unsafe
Health God's Way -- Interesting Video For Those Who Believe
Posted on: 01/28/2012 13:04
Bibles says God wants us healthy and whole --- not physically broken.--I personally believe What God's word says ---
Principled Chiropractic Health Healing God's Way
Drs. Jeremy & Amanda Hess
"Health & Healing God's Way" Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v24zwtT-Ey4
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kaythecurler
I expect when you use the
Posted on: 01/28/2012 16:46
I expect when you use the word 'believe' you mean 'believe in Jesus'. Am I right?
I believe in trying to live a healthy life and accept that neither I or any one else will do this perfectly. I believe that healing can come from a variety of practitioners. I believe that chiropractors can aid health in some ways. I believe I'll go to ER if I think I might have appendicitis or pneumonia.
I didn't click on the side link for Part 2 as I found Part 1 very poorly narrated, slow moving and uninteresting (as in I already know what chiropractors do and why it may help certain conditions).
unsafe
Hi kaythecurler--- Thanks
Posted on: 01/28/2012 17:04
Hi kaythecurler--- Thanks for commenting your belief is your belief ---
I believe Isaiah 53 v 5 as it is written ---we are already healed .
Peace and Blessings
kaythecurler
Fair enough. I won't tell
Posted on: 01/28/2012 17:08
Fair enough. I won't tell you what to believe.
I believe you will live longer if you avail yourself of good medical interventions when they seem to be needed.
unsafe
Hi kaythecurler Your
Posted on: 01/28/2012 17:56
Hi kaythecurler Your Quote -- I won't tell you what to believe.
I appreciate that --and I will take your advice if I ever need it. I haven't needed any medical attention for a quite a while now and I thank Jesus for Shedding His Precious Blood by the scourging He took on His back to set us free from sickness and disease .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRqXOaWUdVM
Praise and Thanks to Jesus for my Health.
MC jae
I didn't watch it. I'm not a
Posted on: 01/28/2012 23:26
I didn't watch it. I'm not a believer in the health 'n' wealth gospel.
Wesoly
I think if we all lived to be
Posted on: 01/29/2012 01:33
I think if we all lived to be 112, we would be dealing with many more problems than we have now. Ex: overcrowding, not enough healthcare and pallative care for the elderly, not enough physical resources etc
And the fact is that we all die... we will all detiorate at some point. So do miracle healings just keep us going until we were destined to die?
I confused myself
unsafe
Hi
Posted on: 01/29/2012 09:48
Hi MorningCalm
Thanks for your comment and that is just fine by me --your belief is your belief ---
But just because you yourself don't believe that Jesus Shed His Blood for you to be well and whole doesn't change God's word .
So your saying I know what God's word says but I don't believe it --which to my mind says you are calling God a liar.
http://biblos.com/isaiah/53-5.htm
Isaiah 53:5 >>
Original Word: רָפָא
Transliteration: rapha
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-faw')
Short Definition: heal
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
to heal
NASB Word Usage
become fresh (3), completely healed (1), heal (24), healed (22), healer (1), healing (2), heals (3), physician (1), physicians (4), purified (2), reappeared (1), repaired (2), take care (1).
http://concordances.org/hebrew/7495.htm
I give thanks to Jesus who died so I could be Whole .
This is your promise of living in abundance ---again it seems you are calling God a liar? Again your choice to believe what you want --But it doesn't change God's word .
The overflow is to help others in need it is not for us personally --It is called ---The Blessing ---and the Blessing is not to be used for ourselves --it is to feed the hungry ---give heat to those who have none --etc.
John 10:10
Amplified Bible (AMP)
10The thief comes only in order to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have and enjoy life, and have it in abundance (to the full, till it [a]overflows).
Peace
chansen
unsafe, refuting your
Posted on: 01/29/2012 10:35
unsafe, refuting your ridiculous claims is getting old. At least it takes so little effort.
If there was anything to the idea that "sufficient" or "correct" faith in Jesus could keep you in good health, you'd have something more impressive than scripture - you would have the most easily collected and most powerful statistics in the world. If what you claim was true, we'd see thousands or millions of aged believers in extremely improbably good health. We'd see these Christians being the oldest citizens in the world.
None of this, of course, is true. I'm glad you're in good health, but Christians continue to die of all the same basic maladies and injuries that befall believers of other faiths and non-believers alike, and at the same rate.
You are clueless on this subject, and more than that, you're dangerous. Belief that faith will cure, causes people to forego proper treatment. At worst, it kills children. It's not just a stupid belief. It's the stupidest belief.
unsafe
chansen Rule 1 of
Posted on: 01/29/2012 10:41
chansen
Rule 1 of the rules of conduct -
-attack the subject not the person --you continually break this rule ---it states ---When debating express your opinion about a person's idea not about them personally ---If you think that the scripture is dangerous that is OK by me . I personally believe what God's word says and that is no more dangerous than you disbelieving in a God .
