Greatest I am
Jesus as God is problematic.
Posted on: 02/24/2010 12:53
Jesus as God is problematic.
If you believe in the trinity, you would have to explain how in the beginning, Jesus was alive before his mother was even born.
You would also have to contend with the virgin birth.
That concept was around much earlier than Christianity in other religions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr767bZQWFw&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5EKaY1B8g&feature=related
To believe in it would mean that you would have to breed God, one species, with man, a different species. In modern terms we call this bestiality. Not a good epithet to hang on a God.
It is also problematic to have God use another mans woman. That sound too much like coveting another man’s wife. It also shows a God that needs a human, his own mother in fact, to reproduce himself as Jesus/God.
If Jesus was in the beginning as part of the trinity then we would end up with two Jesus’.
It sounds strange to me that God would also have to use a woman to reproduce himself. That would make his mate his own mother. In modern terms, that is incest.
To think that God would break the rules of bestiality, and incest and create a paradox of living before his mother, would I think, be wrong.
Further, to think that God would have such problems getting man on track that he would have to tweak his perfect creations also shows a God that somehow failed to start us up the right way and we know that this is impossible for God because it would mean that he is incompetent.
We should all believe that God gets things right the first time and every time.
As to the vicarious redemption of Jesus, this was arguably rejected by God as immoral.
Why have you forsaken me, is answered by, it is immoral.
http://www.thenazareneway.com/vicarious_atonement.htm Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
The last reason I have a problem with Jesus as God is that scripture has him resurrecting and his body living forever in heaven.
This cannot be as he never ate of the tree of life. He then could not be immortal. At least not his human part.
To believe that Jesus is God one also has to buy into the notion that miracles of all kinds are real.
No proof of any miracle exists and I think that if God wanted man to believe in such a thing, he would have left a sample here for us to ponder.
Do you have faith in Jesus?
If so,
Do your thing. There are about 50,000 children that starve to death yearly. Time for you to show what faith can do.
Do you have faith in Jesus?
Are miracles real?
Regards
DL
- Login or register to post comments
- Add new comment
Search
Comments
Greatest I am
Greatest I am
Posted on: 02/24/2010 12:57
Sorry folks,
The quote
Belongs after the words-If so.
Somehow in went in wrong.
Regards
DL
Matthew 17:20
airclean33
G-I-A I see your still
Posted on: 02/24/2010 13:09
G-I-A I see your still blowing smoke. I will Give you a word from the THE WORD.MATTEW-3-9---and do not presume to say to yourselves,We have Abraham as are father, for I tell you,GOD is able from these stones to raise up children to Abraham.
Witch
Of course present day
Posted on: 02/24/2010 14:12
Of course present day Christian polytheism in the form of the Trinity wasn't always the case. The Hebrew religion was strictly monotheistic. The concept of the Messiah in the Hebrew and Jewish religion is patently different than in the Christian religion, inasmuch as the original Messiah is not in any way supposed to be God, but rather a very human hero. That's one of the main reasons why The Jews still wait for the coming of the Messiah, The Christian idea doesn't qualify according to Hebrew/Jewish scriptures on this count, and on many others.
Early Christianity was also split on the idea as well. The Trinitarians and Monarchianists fought back and forth for many years until the Trinitarians gained political favour with Constantine, who declared Trinitarianism to tbe correct, and allowed the Trinitarians to murder the Monarchianist leaders. After Monarchianism became dangerous, both politically and physically, and with the new political power wielded by the Trinitarians, Monarchianism faded into obscurity. Most Christians today just assume, incorrectly, that all Christians believed in the polytheistic version of Christainity from day one.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: . That's one of
Posted on: 02/24/2010 14:24
. That's one of the main reasons why The Jews still wait for the coming of the Messiah, The Christian idea doesn't qualify according to Hebrew/Jewish scriptures on this count, and on many others.
There are many Jews today that have accepted that Jesus is the Messiah, they call them selves , Messianic Jews
Witch
blackbelt wrote: Witch
Posted on: 02/24/2010 14:32
. That's one of the main reasons why The Jews still wait for the coming of the Messiah, The Christian idea doesn't qualify according to Hebrew/Jewish scriptures on this count, and on many others.
