Sebb's picture

Sebb

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How do we all know that our religion is right?

Pretty much every religiouse person in the world cannot have their mind changed. In their heads, they are right. In my head I am right. In your head, you are probably right too. How are we all right? How do we know with no evidence to support us? why do we "know" that what an old book or story or scroll etc. sais is right? Because you pray and your prayer is answered does that make your god real? What about people who pray to other gods and, again, have their prayer answerd? Is it because of how we were brought up? Are we all right? Are we all wrong?

Can some body tell me their answers to these questions (or at least as many as they can answer)?

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Warped_Purity's picture

Warped_Purity

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We don't know what's right or

We don't know what's right or wrong.  In fact I highly doubt anyone is dead accurate.  The best we can do (in my opinion) is learn from everyone and guesstimate.  I always believed if we do what we feel is right, then we should be fine :P.  When I was young I kept getting told "if you don't awknowledge Jesus as the son of god you'll go to hell" and that's what made me decide I wasn't going to follow any one religion, but I still get a lot of good life lessons from reading from the bible, I just also happen to get good lessons from reading up stuff from Buddha and Mohammed and so on.

 

Basically there is no answer to who is right and who is wrong, we just plain don't know.  For all we know it's right to kill donkies by ripping their tails out and suffocating them with the severed hairs.  We just have things we aren't very fond of like murder and theft.  But the fact is we just don't know.

Sebb's picture

Sebb

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That's pretty much how I feel

That's pretty much how I feel too Warped_Purity. But there are people who know they are right (well they think they know). My question is more for them, i want to know how they know or can think they know that they are 100% right and every1 else is 100% wrong (i should have said that in the OP ~_^) but i like your answer :D

jon71's picture

jon71

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Faith. That might sound like

Faith. That might sound like a cop out but there it is. It's something inside.

Sebb's picture

Sebb

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But Jon, does your faith tell

But Jon, does your faith tell you that you are right? I ask because others have faith aswell but their faith (the faith that makes them right and you wrong) conttradicts your faith (the faith that makes you right and them wrong).

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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Sebb wrote: Pretty much every

Sebb wrote:

Pretty much every religiouse person in the world cannot have their mind changed. In their heads, they are right. In my head I am right. In your head, you are probably right too. How are we all right?

 

we could all be right because there is simply no possible way that we could fathom what god is capable of. 

 

spiritbear's picture

spiritbear

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Sebb - It seems like you're

Sebb - It seems like you're asking two quite different questions here: Who is right and What is right. As to the first, no one is right 100% of the time (which still includes the possibility that they are right some of the time). As for what is right, I suppose your decision on that determines what kind of person you are. If you are a loving/kind person, then decisions about what is right flow from what is kind and loving, which I believe is the same starting point that Jesus used (and also includes any of the many religions that incorporates the "Golden Rule").  On the other hand if you are a selfish/hateful person, then your decisions about what is right will be different. Society does not thrive and many suffer when there are too many of the second type, so we all have a vested interest in encouraging the first type over the second type, not matter what religion is involved. If you are worried about what religious practice to follow (does one eat pork, does one pray a prescribed times in prescribed ways, do you go to confession, do you burn incense, etc), that's partly a matter of your own choice and partly how comfortable you feel in the culture in which you were raised. Frankly, I don't think God cares about those kind of specifics. It's what in your heart that counts. And once you have decided on the basics (kindness/love vs selfishness/hate), the rest pretty well follows from there.

 

Concerning your point about prayer "proving" whether one's god is the "right" one, I don't believe the purpose of prayer is to ask God for "stuff". It is an opportunity to listen to God, seek guidance and search for meaning. A prayer "coming true" is usually just a coincidence and shouldn't be used as proof of anything. To paraphrase Jesus, just because it rains on an evil man's crops (even if he is praying for it) does not mean that God approves of his ways.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Hi Sebb:   I'm not "right."

Hi Sebb:

 

I'm not "right." I'm into experiential spirituality, and the interpretations or explanations of my spiritual experiences are, at all times, speculative and/or metaphorical.