If youn attack me anymore personally you will be flagged .
Peace and Blessings
revjohn
Hi unsafe, unsafe
Posted on: 01/29/2012 10:50
Hi unsafe,
But just because you yourself don't believe that Jesus Shed His Blood for you to be well and whole doesn't change God's word .
Which is a very poor reading of what MorningCalm actually believes. He said he rejects the health and wealth gospel. One can believe in the shed blood of Jesus without believing that Jesus died so that we would have physical and financial prosperity.
So your saying I know what God's word says but I don't believe it --which to my mind says you are calling God a liar.
So much for his belief being his belief. Here, perhaps unwittingly, you imply that MorningCalm's belief is that God is a liar.
That is you telling MorningCalm what he believes which is pretty much like the health and wealth Gospel interpreting the scriptures to support their twisted ideas.
According to scriptures Jesus came that we might have life in abundance. One could interpret that literally to mean excellent health and a ton of money. That is a superficial read which denies the reality of scripture.
Paul pleads three times for the thorn in his flesh to be taken away from him God responds saying that God's grace is sufficient for Paul. Either Paul is mistaken about what God said or the health and wealth gospel is deficient in its interpretation of scripture.
The health and wealth gospel also looks down on Proverbs 17: 1 suggesting that real peace cannot come from a dry crust since that is poverty.
While wholeness is a very important concept within the bounds of scripture. Wholeness isn't all that it is cracked up to be unless Jesus is mistaken in Matthew 5: 29 and 30.
For the record I also reject the health and wealth or prosperity gospel.
Grace and peace to you.
John
airclean33
Hi Rev John --Sorry but the
Posted on: 01/29/2012 12:50
Hi Rev John --Sorry but the post above looks to be one of the worse I'v seen you post. I believe if you think God let Paul suffer in the flesh becuase, He could not heal Him. You and I really do read different Bibles.I or unsafe or you knows whats in morningcalms mind. Only He does . That you would answer for Him in this is wrong.That you Believe some things in the Bible have a meaning to you. Is Find, as it has been told me . What I believe is what I believe.You really believe Mathew: -5---29-30---Has something to do with healing your Fleash? God Bless John--airclean33
chansen
unsafe
Posted on: 01/29/2012 12:55
chansen
Rule 1 of the rules of conduct -
-attack the subject not the person --you continually break this rule ---it states ---When debating express your opinion about a person's idea not about them personally ---If you think that the scripture is dangerous that is OK by me . I personally believe what God's word says and that is no more dangerous than you disbelieving in a God .
If youn attack me anymore personally you will be flagged .
Peace and Blessings
Flag away. You're demonstrably the most dangerous member of Wondercafe. I've said that repeatedly. The ideas and beliefs you espouse deserve to be mocked into oblivion, because they are just that hazardous and awful. That they are false is secondary.
seeler
Thank God most Christians
Posted on: 01/29/2012 13:50
Thank God most Christians don't believe the prosperity gospel.
Actually, what I study in scripture shows me Jesus rejecting the possibility of living a fairly comfortable life (by the standards of the time) to identify with the poor and the rejects of society.
Most Christians reject unsafe's interpretation of scripture. Abundant life does not mean either health or wealth.
unsafe
Hi revjohn ---Thank for
Posted on: 01/29/2012 13:58
Hi revjohn ---Thank for commenting and again we disagree ---
Your belief is your belief --it doesn't change what the scripture says ---
Proverbs 4:20-22
New King James Version (NKJV)
20 My son, give attention to my words;
Incline your ear to my sayings.
21 Do not let them depart from your eyes;
Keep them in the midst of your heart;
22 For they are life to those who find them,
And health to all their flesh.
---Money is only a small part of what abundance is in God's word ---
God gives us a choice to choose Blessings or cursings --life or death --our choice .
Abundance is having more than enough of everything to be able to give the overflow away to help others -----
revjohn ---The Overflow Is Not For Ourselves --The Blessing is given to us to Help The Poor ----If you only have enough for yourself you cannot help others ------
If someone needs oil in their tank to keep them warm and all you have is enough money to fill your own oil tank --- you cannot offer to fill the tank of the person who needs it cause you can't pay for it ---
-God provides the overflow to help you put oil in the tank of the person who needs it .---to buy cloths for the person who needs the cloths ---to buy food for the person who need the food .
So revjohn you disagree with God in number 11 of the Blessings ---so if you disagree or don't believe what God's word says here --would that not be then you think it is false ---or deciving which is the meaning of this word lie.
lie 2 (l
)
Deuteronomy 28:1-14
New International Version (NIV)
Deuteronomy 28
Blessings for Obedience
1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth.