There are many Jews today that have accepted that Jesus is the Messiah, they call them selves , Messianic Jews
And their religion is Christianity, not Judaism. They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews.
It still does not alter the fact that Judaism is strictly monotheistic, and the Jewish religion does not contain the concept of a God Messiah, and does not recognise your Jesus as the Messiah.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 14:46
. That's one of the main reasons why The Jews still wait for the coming of the Messiah, The Christian idea doesn't qualify according to Hebrew/Jewish scriptures on this count, and on many others.
There are many Jews today that have accepted that Jesus is the Messiah, they call them selves , Messianic Jews
And their religion is Christianity, not Judaism. They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews.
Christanity is Just a name that means followers of Christ , Massianic Jews are also followers of Jesus Christ
yes there are more gentiles Than Jews, i have a notion as the world comes to an end as we knwo it, Massianic Jews will increas in numbers.
airclean33
Blackbelt-- I Also belive we
Posted on: 02/24/2010 15:09
Blackbelt-- I Also belive we are in that .
blackbelt
airclean33 wrote: Blackbelt--
Posted on: 02/24/2010 15:13
Blackbelt-- I Also belive we are in that .
I belive it also , according to some scolars, the Jewish people are begining to return home
chansen
blackbelt wrote: airclean33
Posted on: 02/24/2010 15:31
Blackbelt-- I Also belive we are in that .
I belive it also , according to some scolars, the Jewish people are begining to return home
Forest Hill?
footprints165
I remember reading somewhere
Posted on: 02/24/2010 15:41
I remember reading somewhere that the story of Jesus is a copy of a more ancient story told in some ancient pagan faith... i wish i could find the article again, because it cracked me up. The whole bible seems to be full of plagarisms and exagerations that defy historical evidence and universal laws of physics. Tsk tsk. all in the name of mass propaganda for convincing simple peasants to serve an organisation that time and time again behaved like a self-righteous bully that abused its purpose and power. History is written by the winners.
MorningCalm
chansen wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 18:36
Blackbelt-- I Also belive we are in that .
I belive it also , according to some scolars, the Jewish people are begining to return home
Forest Hill?
Witch
blackbelt wrote: Witch
Posted on: 02/24/2010 18:43
. That's one of the main reasons why The Jews still wait for the coming of the Messiah, The Christian idea doesn't qualify according to Hebrew/Jewish scriptures on this count, and on many others.
There are many Jews today that have accepted that Jesus is the Messiah, they call them selves , Messianic Jews
And their religion is Christianity, not Judaism. They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews.
Christanity is Just a name that means followers of Christ , Massianic Jews are also followers of Jesus Christ
Yes they are followers of Christ, which is why they are not followers of Judaism. Judaism has no "Christ" concept, and has no Trinity. Judaism has only one God, no extra "persons", and the Jewiush Messiah is not God.
Yeessss, but what has that got to do with anything I said?
I'm sure you have lots of notions. I'm not sure what you thing the growth of numbers of Christians among ethnic Jews has to do with the religion of Judaism....
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 18:55
. That's one of the main reasons why The Jews still wait for the coming of the Messiah, The Christian idea doesn't qualify according to Hebrew/Jewish scriptures on this count, and on many others.
There are many Jews today that have accepted that Jesus is the Messiah, they call them selves , Messianic Jews
And their religion is Christianity, not Judaism. They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews.
Christanity is Just a name that means followers of Christ , Massianic Jews are also followers of Jesus Christ
Yes they are followers of Christ, which is why they are not followers of Judaism. Judaism has no "Christ" concept, and has no Trinity. Judaism has only one God, no extra "persons", and the Jewiush Messiah is not God.
Massianic Jews, beleive as christians do that Jesus is the fortold one, the fullfillment of theOT scriptures and that Jesus is God , , there are a few Messianic Jews that attend my church
Witch
That's right, they are
Posted on: 02/24/2010 18:57
That's right, they are Christians. They are not Jews, as far as religion goes.