 

You seem to regard "faith" as doctrinal only. But there is an experiential side to faith that is beyond doctrine. Spiritual experience is also the root of all religious doctrines. Differences in mythology, teachings, and doctrines are due to culturally and individually unique interpretations of spiritual experience.

 

Spiritual experience seems to be the common ground on which all religions could meet.

 

If we regarded our religious expressions as artistic, then different expressions would not only be welcomed but become necessary artistic differences, and we could joyously share our respectice creations with each other.

rishi's picture

rishi

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To quote your avitar: 

To quote your avitar:  "Religion is true when it brings an end to suffering."

 

BrettA's picture

BrettA

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rishi wrote: To quote your

rishi wrote:

To quote your avitar:  "Religion is true when it brings an end to suffering."

Anything is true when it brings an end to suffering. Sadly, that makes nothing universally true, methinks.

Witch's picture

Witch

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My faith is right... for me.

My faith is right... for me. Your results may differ.

 

Seriously though, I have difficulty believeing that God is so incompetent that He/She can only manage to convince a minority of people of what the "right" way to worship is.

 

The best explanation I can come up with is that God simply doesn't much care what name we choose to call Him/Her by, what name we give the practice of our faith, or what rituals we choose as a vehicle for our faith. An Omnipotent God should be able to easily wear whatever face we require at any time, in order for us to relate to a God to big for human comprehension.

 

I suspect it saddens God greatly when His/Her children squabble and kill each other over which face is the only "true" one.

spiritbear's picture

spiritbear

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Witch: I suspect that God is

Witch: I suspect that God is also saddened when God's children kill each other over the one "true" economic system or who their "true" leader should be. In fact such things are just masks for the real reasons for humanity's conflicts:  power, wealth or land.  When faith promotes "right" relationships (i.e., respectful, peaceful, non-exploitative), as many faiths do, that to me would be another test of the "rightness" of one's faith.

rishi's picture

rishi

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BrettA wrote: rishi wrote: To

BrettA wrote:

rishi wrote:

To quote your avitar:  "Religion is true when it brings an end to suffering."

Anything is true when it brings an end to suffering. Sadly, that makes nothing universally true, methinks.

... except for the original statement.

edizer's picture

edizer

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Instead of answering your

Instead of answering your question, let me just share some thoughts.

 

You may have known of the saying: "Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder." And so in the same manner, what is right or what is wrong depends on where you are, and what your concepts or beliefs are.

 

In your particular case, whatever is in accordance with your Buddhist beliefs must be right, otherwise it is not right.

 

Even among those professing Christianity, there are different interpretations of what is right and what is wrong, although, as Christianity is based on the Holy Bible, then the same Bible must be the sole basis to determine what is right and what is not right.

 

It is generally accepted that the word RELIGION comes from RE + LIGARE - meaning to bind, to tie, as in ligament.  On a wider concept, it includes a series of beliefs and corresponding practices about worship of a supernatural being usually called GOD, and the piety in complying with all the required services.

 

If, on one hand, you may want to try to study and compare most, if not all, of the religions now, you may still have to make a pre-determined set of standards or qualifications to come up to your desired results.

 

If you are, however, interested in Christianity, then I may be able to share with you some of the doctrines that I know of from the Holy Bible.

 

 

 

 

 

Kappa's picture

Kappa

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Whose suffering are we

Whose suffering are we talking about when we talk about its end here? And what sort of suffering? Some people would rather be happy and think they are right than live in a constant state of uncertainty and questioning in search of objective truth. In the first case, the ones who believes they are right and are happy do not appear to be suffering. Are they somehow still suffering? On what level, and who decides?

Witch's picture

Witch

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edizer wrote: If, on one

edizer wrote:

If, on one hand, you may want to try to study and compare most, if not all, of the religions now, you may still have to make a pre-determined set of standards or qualifications to come up to your desired results.