2 All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:
3 You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country.
4 The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock—the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
5 Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed.
6 You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out.
7 The LORD will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven.
8 The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you.
9 The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in obedience to him.
10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you.
11 The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity—in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground—in the land he swore to your ancestors to give you.
12 The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none.
13 The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom.
14 Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.
Nothing here about sickness and disease--------- but there is in the curse ---
Curses for Disobedience
15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you:
16 You will be cursed in the city and cursed in the country.
17 Your basket and your kneading trough will be cursed.
18 The fruit of your womb will be cursed, and the crops of your land, and the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks.
19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go out.
20 The LORD will send on you curses, confusion and rebuke in everything you put your hand to, until you are destroyed and come to sudden ruin because of the evil you have done in forsaking him.[a]
21The LORD will plague you with diseases until he has destroyed you from the land you are entering to possess.
22 The LORD will strike you with wasting disease, with fever and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, with blight and mildew, which will plague you until you perish. 23 The sky over your head will be bronze, the ground beneath you iron. 24 The LORD will turn the rain of your country into dust and powder; it will come down from the skies until you are destroyed.
25 The LORD will cause you to be defeated before your enemies. You will come at them from one direction but flee from them in seven, and you will become a thing of horror to all the kingdoms on earth. 26 Your carcasses will be food for all the birds and the wild animals, and there will be no one to frighten them away. 27 The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind. 29 At midday you will grope about like a blind person in the dark. You will be unsuccessful in everything you do; day after day you will be oppressed and robbed, with no one to rescue you.
30 You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. 31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. 32 Your sons and daughters will be given to another nation, and you will wear out your eyes watching for them day after day, powerless to lift a hand. 33 A people that you do not know will eat what your land and labor produce, and you will have nothing but cruel oppression all your days. 34 The sights you see will drive you mad. 35 The LORD will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head.
36 The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your ancestors. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone. 37 You will become a thing of horror, a byword and an object of ridicule among all the peoples where the LORD will drive you.
38 You will sow much seed in the field but you will harvest little, because locusts will devour it. 39You will plant vineyards and cultivate them but you will not drink the wine or gather the grapes, because worms will eat them. 40 You will have olive trees throughout your country but you will not use the oil, because the olives will drop off. 41 You will have sons and daughters but you will not keep them, because they will go into captivity. 42 Swarms of locusts will take over all your trees and the crops of your land.
43 The foreigners who reside among you will rise above you higher and higher, but you will sink lower and lower. 44 They will lend to you, but you will not lend to them. They will be the head, but you will be the tail.
45 All these curses will come on you. They will pursue you and overtake you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and observe the commands and decrees he gave you. 46They will be a sign and a wonder to you and your descendants forever. 47 Because you did not serve the LORD your God joyfully and gladly in the time of prosperity, 48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and dire poverty, you will serve the enemies the LORD sends against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck until he has destroyed you.
49 The LORD will bring a nation against you from far away, from the ends of the earth, like an eagle swooping down, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a fierce-looking nation without respect for the old or pity for the young. 51 They will devour the young of your livestock and the crops of your land until you are destroyed. They will leave you no grain, new wine or olive oil, nor any calves of your herds or lambs of your flocks until you are ruined. 52 They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the LORD your God is giving you.
53 Because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege, you will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you. 54 Even the most gentle and sensitive man among you will have no compassion on his own brother or the wife he loves or his surviving children, 55 and he will not give to one of them any of the flesh of his children that he is eating. It will be all he has left because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of all your cities. 56 The most gentle and sensitive woman among you—so sensitive and gentle that she would not venture to touch the ground with the sole of her foot—will begrudge the husband she loves and her own son or daughter 57 the afterbirth from her womb and the children she bears. For in her dire need she intends to eat them secretly because of the suffering your enemy will inflict on you during the siege of your cities.
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the LORD your God— 59 the LORD will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60He will bring on you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The LORD will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the LORD your God. 63 Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.
64 Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other. There you will worship other gods—gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your ancestors have known. 65 Among those nations you will find no repose, no resting place for the sole of your foot. There the LORD will give you an anxious mind, eyes weary with longing, and a despairing heart. 66You will live in constant suspense, filled with dread both night and day, never sure of your life. 67 In the morning you will say, “If only it were evening!” and in the evening, “If only it were morning!”—because of the terror that will fill your hearts and the sights that your eyes will see. 68 The LORD will send you back in ships to Egypt on a journey I said you should never make again. There you will offer yourselves for sale to your enemies as male and female slaves, but no one will buy you.