The problem is that the word "Jew" has two meanings. There is Jewish by religion, and Jewish by ethnicity. The people you are talking about may be Jewish by ethnicity (perhaps Isreali would be a better term), but they do not follow the Jewish religion. Rather they follow the Christian religion.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: That's right,
Posted on: 02/24/2010 18:58
That's right, they are Christians. They are not jews, as far as religion goes.
no the are Jews, Christians are gentiles graphed in to the chosen people (spirtually speaking) .
My spirtuial heratage is judeo Christian, the father of our faith is a jew, Abrham
blackbelt
Witch wrote: That's right,
Posted on: 02/24/2010 19:01
That's right, they are Christians. They are not Jews, as far as religion goes.
The problem is that the word "Jew" has two meanings. There is Jewish by religion, and Jewish by ethnicity. The people you are talking about may be Jewish by ethnicity (perhaps Isreali would be a better term), but they do not follow the Jewish religion. Rather they follow the Christian religion.
Witch
blackbelt wrote: Witch
Posted on: 02/24/2010 19:38
That's right, they are Christians. They are not jews, as far as religion goes.
no the are Jews, Christians are gentiles graphed in to the chosen people (spirtually speaking) .
My spirtuial heratage is judeo Christian, the father of our faith is a jew, Abrham
Christianity is a religion with no ethnicity. Judaism is a religion closely tied to ethnicity, but not exclusively so.
One can be born Jewish by ethnicity and be Jewish by religion as well. If one adopts Christ as one's God, one ceases to be Jewish by religion, because the Jewish religion does not recognize Christ as the Messiah or as God, and does not have the concept of Trinity, which is essential to modern Christianity (at least as you would see it).
Whether one remains a Jew by ethnicity or not remains a question, because the ethnicity portion is not well defined. I prefer Isreali by birth.
However, to be Jewish by religion is very well defined. The Jewish religion has a messiah who has not yet come, and who will not be God when he does, and it has a strict monotheism which precludes the concept of Trinity. The Jewish religion also looks to the Torah, and sees that Jesus would be disqualified as Messiah on many points, not the least of which that His lineage precludes it.
The two religions are specifically contradictory to each other on specific points of required doctrine, i.e. the nature of God and the qualifications and manifestations of the Messiah. Thus when you adopt the Christian Jesus, you reject the Jewish God and the Jewish Messiah.
This is why so-called "Messianic Jews" are not followers of the Jewish religion. They are followers of the Christian religion.
stoneeyeball
GIA/DL as an intelligent
Posted on: 02/24/2010 19:39
GIA/DL as an intelligent debater is problematic.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 20:04
That's right, they are Christians. They are not jews, as far as religion goes.
no the are Jews, Christians are gentiles graphed in to the chosen people (spirtually speaking) .
My spirtuial heratage is judeo Christian, the father of our faith is a jew, Abrham
Christianity is a religion with no ethnicity. Judaism is a religion closely tied to ethnicity, but not exclusively so.
One can be born Jewish by ethnicity and be Jewish by religion as well. If one adopts Christ as one's God, one ceases to be Jewish by religion, because the Jewish religion does not recognize Christ as the Messiah or as God, and does not have the concept of Trinity, which is essential to modern Christianity (at least as you would see it).
Whether one remains a Jew by ethnicity or not remains a question, because the ethnicity portion is not well defined. I prefer Isreali by birth.
However, to be Jewish by religion is very well defined. The Jewish religion has a messiah who has not yet come, and who will not be God when he does, and it has a strict monotheism which precludes the concept of Trinity. The Jewish religion also looks to the Torah, and sees that Jesus would be disqualified as Messiah on many points, not the least of which that His lineage precludes it.
The two religions are specifically contradictory to each other on specific points of required doctrine, i.e. the nature of God and the qualifications and manifestations of the Messiah. Thus when you adopt the Christian Jesus, you reject the Jewish God and the Jewish Messiah.
This is why so-called "Messianic Jews" are not followers of the Jewish religion. They are followers of the Christian religion.
Witch
blackbelt wrote:the problem
Posted on: 02/24/2010 20:34
Pleasze do try to read my posts before you argue with them, won't you? I have stated that it is a spiritual one. Spiritually speaking The Jewish religion and the Christian religion are diametrically opposed on all major points of doctrine. Therefore the only way a Christian can also be Jewish is if you factor in the ethnicity.