 

If you are, however, interested in Christianity, then I may be able to share with you some of the doctrines that I know of from the Holy Bible.

 

I'm afraid I'm not sure I understand completely. For my own clarification, are you suggesting that Christianity is not a religion?

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Kappa wrote: Whose suffering

Kappa wrote:

Whose suffering are we talking about when we talk about its end here? And what sort of suffering? Some people would rather be happy and think they are right than live in a constant state of uncertainty and questioning in search of objective truth. In the first case, the ones who believes they are right and are happy do not appear to be suffering. Are they somehow still suffering? On what level, and who decides?

 

Well, Kappa, I think the sufferer decides whether or not s/he is suffering, and whether s/he wants to go beyond it. And the sufferer also determines when s/he is beyond it.

 

But I believe suffering is also "with-suffering," a.k.a. compassion, and no human is totally beyond suffering as long as others suffer. That's why enlightened people who have gone beyond suffering feel compelled to do their utmost to help others beyond suffering.

Modern Girl's picture

Modern Girl

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I interpret the main question

I interpret the main question here as "why do some people assert they are right moreso than others? How can they justify it?" (I hope that's the question). My answer to this would be that some people have a greater need to believe than others. Some people have a greater fear of death, and therefore have a greater need for a belief in an afterlife, or another life, or what have you. These people are able to stand behind their beliefs despite obstacles that are hurdle at them, because they have a greater connection with those beliefs.

 

Now, the other question that is somewhat related (and was my first impression) is how can we know who is right? No religion out there says it's wrong, just like no politican says they are the bad choice. Everyone wants you to believe in them. In politics, we trust in the politican who matches our values. In religion, a lot of people do the same. But if you want to get an objective truth, I don't believe that is possible. That's why I'm agnostic and a Unitarian Universalist.

 

Unitarian Universalists embrace diversity of beliefs and accept that everyone might believe something different. They aren't worried about who has it right, or who is going to win the game. They are more concerned with sportsmanship, how we play, err, how we live our lives. Witch, you sound like you would agree with a lot of Unitarian Universalist thoughts.

Mendalla's picture

Mendalla

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Modern Girl wrote: Unitarian

Modern Girl wrote:

Unitarian Universalists embrace diversity of beliefs and accept that everyone might believe something different. They aren't worried about who has it right, or who is going to win the game. They are more concerned with sportsmanship, how we play, err, how we live our lives. Witch, you sound like you would agree with a lot of Unitarian Universalist thoughts.

 

Damn right. That was my answer put much better than I was going to put it, Modern Girl.

 

I'm also a UU and probably an agnostic as well (I'm wrestling with labels right now).

 

Josephine's picture

Josephine

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I'm reading The Battle For

I'm reading The Battle For God right now.  The writer says that whenever a nation or tribe gors through cultural changes rapidly, they collectively get scared, and hang onto religious constucts with a death grip.  They are anxious and need the assurance that we're all on the same page!  At the same time, there are people with progressive vision, who, inevittably, come into conflict with the frightened ones.  I've tried a new ploy since reading this book.  When a frightened one needs me to join them in their beliefs, I just reflectively reply to them.  "Things are changing so fast, I know!  You must be so scared."  "It is scary......I think I'd go crazy, if I didn't just get into God's plan for my life and enjoy it as much as I can!"  Using their jargon gives them relief....they de-escalate.  They start feeling safe around you.  They will violate your feelings and boundaries.....but that's because they're excalated emotionally with fear.  There have been a few bi-polar people I've run into too, who can be exasperating.  Anyway, de-escalating the fear of the frightened ones has been successful move on my part.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Mendalla wrote: Modern Girl

Mendalla wrote:

Modern Girl wrote:

Unitarian Universalists embrace diversity of beliefs and accept that everyone might believe something different. They aren't worried about who has it right, or who is going to win the game. They are more concerned with sportsmanship, how we play, err, how we live our lives. Witch, you sound like you would agree with a lot of Unitarian Universalist thoughts.