Peace and Grace to you revjohn
revjohn
Hi
Posted on: 01/29/2012 14:07
Hi Airclean33,
Hi Rev John --Sorry but the post above looks to be one of the worse I'v seen you post.
Don't apologize for what you believe.
I believe if you think
Ahh so you aren't apologizing for what you think you have decided to judge what you think I think. That's different.
God let Paul suffer in the flesh becuase, He could not heal Him.
Which is not at all what I said. Nor is it anywhere near the testimony Paul gives.
Paul reports pleading with God on three occasions to remove his thorn in the flesh. Nobody knows what that thorn in the flesh was. Many have ideas of what it is. There simply is no certainty and anybody who tells you they know and is neither God nor Paul is in error.
Pau reports that his response to the request to have the thorn taken away is met with a flat out "no" from God. That is not God being unable, that is God being unwilling. Why? It isn't recorded anywhere so again, anybody other than God claiming to know why God was unwilling is likely to be in error.
The answer that Paul gets which, according to Paul's testimony is an acceptable answer is that God's grace will be sufficient for him and God's power is made manifest in our wearkness." The question for every Christian since has been, "is it really?"
Is God's grace really sufficient? Can we believe in God's grace when God says no? Can we believe in God's grace in the absence of miracles? Can we believe in God's grace when we suffer or are uncomfortable? Well, can we?
Paul, apparently could even if the health and wealth Gospels can't or won't.
You and I really do read different Bibles.
Not likely. It is most likely that you and I read the same Bible differently.
I or unsafe or you knows whats in morningcalms mind. Only He does.
If MorningCalm was not in the habit of posting none of us could have read his posts and discerned his thoughts. I might be wrong in my understanding of MorningCalm's perspective. So could unsafe. So could you. When MorningCalm responds we will find out whether I understand him or not.
If I understand him not at all then your warning is well founded. If I understand him then your rebuke is wide of the mark.
You really believe Mathew: -5---29-30---Has something to do with healing your Fleash?
No. I don't.
What I believe Matthew 5: 29-30 tell us is that wholeness of flesh doesn't matter if that wholeness is going to a firey end. Being whole of flesh doesn't matter if spirit is corrupted. Apparently, it is possible to be righteous and bear scars upon one's flesh. Jesus comes immediately to mind of one such case and if the Biblical testimony is to be believed even the resurrected Christ bears wounds which can be touched. Meaning, the wounds never healed or, they healed imperfectly. The Apostles could still put their fingers in the wounds of his hands and they could still place their hands in the wound of his side.
Grace and peace to you.
John
revjohn
Hi unsafe, unsafe
Posted on: 01/29/2012 14:41
Hi unsafe,
Your belief is your belief --it doesn't change what the scripture says
No it doesn't.
Our belief does, unfortunately have the ability to change what scripture means. We can read into scripture, as the prosperity Gospel does and keep the words of the text in tact while doing violence to the meaning.
So revjohn you disagree with God in number 11 of the Blessings ---so if you disagree or don't believe what God's word says here --would that not be then you think it is false ---or deciving which is the meaning of this word lie.
Again apparently I am free to believe what I believe and the moment what I believe differs from what you believe I am a liar.
Define abundant prosperity unsafe. What exactly do you interpret it to mean in the context of Deuteronomy 28: 11
By the reasoning you employ here I, as liar, should be experiencing everything listed under the curses. I regret to inform you that I'm not suffering from any of that. So, either I'm not suffering because I am not guilty of the lies you lay at my feet or, I'm not suffering yet because God is waiting for me to lie some more or, you are wrong in your interpretation of the text.
Whatever thorns you hope for me I trust that God's grace is sufficient enough for me that I will endure them.
Grace and peace to you.
John
airclean33
Hi RevJohn-----This is what I
Posted on: 01/29/2012 14:43
Hi RevJohn-----This is what I wrote --------. I believe if you think God let Paul suffer in the flesh becuase, He could not heal Him. (You and I really do read different Bibles----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'v seen you post befor John , You like to break a sentence ,This is what I wrote in one sentence. I have know idea what you were thinking as you wrote , that is why I put IF there. As I know on wonder cafe each has a right to think what they will. To me this looks a littel different . If you took it to mean I was judgeing you .I'v missed something. God Bless
chansen
seeler wrote: Thank God
Posted on: 01/29/2012 14:51
Thank God most Christians don't believe the prosperity gospel.
Actually, what I study in scripture shows me Jesus rejecting the possibility of living a fairly comfortable life (by the standards of the time) to identify with the poor and the rejects of society.
Most Christians reject unsafe's interpretation of scripture. Abundant life does not mean either health or wealth.
But many do. Millions and millions of Christians do believe in the prosperity gospel. Partly, I suspect, because that message very much appears to be part of the bible.