If the ethnicity is set aside, and one only considers the spiritual aspect, Christians and Jews do not share much in the way of religion, other than a cursory similarity in the contents of what you call the OT.
Interesting that you use New Testamant scripture that Jews do not recognize, to try to prove you use the same scriptures.
Your spirituality is a fundamental schizm from Judaism. It is fundamentally differnt in form, function, and doctrine.
Islam also counts Abraham as father, both spiritually AND ethnically, and their beliefs are much closer to Judaism than is Christianity. Why don't we hear of Muslim Christians? The reason we don't is nbecause Christianity and Islam are two different in doctrine and beliefs to entertain such a combination. The same exists for Judaism and Christianity. AS far as you both using the OT goes, your interpretation of the Jews scriptures are a lot different than theirs is, which further ceded to the inability of a person to be both Jewish and Christian by religion.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 20:43
Pleasze do try to read my posts before you argue with them, won't you? I have stated that it is a spiritual one. Spiritually speaking The Jewish religion and the Christian religion are diametrically opposed on all major points of doctrine. Therefore the only way a Christian can also be Jewish is if you factor in the ethnicity.
If the ethnicity is set aside, and one only considers the spiritual aspect, Christians and Jews do not share much in the way of religion, other than a cursory similarity in the contents of what you call the OT.
Interesting that you use New Testamant scripture that Jews do not recognize, to try to prove you use the same scriptures.
Your spirituality is a fundamental schizm from Judaism. It is fundamentally differnt in form, function, and doctrine.
Islam also counts Abraham as father, both spiritually AND ethnically, and their beliefs are much closer to Judaism than is Christianity. Why don't we hear of Muslim Christians? The reason we don't is nbecause Christianity and Islam are two different in doctrine and beliefs to entertain such a combination. The same exists for Judaism and Christianity. AS far as you both using the OT goes, your interpretation of the Jews scriptures are a lot different than theirs is, which further ceded to the inability of a person to be both Jewish and Christian by religion.
of course to a messianic jews, and me , your in error
http://jewsforjesus.org/
http://www.messianicjewishonline.com/
I can post tones of links, but I wont bother
Tyson
gia said: "Jesus as God is
Posted on: 02/24/2010 20:50
gia said:
"Jesus as God is problematic."
Perhaps for you.
Witch
Of course to actual Jews, you
Posted on: 02/24/2010 20:52
Of course to actual Jews, you and Messianic "Jews" are in error.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
I can post tons of links, but I won't bother
blackbelt
Witch wrote: Of course to
Posted on: 02/24/2010 20:57
Of course to actual Jews, you and Messianic "Jews" are in error.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewsandjesus/
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
I can post tons of links, but I won't bother
I have already stated that Jews for Jesus is smaller than gentiles, the point is that there are more and more as life Goes by that are comming to rellise that Jesus is God
Witch
blackbelt wrote: I have
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:01
I have already stated that Jews for Jesus is smaller than gentiles, the point is that there are more and more as life Goes by that are comming to rellise that Jesus is God
That's twice now you've brought that up. What has the number of "Jews for Jesus" in relation to Gentiles got to do with anything I've said?
And so the number of Jews being converted to Christianity is growing.... again what does that have to do with it?
blackbelt
consumingfire V3.0
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:02
gia said:
"Jesus as God is problematic."
Perhaps for you.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:05
I have already stated that Jews for Jesus is smaller than gentiles, the point is that there are more and more as life Goes by that are comming to rellise that Jesus is God
That's twice now you've brought that up. What has the number of "Jews for Jesus" in relation to Gentiles got to do with anything I've said?
And so the number of Jews being converted to Christianity is growing.... again what does that have to do with it?
there not converting to christanity, thats the part you dont get, there accepting the fullness of there spirtuial heratage as prophised in there scriptures.
Witch
blackbelt wrote: there not
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:14
there not converting to christanity, thats the part you dont get, there accepting the fullness of there spirtuial heratage as prophised in there scriptures.
