What?? You've given up on the idea that God created everything? The cafe must be corrupting you young fella. 

What is there to resolve? The majority of Christendom long ago outgrew justifying prejudice and bigotry by twisting the Message of Christ.

Well, thank goodness we have you handy to define how God is permitted to Create besh.

Sorry son, haven't yanked your chain in ages.

AH but what if your base theological position fits in a more conservative church but you also happen to be gay?

Well, you either have to switch your sexual orientation or your church, whichever is easier.

Usually, the latter is easier.

That's true. I thought it was a beautiful article, I really loved it, but I found myself strongly hoping that she finds a nice affirming congregation that will give her a good CHRIST centered church home. Luckily there are more and more options, United Church of CHRIST, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Metropolitan Community Church, and probably a blue dozen others.

Also I have to say that "Oranges are not the only fruit" is a great movie. It's British and some people appreciate that better than others, but it's definitely worth seeing. The love between the young ladies in the movies feels very true.

Lastly I have a good article on Jennifer Knapp which let me know that Ray Boltz is gay too. He was very popular in the church I grew up in. Sadly I doubt he still is and that's a shame.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/16/jennifer.knapp.gay/index.html

What makes you think God is not in control of what looks to us like "fortuitous events, random events, and general chance..."? I certainly believe that He is.

Personally, beshpin, I believe that both are true.

Beshpin said  "

While all things were made by god (see the big bang), they are not put together by him directly. Any theology that negates or ignores the effects of fortuitous events, random events, and general chance in lieu of god needs to rethink what they are talking about. Either humans are free to make choices and interact with their environment or they are within a completely closed system that only works when god turns the crank."

I agree theological that God did not make me biologically.  However, God loves diversity and so in my theology God welcomes gays etal.  I also do not want to do biological reductionism to find the gay gene or whatever is the 'cause' for that is also a problematic search. 

To reject gays is a theological mistake and it will be hard for some conservatives to remain in churches that say homosexality is a sin.  Either they have to change their theology or find a church as Jon suggests that affrims both a conservative or evangelical turn and is affirming - This is happening/

It is not an either or - one can be christ centered ( to use that code word) and affirming of oneself as gay.   It is called a healthy world view.

You might think it would be the ones where the pastors were caught with male prostitutes, but as it turns out, they aren't affirming, either.

Amen

MCC is not conservative evangelical.

Here is a young evangelical conservative who is inclusive -Irrestible Revolution: living as an ordinary radical, by Shane Claiborne

Yes in the McLaren group - there is also a progressive emerging church movement - go to the big tent site on the web.

I know many gay and lesbian Christians who have stayed within their faith traditions .It is no different sometimes than a Roman Catholic differing with the pope on something and not choosing to quit mass, or those who disagreed on slavery or the role of women...

There are also those who make inroads within a denomination. like Gay Apostolic Petnecostals and the Association of Welcoming and Affirming Baptists or Evangelicals Concerned...

Look into places like Highland Church in Denver or Casa de Cristo in Pheonix

One might also recall that “Evangelicals” meant spreaders of the Good News... and then were during Reformation and were liberal protestants (Birtish, Dutch, German) in the 1730's and on into the late 19th century... They were those for whom the term ‘evangelical’ signified an attitude of tolerance, the antithesis of our current cultural definition. They touted social reform and abolition....These social progressives are recalled in many churches of various denominations by naming their building with Evangelical in their title and they still cherish educated inquiry, inclusive embrace, and the pursuit of peace.

Just because some people grabbed the evenagelical name and sullied it in the 20th century, does not mean it needs handed over to them.

Jae, you do know that the founder of the MCC was a Baptist minister, along with pastoring other conservative churches including Pentecostal, eh? His theology is quite actually conservative. He was moderator until 2005. Nancy Wilson is current moderator (yes they have only had 2). You can find MCC's that are extremely theologically conservative.

Dusty Pruitt is another from the Baptist tradition. I know her story well. She was US Army major and MCC pastor who did an inteview with the LA Times " Marching Out of the Closet" that saw her major ststus stripped and her discharged. Her appeal and court case saw her reinstated along with others.

People's theology can be conservative and them not be homophobic, just like people can have a liberal theology and still be homophobic.

Hi SG,

That's pretty interesting stuff. Perhaps you could post some links for me to conservative evangelical MCC congregations. Thanks. You're the best SG, the best.

Peace in Christ.

jae, this might help and then you can look for them if you so choose

http://www.agcmcc.org/about_mcc.htm

Hi Ichthys,

According to your beliefs, how is it possible for someone unborn to have Jesus in their heart? I don't think such a thing is possible. As they have never born I don't believe they have had the opportunity to accept Jesus.

Peace in Christ.

SC if I am correct the founder of MCC was a pentacostal - that does not change the points you have made.

I must say that as a very left wing democratic socialist mostly straight but always brave and open enough to act on my bi interests - when I was  single - I was never accepted by any form of straight society but was welcomed with interest and belief by the church of gay disco.

If it hadn't been for the church of gay disco, I would have found  impossible  and even more harsh, the transition between having basically healed from my mental health time trial  and recognising my massive left wing affirmation as not only essentially me but essentially the needs of the planet and medicine.  If it hadn't been for the church of gay disco I wouldn't have found comfort in the UCC second time round.  

What I discovered at the church of gay disco is that there really is a society which is too straight.  They often come in herds - they can be angry and mean or they can be well heeled and arrogant as hell, imagining that they are open minded and amaaaaaazingly bi curious while being both racist and class elitist as well as right wing ( and they take up all the room on the dance floor and all they want to do is spoon 'n" groove dance which is fun for a bit but ultimately so affected and kind of a waste of dance space after a while).

At the church of gay disco, I discovered the need to accept uptight right wing neoconformist gays in my ultra left wing church - thereby muddying the waters of the socialist directives of the prairie intellectuals of the former/early  UCC church.  Through merely accepting the plight of  ultra right wing neo conformist gays I learned to accept scary neoconformist & rigid straights; though I will always argue with both groups and never give in.   

At the church of gay disco I wore a tee shirt that reflected the words "pinko peuk" in the irridescent light which refered to my politics and my prefered method of healing )naturopathy.   I was always accepted and was able to find an in at the front of any line and women aren't even taken "seriously" at a gay disco.  

Shows me that humanity can accept any form of self-actualization and self-autonomy that is non-violent and we should just go from there.

I'm just going to quote this and leave it here.  No need to respond.