You can focus on it being bad theology, if that's what you believe. At the very least, you can get into a debate as to which theology is more correct.
Personally, I think the best way to debunk it, is to point out that Christians are no more healthy or wealthy than anyone else.
For example, if Christianity did keep you healthier, think about what would be true. First, Christians would cost health insurance companies less. Insurance companies would be fighting over Christians, or perhaps just members of specific churches. They aren't, of course.
Also, if Christians were more healthy, for no other reason than they are Christians who believe in a specific way, that would be evidence for God. Christians would be all over it. These Christians would be sought-after for studies and surveys, and celebrated.
So, just off the top of my head, if Christians are healthier, but the above things aren't happening, then you have to argue that insurance companies are not interested in making money, and Christians are not interested in demonstrating that their God exists. Neither, of course, are true.
What unsafe espouses here is similar to the beliefs of practitioners of Christian Science, whose beliefs have produced some very interesting statistics, not because they are demonstrably more healthy than other people, but because their children keep dying of treatable illnesses:
http://www.katu.com/news/34932419.html
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/06/us/in-child-deaths-a-test-for-christian-science.html?pagewanted=all
So, no, I'm not going to treat this topic with kid gloves. unsafe's beliefs on this topic are dangerous and stupid. I don't much care if adults who believe God will keep them in good health take that belief to an early grave. But when it's their kids, who have never had a chance to make that call on their own, die due to medical neglect beause his or her parents were too busy praying over them, we shouldn't "respect" that idiotic belief. We need to call it out for what it is when we see it.
revjohn
Hi
Posted on: 01/29/2012 14:54
Hi airclean33,
You like to break a sentence ,This is what I wrote in one sentence.
I am well aware it was one sentence. My critique and response does not change because I broke it apart.
To be clear I take issue with you believing you know what I think particularly when I have not posted what you believe you read. You jumped to conclusions and decided to attack me for what you imagined I posted and not for what I actually posted.
Your imagination of what I post is clearest in the second part of the sentence I broke up and I have explained further what I think in response and how it differs from what you imagined I meant.
I have know idea what you were thinking as you wrote , that is why I put IF there.
It is fair for you not to know what I was thinking. It is unfair for you to imagine what I was thinking and attack that figment. Since you did not know you could have asked for clarification. You chose to take a more confrontational approach.
I don't know precisely why you would do that. I have suspicions.
If you took it to mean I was judgeing you .I'v missed something.
If you didn't intend to come across as judging I guess you did.
Grace and peace to you.
John
unsafe
Hi revjohn Thanks
Posted on: 01/29/2012 14:56
Hi revjohn
Thanks for your reply --your quote Whatever thorns you hope for me I trust that God's grace is sufficient enough for me that I will endure them.
You shall endure them with flying colors I'm sure --
Grace and Peace to you revjohn
MC jae
The Bible, I believe,
Posted on: 01/29/2012 15:13
The Bible, I believe, promises prosperity for the followers of Christ. The main problem I have with those who ascribe to the health 'n' wealth gospel is their interpretation of just what kind of prosperity that might be.
It is my belief that the vast majority of the times (if not all the times) that prosperity is promised, it is spiritual abundance that is on tap, not necessarily financial or health.
Those who trust in the Lord will be given spiritual riches. They will be made spiritually whole. An overabundance of spiritual health will be theirs to share with others.
In my mind, cheapening these promises by suggesting that they are only about money and physical health is just not right. I do believe that God can and does give these latter gifts as he so chooses. However, only God knows what gift is right for each person to be in service to him.
I totally resist the notion that the most faithful will receive the most money and health from God.
Finally, just let me say that I do believe a time is coming when we will be perfectly healthy in every way -- that time is when we are together with Christ either through death or upon his return.
kaythecurler
chanson - your links aren't
Posted on: 01/29/2012 15:19
chanson - your links aren't really relevant (said with tongue stuffed in cheek!!).
The links are about Christian Scientists neglecting there kids health problems and allowing them to die. 
Unsafe was talking about chiropractic manipulations - something else entirely - and something else that won't heal meningitis, cancer, diabetes etc etc.
unsafe
Hi MorningCalm Thanks
Posted on: 01/29/2012 15:31
Hi MorningCalm Thanks for your reply
Your belief has valid points and I appreciate your clarification ---
Peace
airclean33
MorningCalm wrote: The
Posted on: 01/29/2012 16:06
The Bible, I believe, promises prosperity for the followers of Christ. The main problem I have with those who ascribe to the health 'n' wealth gospel is their interpretation of just what kind of prosperity that might be.
It is my belief that the vast majority of the times (if not all the times) that prosperity is promised, it is spiritual abundance that is on tap, not necessarily financial or health.