They are converting to Christianity, that's the part you do not get. They are abandoning the basic premises and doctrines of Jewish religion, and adopting the premises and doctrine of Christian religion.
The jews do not have any prophecies in their religion or scriptures which refer to God in more than one person, God being the sacrifice for humans, or the Messiah being God.
Did you even read the links I sent you? Never mind it's quite obvious you don't want to know what Jews believe.
I know you really have to ignore what Jews actually believe in order to maintain the illusion that Christianity and Judaism are essentially the same, but that Jews are just missing something. People of the Jewish faith have no such requirement.
Do yourself a favour and read the links I gave you, especially the second. That link is specifically from Jews who explain why "Messianic Jews" are not following the Jewish religion.
Of course you won't, though. You can't take the chance of seeing something that might upset your idea of what Jews believe.
Witch
You still havn't answered why
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:16
You still havn't answered why you keep bringing up the number of "Messianic Jews" in relation to the number of gentiles, or what bearing an increase in their numbers has on anything being discussed here.
I'm just curious as to why you think either point is significant.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:55
there not converting to christanity, thats the part you dont get, there accepting the fullness of there spirtuial heratage as prophised in there scriptures.
They are converting to Christianity, that's the part you do not get. They are abandoning the basic premises and doctrines of Jewish religion, and adopting the premises and doctrine of Christian religion.
The jews do not have any prophecies in their religion or scriptures which refer to God in more than one person, God being the sacrifice for humans, or the Messiah being God.
Did you even read the links I sent you? Never mind it's quite obvious you don't want to know what Jews believe.
I know you really have to ignore what Jews actually believe in order to maintain the illusion that Christianity and Judaism are essentially the same, but that Jews are just missing something. People of the Jewish faith have no such requirement.
Do yourself a favour and read the links I gave you, especially the second. That link is specifically from Jews who explain why "Messianic Jews" are not following the Jewish religion.
Of course you won't, though. You can't take the chance of seeing something that might upset your idea of what Jews believe.
there are over 300 prophises of Jesus in the OT scriptures, Jewses for jesus believe them of course ,christians also, and of course other jews dont.
what else is new
blackbelt
Witch wrote: You still havn't
Posted on: 02/24/2010 21:54
You still havn't answered why you keep bringing up the number of "Messianic Jews" in relation to the number of gentiles, or what bearing an increase in their numbers has on anything being discussed here.
I'm just curious as to why you think either point is significant.
i dont think its significant, your the one who brought it up, here is what you said , quoteing you
" They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews."
Witch
blackbelt wrote: Witch
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:03
You still havn't answered why you keep bringing up the number of "Messianic Jews" in relation to the number of gentiles, or what bearing an increase in their numbers has on anything being discussed here.
I'm just curious as to why you think either point is significant.
i dont think its significant, your the one who brought it up, here is what you said , quoteing you
" They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews."
Wow.
So inn a statement I made comparing the number of Messianic Jews to the number of all Jews put together.... a statement in which I made no mention at all of Gentiles..... neither directly nor by intimation....
You pulled out of that that I was bringing up Gentiles?
I have to say I'm at a loss for words. I always supected you completely ignored what anyone else was saying, but I never thought to have it made so plain.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:22
You still havn't answered why you keep bringing up the number of "Messianic Jews" in relation to the number of gentiles, or what bearing an increase in their numbers has on anything being discussed here.
I'm just curious as to why you think either point is significant.
i dont think its significant, your the one who brought it up, here is what you said , quoteing you
" They are also a fringe minority among ethnic Jews."
Wow.
So inn a statement I made comparing the number of Messianic Jews to the number of all Jews put together.... a statement in which I made no mention at all of Gentiles..... neither directly nor by intimation....
You pulled out of that that I was bringing up Gentiles?
I have to say I'm at a loss for words. I always supected you completely ignored what anyone else was saying, but I never thought to have it made so plain.
what does this have to do with gentles, you have selective hearing but in this case its selective reading syndrom.
you basically made a statement that Jews who believe in Jesus is small, and i basically said , so what
that witch is the just of it in a nut shell
Witch
Your saying I have selective
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:46
Your saying I have selective hearing/reading about my own statements? Interesting...