 

Damn right. That was my answer put much better than I was going to put it, Modern Girl.

 

I'm also a UU and probably an agnostic as well (I'm wrestling with labels right now).

 

 

Hi Mendalla: you forgot the space bween the "a" and the "g." Aren't you a Gnostic rather than agnostic?

Kappa's picture

Kappa

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That was a thoughtful answer

That was a thoughtful answer Arminius. I appreciate your wisdom, as usual.

Aresthena's picture

Aresthena

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 There is no right and no

 There is no right and no wrong religion. There is ridiculous and sense-full. Does every religion make sense? Some do, and some do not.

Religion, however, can be very enslaving. In some you have absolutely no personal choice. A religion only makes sense when it does not enslave you and gives you the option to discover the answers to all your questions.

 

There is no right Religion because we do not really know what is true, do we? Most of us are as ignorant as the people who believed that the Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it.

There is no wrong religion because of the same reasons.

 

Anyone can believe whatever he or she wants, as long as it hurts none.

Sebb's picture

Sebb

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Thanks for your posts

Thanks for your posts everyone ^_^ the reason I asked is when i'm not reading P&P&Z right now i'm also reading some stuff by Friedrich Nietzsche and it got me thinking (I'm at The Religiouse Nature in Beyond Good and Evil) so thanks again ^_^

spice's picture

spice

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some times suffering gives us

some times suffering gives us more faith

Aresthena's picture

Aresthena

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Spice, I wouldn't say that

Spice, I wouldn't say that suffering gives us more faith, per say, but maybe it gives us more hope. Faith can sometimes be easy to kill. Hope, however, always remains silently buried deep inside the heart, even when it is perceived gone.

spice's picture

spice

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right hope love and

right hope love and forgivness is faith! and if it wasnt deep in our souls it would be

Sebb's picture

Sebb

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Aresthena wrote: Faith can

Aresthena wrote:

Faith can sometimes be easy to kill. Hope, however, always remains silently buried deep inside the heart, even when it is perceived gone.

 

I like that :D I may end up quoting you sometime if ya wouldn't mind ^_^

spice's picture

spice

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faith just

faith just is...................... and if it isnt you dont have it

Happy Genius's picture

Happy Genius

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rishi wrote: To quote your

rishi wrote:

To quote your avitar:  "Religion is true when it brings an end to suffering."

 

Yes! (I'm  about  2,900,000) short of saying this, but

om mani padme hum

Sebb's picture

Sebb

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Happy Genius, that's my fave

Happy Genius, that's my fave mantra >_< ("om mani padme hum") I have it writen in Tibetan on my school binder :3

chansen's picture

chansen

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  Aresthena wrote:There is no

 

Aresthena wrote:
There is no right and no wrong religion. There is ridiculous and sense-full. Does every religion make sense? Some do, and some do not.

What religion "makes sense"?  By what criteria does one religion make more sense than another?

 

Aresthena wrote:
Religion, however, can be very enslaving. In some you have absolutely no personal choice. A religion only makes sense when it does not enslave you and gives you the option to discover the answers to all your questions.

Ahhh...OK.  So you're redefining "makes sense".  Which religions "enslave", and which do not? 

 

Aresthena wrote:
Anyone can believe whatever he or she wants, as long as it hurts none.

I'm perfectly in line with you there.

spice's picture

spice

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peace in your heart and

peace in your heart and contentment in life will bring you to the higher power that just is........................everything,(god)

chansen's picture

chansen

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spice wrote: peace in your

spice wrote:

peace in your heart and contentment in life will bring you to the higher power that just is........................everything,(god)

 

I thought it was the other way 'round?  Doesn't God lead to peace and contentment?  It's so confusing.  Does belief in an imaginary friend lead to happiness, or does happiness lead to belief in an imaginary friend?

spice's picture

spice

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thats it friend ying yang its

thats it friend ying yang its both or nothing and all

rishi's picture

rishi

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Sebb wrote: Thanks for your

Sebb wrote:

Thanks for your posts everyone ^_^ the reason I asked is when i'm not reading P&P&Z right now i'm also reading some stuff by Friedrich Nietzsche and it got me thinking (I'm at The Religiouse Nature in Beyond Good and Evil) so thanks again ^_^

 

That's probably one of the best answers to the question: right religion comes from a place that is beyond good and evil.