Those who trust in the Lord will be given spiritual riches. They will be made spiritually whole. An overabundance of spiritual health will be theirs to share with others.
In my mind, cheapening these promises by suggesting that they are only about money and physical health is just not right. I do believe that God can and does give these latter gifts as he so chooses. However, only God knows what gift is right for each person to be in service to him.
I totally resist the notion that the most faithful will receive the most money and health from God.
Finally, just let me say that I do believe a time is coming when we will be perfectly healthy in every way -- that time is when we are together with Christ either through death or upon his return.
unsafe
Hi Wesoly Thanks
Posted on: 01/29/2012 16:06
Hi Wesoly
Thanks for your comments --I here what you are saying ---if we all lived to the same age there would be overcrowding ---But if that were the case and we were here for God's purpose I believe He would provide the room for such a crowd .
Sickness comes to us I believe because of our disobedience to God's will for our lives as seen in the curses in Deut 28 --I posted above .
I personally believe God's word not just some of it but all of it ---as it is written .
Confusion comes not from God but from Satan as is indicated in this scripture which says --From God comes a sound mind ---
2 Timothy 1:7
King James Version (KJV)
7For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Peace
MC jae
airclean33 wrote: Hi
Posted on: 01/29/2012 16:20
Hi Morningcalm--This is very close to what i Believe
I do think of Job. and what God done for Him. I think of Abrahaham and what God did for Him, I think of Jocob and what God done for Him.I think of Joseph , the who house he was sold to was rich. But doubled in a year becuase of God. an on and on. To me though wealth may not be good for you. I thank God For just what, He Has given me. God Bless airclean33
Yes AC, those are wonderful stories to keep in mind. I recall God`s rich blessings to Solomon also. However, let`s not forget that according to the Bible Paul`s life was hardly easy -- including his having a mysterious `thorn in the flesh`` which may or may not have been some sort of physical disability. Let`s also keep in mind the financial poverty of many of the saints and even of the Lord Jesus himself.
I know a few Christians with handicaps -- a woman in my church who is blind, a friend at school who is deaf, myself who has epilepsy. I don`t consider such physical challenges to be signs of God`s displeasure on us. I believe rather that he has given such things to us that we may use them for his glory, perhaps in keeping us humble and more interested in reaching out to others who are like us.
unsafe
Hi MorningCalm
Posted on: 01/29/2012 16:33
Hi MorningCalm ---
What makes you think Jesus was poor ---Does it say that in scripture --cause I must have missed that .
Peace
Kimmio
Hi unsafe, Old
Posted on: 01/29/2012 21:46
Hi unsafe,
Old testament text you posted above reads to me like apocalyptic writing style of their time depicting the troubles of thier time, and I do not take this literally...it reads to me like a depiction of something that was aready happening, or something the writers wished upon their enemies..and certainly reads like it was written in the spirit of fear (to reference the verse from Timothy you posted). Jesus came along and told us to love our neighbours, and our enemies, remember?
rhbilly
the dietary laws were about
Posted on: 01/30/2012 00:04
the dietary laws were about the health of the people no doubt - God does care about our physical health - and I'm reminded of this verse ...
3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
rhbilly
Some things the scriptures
Posted on: 01/30/2012 00:32
Some things the scriptures say about health ...
Proverbs 3:1-2
Guidance for the Young
3 My son, do not forget my law,
But let your heart keep my commands;
2 For length of days and long life
And peace they will add to you.
*** logically speaking this makes sense - no running with the wrong croud
Proverbs 3:7-8
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil.
8 It will be health to your flesh,[a]
And strength[b] to your bones.
*** many pitfalls can lead to bad health without a doubt - drugs etc ...
Exodus 15:26
26 and said, “If you diligently heed the voice of the Lord your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”
*** seems like a clear covenent promise showing health is a gift from God ...
Ecclesiastes 12:13
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
*** clear direction as to what the purpose of man is ...
Interesting that health relates to relation with God ... what beter relation than to be found in Christ Jesus ...
blackbelt
i dont believe in the health
Posted on: 01/30/2012 01:02
i dont believe in the health gosple, it makes it sound like we are sick because we dont believe enough or good enough, and that is not the case, frankly everyone on the face of the planet who has died from natural causes has so by way of sickness, saints and un-saints alike .
seeler
rhbilly wrote: the dietary
Posted on: 01/30/2012 01:13
the dietary laws were about the health of the people no doubt - God does care about our physical health - and I'm reminded of this verse ...
3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
This is one verse in scripture that I take literally. I really believe that the writer of this short letter prayed that the recipients would prosper and that their health would be good. When I wrote letters for family and friends I wrote the same or similar good wishes. I still do when I send a long email to my son. Why wouldn't we wish good things for our friends?
