I will be overly generous and call that a questionable use of the genealogy.
explain please
Well my less generous response was poppycock.
It is an obvious case of forcing a passage to say something it was not intended to.
i understand the passage is saying another, but what about the meaning of the names? and how they form a sentence? do you think the names translated are translated in error? or just a coincidence
The Hebrew language being what it is, each of those names when taken as a word has several meanings and perhaps dozens of nuances dpending on factors such a tone and textual placement.
"Adam", for instance, can mean "Man" as the video suggests. It can also mean the Earth, or red clay.
Enosh can mean "mortal" but it can also mean "sick" or "poor health"
Not sure how he figures Cainan can mean "sorrow" but it does mean variously "increase in possession" or "aquisition of wealth" or possibly "offspring"
Mahalalel... well the video suggest that means "the blessed God" which is a rather big stretch, which I suppose the author had to make a few of so it would fit. It actually means variously "the praise for (or of) God" or "the madness of God". The root "halel" can mean loud praise, as in halellujah, or uncontrollable shouting. How he decided it meant The blessed God" is certainly a good question.
Jared can mean "descent", or it can mean "to pour out" as in the river Jordan.
Now the video suggest Enoch means "teaching". Right idea but wrong tense. Enoch actually refers to a past tense, and can mean "taught" or "dedicated" or "initiated". Hard to make the premise work if you use the correct tense though.
Methuselah can mean "His death shal bring, althought according to Jones and Bagster it would be better rendered as "When he (ie the soldier as per mat 1263) is dead it shall be sent" or alternatively "man with a javelin"
As far as Lamech goes, the word lmk doesn't actually occur in Hebrew, so translaters have had to do some guessworks as to the meaning, which gives us a very broad opinion of what it might mean based on similar roots. It could mean "a lowering" or "humiliation", which I guess is somewhat close to the video's "the despairing" but not really close enought to fit the pattern they want to purport. It can also mean "a strong young man"
The name Noah can mean "rest", but not as in the comfort kind of rest but more in lin e with "settling down in one place and establishing a home" kind of rest, which makes sense considering the story. Noah can also mean a type of rest with overtonmes of finality, like "victory" or 'salvation"
So if one cherry picks all the meanings you wnat for the names, and gets them lined up just right, and ignores tenses and more obvious meanings, it's possible they can mean what the video suggests.
It can also mean "Make sure and launder off the red clay on Friday, so you have clean underwear for the Sabbath"
Or anyone of a hundred other made up meanings by stringing together words from a passage you want to be more significant than it probably is.
Sources:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. Moody Press Chicago.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament
A Comprehensible etymological dictionary of the Hebrew language for readers of english. By Ernest Klein. Carta Jerusalem; the university of Haifa.
Oxford: The Oxford Companion to the Bible. Edited by Bruce M. Metzger, Michael D. Coogan. Oxford University Press
Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology. The H.W. Wilson company.
The proper names of the Old Testament Scriptures. By Rev Alfred Jones. Samuel Bagster and sons, London.
It can also mean "Make sure and launder off the red clay on Friday, so you have clean underwear for the Sabbath"
Or anyone of a hundred other made up meanings by stringing together words from a passage you want to be more significant than it probably is.
And here I thought it meant 'Put your money on the strong young man wearing red shorts in the javelin contest and don't shout so loud I'm not deaf just resting'
(thanks Witch I quite enjoyed reading your post)
LB
It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read.
Thomas Jefferson
If I had to dispense oral history I would give it out in the forms of poems, metaphors, rhmes songs and riddles. Learning a geneology has to be dull and uninstructive for any purpose but by lending it some kind of meaning tells us who we are. It doesn't matter so much to be utterly accurate or to begin to accuse others' feelings about the story. Getting defensive about the story and imagining the story to be the only story is the work of oral history at fault with it's very technique.
The Irish never let the truth get in the way of a really great story. This is what I grew up knowing. The value is the story and the truth is the story though the story may not be the truth. Heidegger says this also, I think. RD Laing breathes it in every line of his work.
Comments
GordW
I will be overly generous and
Posted on: 07/30/2010 17:29
I will be overly generous and call that a questionable use of the genealogy.
Witch
That's quite the reach lol
Posted on: 07/30/2010 18:25
That's quite the reach lol
blackbelt
GordW wrote: I will be overly
Posted on: 07/31/2010 09:43
I will be overly generous and call that a questionable use of the genealogy.
explain please
GordW
blackbelt wrote: GordW
Posted on: 07/31/2010 10:56
I will be overly generous and call that a questionable use of the genealogy.
explain please
Well my less generous response was poppycock.
It is an obvious case of forcing a passage to say something it was not intended to.
blackbelt
GordW wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 07/31/2010 22:18
I will be overly generous and call that a questionable use of the genealogy.
explain please
Well my less generous response was poppycock.