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Sebb, wrote:   Pretty much

Sebb, wrote:

 

Pretty much every religiouse person in the world cannot have their mind changed.

 

 

It's not just religious people.

 

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090702_opinion.htm

 

Reality, by itself, isn't a monobloc of existence, in that it isn't static & unchanging and observable over its entire area of existence. To deal with this, we have evolved to be able to break that uncertainty down into meaningful bits, using such things as language and our neurology (our brains are really, to a large extent, filters to weed out the chaos into an understandable form).

 

So we, day by day, live in a reality that is chaotic, hard-to-pin-down, multi-valued, but we experience it as static, single-valued, and understandable. And we think that our world, that created by our neurology and the many tools that derive from that (which includes language), is the Real World. Unchangable. Discrete. Static. We confuse the map with the territory.

 

Even the word 'is' serves to give Certainty. A tree 'is' a Tree. A chair 'is' a Chair. And so forth.

 

It has been shown, in many ways, that people have trouble dealing with chaos. It is...uncomfortable. So, in a great way, Certainty is desired.

 

Because of how we have evolved, everyone (and I mean everyone) is susceptible to propaganda. No matter how smart you are, you can be convinced of something. We all operate by observable and reliable rules that can and are being utilized by schmart people, for both good and ill (and neutral effects).

 

I think this isn't a modern thing, but a rather ancient thing -- ferinstance, al-Hasan ibn-al-Sabbah would use Hashish to inculcate new 'recruits' into his tribe of Devoted killers while showing them the future reward of The Garden of Earthly Delights (it is from Hashish that the word Assassin derives...)

 

There have been many, many attempts to show people the role they play in the construction of their reality.

 

Today is a great time to be alive, because right now is the best time to be able to teach people aboot something like this, instead of hiding it (which still happens) or giving it to a minor elite (which still happens).

 

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

bygraceiam's picture

bygraceiam

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Hello everyone God bless

Hello everyone God bless You...

 

I just finished with my answer of this on my asking discernment help...this is what I have learned...

 

Although I am a firm believer in the Father, the Son Christ, the Holy Spirit & the angels who carry His will this is what I have learned when it comes to this question...

 

The Truth can only be Truth to each man/woman according to their inner understanding , because we have found a certain Truth or a Certain Path that is right , we should never endeavor to force our sister/brothers to walk this way..The wise man/woman , the Seekers after Truth say to others upon the Journey this is what I have Seen, this is what I have Heard, this is what I have Experienced..but not all Souls who are taking life's experiences have the same thought for some need to learn the ways of Simplicity, some learn by Sacrifice, for some the way of Creation & Beauty, for others the pathway lies in the giving of themselves to others in Sacrifice & Healing Service, of some the way of Silence, I believe there are individual ways of the Soul, some will find understanding in Christian Churches, some by the wise ways of Chinese & Buddha Teachings, some through listening to teachers who teach in small quiet rooms of Spiritualism..

For each Soul & Seeker there is a way which is right to them..I believe we who do have some degree of understanding should share with others what we have learned, I do believe this wisdom & understanding comes from within all persons seeking & searching for God...

 

Love the Lord God with all Your Heart , with all Your Soul, with all Your Strength, with all Your Mind and Love Others as You want to be Loved...

If we do this in our lives then we carry the Divine Love and Will Of God in our lives in many different ways and paths...

 

IJL: BJ

GRR's picture

GRR

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BrettA wrote: rishi wrote: To

BrettA wrote:

rishi wrote:

To quote your avitar:  "Religion is true when it brings an end to suffering."

Anything is true when it brings an end to suffering. Sadly, that makes nothing universally true, methinks.