Check the posts here in social or relationships - it seems to me that people even wish these things for virtual friends. May you live long and prosper. May things go well for you. Take care of yourself. I hope for better things for you in the future.
rhbilly
seeler wrote: rhbilly
Posted on: 01/30/2012 06:50
the dietary laws were about the health of the people no doubt - God does care about our physical health - and I'm reminded of this verse ...
3 John 1:2
Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health, just as your soul prospers.
This is one verse in scripture that I take literally. I really believe that the writer of this short letter prayed that the recipients would prosper and that their health would be good. When I wrote letters for family and friends I wrote the same or similar good wishes. I still do when I send a long email to my son. Why wouldn't we wish good things for our friends?
Check the posts here in social or relationships - it seems to me that people even wish these things for virtual friends. May you live long and prosper. May things go well for you. Take care of yourself. I hope for better things for you in the future.
the soul prospered, still prayer for the rest indicates that it was lacking somehow and is not a given I would think ...
rhbilly
blackbelt wrote: i dont
Posted on: 01/30/2012 07:03
i dont believe in the health gosple, it makes it sound like we are sick because we dont believe enough or good enough, and that is not the case, frankly everyone on the face of the planet who has died from natural causes has so by way of sickness, saints and un-saints alike .
agree'd, the health wealth and prosperity gospel has lead to much disallusionment - even anger twards God and the church ... could even be understood as another gospel ... not an impossibility given the following scriptures ...
2 Corinthians 11:4
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!
2 Corinthians 4:3
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 4:13
You know that because of physical infirmity I preached the gospel to you at the first.
Ephesians 6:19
and for me, that utterance may be given to me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the gospel,
sighsnootles
so, unsafe... are you
Posted on: 01/30/2012 20:51
so, unsafe... are you suggesting that jesus was financially wealthy...
and are you suggesting that people who suffer illness are not praying hard enough, or do not love god enough...
just want to clarify.
unsafe
Hi rhbilly ---Thanks for
Posted on: 01/30/2012 22:38
Hi rhbilly ---Thanks for your input ---We all have a right to believe what we want
Your Quote agree'd, the health wealth and prosperity gospel has lead to much disallusionment - even anger twards God and the church ... could even be understood as another gospel ... not an impossibility given the following scriptures ..
I personally don't think it is another gospel ---Could it be that Satan has duped us in believing that the gospel is false and his way --the way of this world is the right way --that --sickness and disease ---poverty ---and a broken life is the right way ---We need to be very careful to be able to discern what is of God and what is of Satan ---The Bible was inspired by God according to scripture ---so all scripture quoted is from God --the scripture says that The Holy Spirit will be our teacher to our understanding of what the scriptures means to us personally. So we need to be Born Again to have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us .
Satan's job is to kill-steal and destroy us --according to scripture ----God wants us -the opposite --alive -to give back and replenish us ---
This world gives us ---stress --strife --decease ---our soul and spirit are in constant turmoil which causes all kinds of stress on our bodies and organs --sickness and diseases of all kinds can invade our system --we are unhealthy --
God's world gives us --peace --joy --patience --our soul and siprit are at ease no stress when we rely on Him to deal with our problems --wellness and health replaces the sickness ----Jesus took scourging in His back for your wellness --Jesus payed your sickness debt and you have the nerve to say that it could be of Satan ---
-If you really believe that the god of this world Satan wants you well and God our Father in Heaven wants you sick --then that is what you believe but it is not my belief .
Isaiah 53 :5 --Read the whole commentary at link below
We are healed -literally, it is healed to us; or healing has happened to us. The healing here referred to, is spiritual healing, or healing from sin. Pardon of sin, and restoration to the favor of God, are not unfrequently represented as an act of healing. The figure is derived from the fact that awakened and convicted sinners are often represented as crushed, broken, bruised by the weight of their transgressions, and the removal of the load of sin is repesented as an act of healing. ' I said, O Lord, bemercifulunto me; heal my soul, for I have sinned againt thee' Psalms 41:4. Have mercy upon me, O Lord, for I am weak; O Lord, heal me, for my bones are vexed'
Psalms 6:2. ' Who forgiveth all thine, iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases
Psalms 103:3. The idea here is, that the Messiah would be scourged; and that it would be by that scourging that health would be imparted to our souls.
Read more:http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/18717/eVerseID/18717/RTD/Barnes#ixzz1l6SJyVzI
Prosperity is the same-- Satan wants us broke --busted and disgusted --Can't help others who need --food --cloths --oil in their tanks for the winter ---Houses or apartments to live in ---provide education for those who can't afford it -- when we're broke ---can't help to take care of the sick when your sick youself --God wants us to have an overflow so we can provide for the poor --
-Do you really think Satan wants to give you the resources to help the poor and God wants you broke and poor to only have enough for yourself . That not what God's word says but if that is your belief than that is what you believe --I don't .
