be. I used to be a lost sinner. I had religion (belonged to the United Church of Canada), but lacked a true relationship with Jesus Christ.
We agree on the first part of your paragraph above.
To claim that other paths are equally valid ways to God is to discount the work of Jesus Christ on behalf of humanity. No true Christian would do that. To say that there are other roads to take is to leave countless thousands on the false roads they are travelling which end only in destruction. No true Christian, who knows the one right road, would allow that risk without giving warning.
http://answers.org/apologetics/onlyway.html
MC jae
GoldenRule wrote:To be honest
Posted on: 07/08/2010 05:39
Thank you for the compliment.