Ahhh so the reference to Gentiles was just a red herring to avoid the actual question. OK I can live with that.
The number of Jews who convert to Christianity, under the name "Messianic Jews", in comparison to all other Jews is an important bit of information. You have intimated that "Messianic Jews" is a growing and significant trend among Jews. I suspect you'll find that if you do an actual count, it only qualifies as a "fringe movement"
And that doesn't take into account the numbers of Christians who are abandoning the idea of Christ, and turning to Judaism.
I'd be willing to bet it's practically the same number both ways. If that were the case it would decrease the importance of the "Messianic Jews" fashion to nothing.
MorningCalm
Greatest I am wrote: Jesus as
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:48
Jesus as God is problematic.
Yes, I agree. Jesus as God is problematic -- to the human mind. We simply don't have enough reasoning ability to fully grasp how a person could be totally human, and yet totally God. The Trinity is also a mystery. One God, but three distinct persons in that one God, all of whom are in and of themselves totally God. We really just can't grasp the whole entity. And yet, I for one believe it all to be true.
blackbelt
Witch wrote: Your saying I
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:52
Your saying I have selective hearing/reading about my own statements? Interesting...
Ahhh so the reference to Gentiles was just a red herring to avoid the actual question. OK I can live with that.
The number of Jews who convert to Christianity, under the name "Messianic Jews", in comparison to all other Jews is an important bit of information. You have intimated that "Messianic Jews" is a growing and significant trend among Jews. I suspect you'll find that if you do an actual count, it only qualifies as a "fringe movement"
And that doesn't take into account the numbers of Christians who are abandoning the idea of Christ, and turning to Judaism.
I'd be willing to bet it's practically the same number both ways. If that were the case it would decrease the importance of the "Messianic Jews" fashion to nothing.
i guess you and i will just have to waite and see how it will all play out in the end, for me my chips have be placed already
Ichthys
You have to learn a lot my
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:53
You have to learn a lot my brother/sister.
Yes, I agree. Jesus as God is problematic -- to the human mind. We simply don't have enough reasoning ability to fully grasp how a person could be totally human, and yet totally God. The Trinity is also a mystery. One God, but three distinct persons in that one God, all of whom are in and of themselves totally God. We really just can't grasp the whole entity. And yet, I for one believe it all to be true.
Beautiful. Amen.
777
Witch
Don't we all?
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:56
Don't we all?
Witch
blackbelt wrote: guess you
Posted on: 02/24/2010 23:58
guess you and i will just have to waite and see how it will all play out in the end, for me my chips have be placed already
If you wish. God would rather I didn't gamble with my eternity, so I don't use chips.... just faith.
MorningCalm
Witch wrote: If you wish. God
Posted on: 02/25/2010 00:01
If you wish. God would rather I didn't gamble with my eternity, so I don't use chips.... just faith.
I love to use chips. I prefer the Lays ones with 50% less salt.
Witch
match3frog. wrote: Witch
Posted on: 02/25/2010 00:04
If you wish. God would rather I didn't gamble with my eternity, so I don't use chips.... just faith.
I love to use chips. I prefer the Lays ones with 50% less salt.
Wouldn't that make you 50% less salt of the earth though?
blackbelt
Witch wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 02/25/2010 00:26
guess you and i will just have to waite and see how it will all play out in the end, for me my chips have be placed already
If you wish. God would rather I didn't gamble with my eternity, so I don't use chips.... just faith.
thats why I place faith in Jesus, i know hes a sure bet
MorningCalm
Witch wrote: Wouldn't that
Posted on: 02/25/2010 00:34
Wouldn't that make you 50% less salt of the earth though?
*chuckle*
Of course not. I get my salt in other ways. I have to. It's one of the four food groups.
Salt, deep-fried, sugar, and beer.
kaythecurler
We'd better be careful that
Posted on: 02/25/2010 00:38
We'd better be careful that none of us turn into a modern version of Lot's wife.
Mate
GIA Once again an
Posted on: 02/25/2010 01:15
GIA
Once again an interesting topic.