Prosperity is ------Prosperity is THIS --prospering in our Health --Relationships --Marriages --Parenting --Jobs which provides us with a pay check --we get promotions on our jobs which brings more pay our way --so we can have the resources to help others ---Planting crops anything we apply our hands to
Any over and above that God gives us is NOT for us --it is to be use to help the people in need . Period --if you keep any thing that you get extra --your acting out of greed --it is not for you.
Peace and Blessings
unsafe
Hi sighsnootles ---your
Posted on: 01/30/2012 22:44
Hi sighsnootles ---your belief is your own belief ---whatever that may be.It is right for you and you alone .
Blessings
seeler
[.
Posted on: 01/31/2012 07:48
[.
BetteTheRed
The problem with the whole
Posted on: 01/31/2012 08:12
The problem with the whole health gospel is that it doesn't explain the children who are born with congenital illnesses.
My son's mother-in-law-type is one of these believers, and she proclaims it far and wide. The effect is rather spoiled by the missing teeth, Jay-sus obviously believing that dental health is not related to physical health.
unsafe
Hi BetteTheRed --Your
Posted on: 01/31/2012 10:34
Hi BetteTheRed --Your quote The problem with the whole health gospel is that it doesn't explain the children who are born with congenital illnesses.
Exodus 20 V 5 ---Which many just won't except but it is scripture and I believe God is speaking here as the word I is being used ---I did a Thread on this scripture and it is a very delicate subject and personal and upsetting to many so we will end it there.
Blessings and Peace
chansen
unsafe wrote: Hi
Posted on: 01/31/2012 11:00
Hi BetteTheRed --Your quote The problem with the whole health gospel is that it doesn't explain the children who are born with congenital illnesses.
Exodus 20 V 5 ---Which many just won't except but it is scripture and I believe God is speaking here as the word I is being used ---I did a Thread on this scripture and it is a very delicate subject and personal and upsetting to many so we will end it there.
It's upsetting to people who have had children with health problems to be told that the reason is they didn't pray enough, and it's upsetting to you because you can't show that even the exact preferred way of praying and believing makes a damn bit of difference.
In short, you upset people who have suffered real heartache and unimaginable loss, with ideas that have no basis in reality.
sighsnootles
unsafe wrote: Hi
Posted on: 01/31/2012 11:26
Hi sighsnootles ---your belief is your own belief ---whatever that may be.It is right for you and you alone .
Blessings
that was not my question...
do YOU believe that jesus was financially wealthy, and do YOU believe that illness is a result of falling out of gods failure...
unsafe
Hi sighsnottles
Posted on: 01/31/2012 11:34
Hi sighsnottles unsafe wrote:
Hi sighsnootles ---your belief is your own belief ---whatever that may be.It is right for you and you alone .
Blessings
And that is my answer
Peace
sighsnootles
okay then... geez, who
Posted on: 01/31/2012 11:39
okay then...
geez, who was it who accused ME of not answering questions that people asked me... next time i get THAT allegation, i will connect them to this response here....
unsafe
Hi Sighsnottles May
Posted on: 01/31/2012 11:46
Hi Sighsnottles
May your Peace and Blessings be Great and may you have a wonderful week .
sighsnootles
thanks!! and may the
Posted on: 01/31/2012 11:54
thanks!!
and may the force be with you... always.
Mahakala
Unsafe, I honestly don't
Posted on: 01/31/2012 12:08
Unsafe, I honestly don't understand how you could read the Bible can come to this conclusion, unless you just read the single verses out of context. The majority of the heroes in the Bible faced sickness, poverty, calamity, torture, ridicule, death daily. It's a mess. And that's because human life is a mess. And that's why God is here, walking among us.
unsafe
Hi Mahakala Your Quote
Posted on: 01/31/2012 12:30
Hi Mahakala Your Quote And that's because human life is a mess
You are soooo right there ---If you read Genesis 1 V 26 ---Who does it say has control of this earth ----to you ----
Genesis 1:26
Amplified Bible (AMP)
sighsnootles
so, how do you interpret
Posted on: 01/31/2012 12:47
so, how do you interpret that
whatever you do for to these, the least of my sisters and brothers, that you do unto me.
passage then, unsafe...
kaythecurler
unsafe - I wish you had the
Posted on: 01/31/2012 12:48
unsafe - I wish you had the ability and willingness to answer the questions that have been voiced. Until you do I will keep finding myself with a niggling feeling that you are just plain ignorant. The cure for this is in your hands.