It is an obvious case of forcing a passage to say something it was not intended to.
i understand the passage is saying another, but what about the meaning of the names? and how they form a sentence? do you think the names translated are translated in error? or just a coincidence
Witch
The Hebrew language being
Posted on: 08/01/2010 01:48
The Hebrew language being what it is, each of those names when taken as a word has several meanings and perhaps dozens of nuances dpending on factors such a tone and textual placement.
"Adam", for instance, can mean "Man" as the video suggests. It can also mean the Earth, or red clay.
Enosh can mean "mortal" but it can also mean "sick" or "poor health"
Not sure how he figures Cainan can mean "sorrow" but it does mean variously "increase in possession" or "aquisition of wealth" or possibly "offspring"
Mahalalel... well the video suggest that means "the blessed God" which is a rather big stretch, which I suppose the author had to make a few of so it would fit. It actually means variously "the praise for (or of) God" or "the madness of God". The root "halel" can mean loud praise, as in halellujah, or uncontrollable shouting. How he decided it meant The blessed God" is certainly a good question.
Jared can mean "descent", or it can mean "to pour out" as in the river Jordan.
Now the video suggest Enoch means "teaching". Right idea but wrong tense. Enoch actually refers to a past tense, and can mean "taught" or "dedicated" or "initiated". Hard to make the premise work if you use the correct tense though.
Methuselah can mean "His death shal bring, althought according to Jones and Bagster it would be better rendered as "When he (ie the soldier as per mat 1263) is dead it shall be sent" or alternatively "man with a javelin"
As far as Lamech goes, the word lmk doesn't actually occur in Hebrew, so translaters have had to do some guessworks as to the meaning, which gives us a very broad opinion of what it might mean based on similar roots. It could mean "a lowering" or "humiliation", which I guess is somewhat close to the video's "the despairing" but not really close enought to fit the pattern they want to purport. It can also mean "a strong young man"
The name Noah can mean "rest", but not as in the comfort kind of rest but more in lin e with "settling down in one place and establishing a home" kind of rest, which makes sense considering the story. Noah can also mean a type of rest with overtonmes of finality, like "victory" or 'salvation"
So if one cherry picks all the meanings you wnat for the names, and gets them lined up just right, and ignores tenses and more obvious meanings, it's possible they can mean what the video suggests.
It can also mean "Make sure and launder off the red clay on Friday, so you have clean underwear for the Sabbath"
Or anyone of a hundred other made up meanings by stringing together words from a passage you want to be more significant than it probably is.
Sources:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. Moody Press Chicago.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament
A Comprehensible etymological dictionary of the Hebrew language for readers of english. By Ernest Klein. Carta Jerusalem; the university of Haifa.
Oxford: The Oxford Companion to the Bible. Edited by Bruce M. Metzger, Michael D. Coogan. Oxford University Press
Barnhart Concise Dictionary of Etymology. The H.W. Wilson company.
The proper names of the Old Testament Scriptures. By Rev Alfred Jones. Samuel Bagster and sons, London.
LBmuskoka
Witch wrote: It can also mean
Posted on: 08/01/2010 06:56
It can also mean "Make sure and launder off the red clay on Friday, so you have clean underwear for the Sabbath"
Or anyone of a hundred other made up meanings by stringing together words from a passage you want to be more significant than it probably is.
And here I thought it meant 'Put your money on the strong young man wearing red shorts in the javelin contest and don't shout so loud I'm not deaf just resting'
(thanks Witch I quite enjoyed reading your post)
LB
It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read.
Thomas Jefferson
Witch
Thanks LB, although I confess
Posted on: 08/02/2010 02:47
Thanks LB, although I confess I like your alternate better than mine.
Rev. Steven Davis
Witch wrote: It can also mean
Posted on: 08/02/2010 08:19
It can also mean "Make sure and launder off the red clay on Friday, so you have clean underwear for the Sabbath"
You know - I always do try to have clean underwear for the Sabbath.
revjohn
Hi Rev. Steven Davis, Rev.
Posted on: 08/02/2010 22:01
Hi Rev. Steven Davis,
You know - I always do try to have clean underwear for the Sabbath.
Which never used to be a problem until the busses started running on the Sabbath as well.
Grace and peace to you.
John
jlin
If I had to dispense oral
Posted on: 08/03/2010 03:16
If I had to dispense oral history I would give it out in the forms of poems, metaphors, rhmes songs and riddles. Learning a geneology has to be dull and uninstructive for any purpose but by lending it some kind of meaning tells us who we are. It doesn't matter so much to be utterly accurate or to begin to accuse others' feelings about the story. Getting defensive about the story and imagining the story to be the only story is the work of oral history at fault with it's very technique.
The Irish never let the truth get in the way of a really great story. This is what I grew up knowing. The value is the story and the truth is the story though the story may not be the truth. Heidegger says this also, I think. RD Laing breathes it in every line of his work.