I don't see anything sad about that. I think that its a realization that's necessary to continued growth in wisdom, spirtiual, secular or in any other sphere. Layers and shadings and nuances - what some call the tapestry of existence.

GRR's picture

GRR

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Kappa wrote: Whose suffering

Kappa wrote:

Whose suffering are we talking about when we talk about its end here? And what sort of suffering? Some people would rather be happy and think they are right than live in a constant state of uncertainty and questioning in search of objective truth. In the first case, the ones who believes they are right and are happy do not appear to be suffering. Are they somehow still suffering? On what level, and who decides?

Which is why, for the people you describe - those needing certainty - a black and white religion ends suffering, and is, therefore, "right religion" for them. For those who would feel imprisoned by such an approach to belief, it is anything but.

spice's picture

spice

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i think any thing that brings

i think any thing that brings you higher in your spirtual awarness is the rt religon

Alex's picture

Alex

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You know you are in the right

You know you are in the right religion, when it makes you so angry that you curse it on a regular basis.  If you are not angry with it then shows you do not really care about it, and if you are in the right religion you should care very much about it IMHO.  Either that or that you have reach a level of  couciousness where you belong to everyone.

 

spice's picture

spice

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exactly and wat ever it takes

exactly and wat ever it takes to get there is the rt one

chansen's picture

chansen

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Alex wrote:You know you are

Alex wrote:
You know you are in the right religion, when it makes you so angry that you curse it on a regular basis.

That makes me wonder when you know you've married the right person.  After they've taken out a restraining order?

ruth001's picture

ruth001

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I know that my religion is

I know that my religion is right for me. I would never presume to decide for you.

spice's picture

spice

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ruth001 wrote: I know that my

ruth001 wrote:

I know that my religion is right for me. I would never presume to decide for you.

same her wat works for you might not work for some one else

Happy Genius's picture

Happy Genius

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Sebb wrote: Pretty much every

Sebb wrote:

Pretty much every religiouse person in the world cannot have their mind changed. In their heads, they are right. In my head I am right. In your head, you are probably right too. How are we all right?

We are all right! It's a planet-wide search: For enlightenment, for unity, for the Buddah-nature, for an undrstanding of God, and Her will....

In Lagos the preacher sermonizes from the Koran and the Bible...the congragation is mixed Muslem/Christian.

It's a begining, a spark...

Sebb wrote:

  Are we all wrong?

I think it very unlikely.

Some people like chocolate, some strawberry, I like a LOT of flavors...:-)

Cheers!

 

Happy Genius's picture

Happy Genius

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Sebb wrote: Happy Genius,

Sebb wrote:

Happy Genius, that's my fave mantra >_< ("om mani padme hum") I have it writen in Tibetan on my school binder :3

At midlanding of my stairs (which I climb at least ten times a day) I have placed a small statue of you..(.if you look exactly like the  photo ..) And say it going up and down while touching it...I confess this is not so much a recognition that there are spiritual ruminations to be made...a more secular thought...of respect for those who dip more deeply than I into the implications....I recently read that every sylable contains a part and the sentence the whole.teaching of Buddah.

 

Happy Genius's picture

Happy Genius

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Warped-purity. I love it when

Warped-purity. I love it when before my eyes the English language is enhanced by a much-needed phrase. The entire English-speaking world is in your debt.

Warped-purity. Perfect. (5 seconds of Deep Think) Come to think about it, it's a phrase St. Paul would have used when speaking of himself.. But St. Paul is soooooo yesterday. :(-:0

 

Warped_Purity's picture

Warped_Purity

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Happy Genius

Happy Genius wrote:

Warped-purity. I love it when before my eyes the English language is enhanced by a much-needed phrase. The entire English-speaking world is in your debt.

Warped-purity. Perfect. (5 seconds of Deep Think) Come to think about it, it's a phrase St. Paul would have used when speaking of himself.. But St. Paul is soooooo yesterday. :(-:0

 

 

I don't quite get what you're saying :P  elaborate?

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