Jesus was a Jewish peasant. He was born in the most normal and average way. In my view the theology of the Trinity I have no problem with. The "Trinity" expresses the three ways in which the ancients experienced God. To say that Jesus manifested God in his life and teachings is not to say that he was God. Trinity is a metaphor for something that the ancients could not come to grips with. The Bible is clear as is the Qur'an that there is only one God not three otherwise Christianity is not a monotheist faith.
The "son of man" was and ancient phrase used to refer to all kinds of important peoplei.e. Caesar for one. It is a phrase that simply means a human being. The term messiah was also a term used for important people. Even the phrase "son of God" was used to describe important folks back then.
If one follows the gospels in the order in which they were written we can see the development of the prson of Jesus from a man to a God. These are the theological trappings to this most unique and profound man. He was an apocalyptic Jew and a spirit person. whom we have tried to turn into a God. We are called to follow this Jesus who himself said "Why do you call me good. Only the Father is good.:" (para) This Jesus always deferred to God the Father.
Was Jesus God? I would say yes, but in the same way that Arminius has pointed out in the concept of panentheism.
So am I a Christian? Absolutely. I follow, with God's help, in the footsteps of one Jesus of Nazareth.
For those who would like to judge me that is God's role and others should look to the plank in their own eye.
Shalom
Mate
stoneeyeball
Normal 0 If Jesus
Posted on: 02/25/2010 08:22
Normal
0
If Jesus is God, then who did He pray to?
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all existence. This one God exists as three persons: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are not three gods, but one God. Each is a separate person, yet each of them is, in essence, divine in nature.
A close analogy of the Trinity can be found by looking at the concept of time. Time is past, present, and future. There are three "aspects" or "parts" of time. This does not mean that there are three "times," but only one. Each is separate, in a sense, yet each shares the same nature, or essence. In a similar way, the Trinity is three separate persons who share the same nature.
The Incarnation
The doctrine of the incarnation in Christian teaching is that Jesus, who is the second person of the Trinity, added to himself human nature and became a man.
The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....and the word became flesh and dwelt among us," (John 1:1, 14); and, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," (Col. 2:9). Jesus, therefore, has two natures. He is both God and man.
Jesus is completely human, but He also has a divine nature.
GOD
MAN
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 20:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)
He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 19:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)
As a man, Jesus needed to pray. When He was praying he was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father.
stoneeyeball
Normal 0 If Jesus
Posted on: 02/25/2010 08:22
Normal
0
If Jesus is God, then who did He pray to?
The Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in all existence. This one God exists as three persons: The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are not three gods, but one God. Each is a separate person, yet each of them is, in essence, divine in nature.
A close analogy of the Trinity can be found by looking at the concept of time. Time is past, present, and future. There are three "aspects" or "parts" of time. This does not mean that there are three "times," but only one. Each is separate, in a sense, yet each shares the same nature, or essence. In a similar way, the Trinity is three separate persons who share the same nature.
The Incarnation
The doctrine of the incarnation in Christian teaching is that Jesus, who is the second person of the Trinity, added to himself human nature and became a man.
The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....and the word became flesh and dwelt among us," (John 1:1, 14); and, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form," (Col. 2:9). Jesus, therefore, has two natures. He is both God and man.
Jesus is completely human, but He also has a divine nature.
GOD
MAN
He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; 28:9)
He is prayed to (Acts 7:59; 1 Cor. 1:2)
He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8)
He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1)
He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15)
He knew all things (John 21:17)
He gives eternal life (John 20:28)
The fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9)
He worshiped the Father (John 17)
He prayed to the Father (John 17:1)
He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5).
He was called Son of Man (John 19:35-37)
He was tempted (Matt. 4:1)
He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52)
He died (Rom. 5:8)
He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39)
As a man, Jesus needed to pray. When He was praying he was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father.
airclean33
Good morning- Witch-I Didn't
Posted on: 02/25/2010 09:54
Good morning- Witch-I Didn't know Wiccan used the Holy Bible.You know more about it than most Christians I meet.But knowing it an understanding it are two differnt things.READ Epheians 2-11x22--Please I was going to write it out. but I think you have a Lot to read . From my brother Just ahead of me.(STONEEYBALL).--------G-I-A You to If you like THEN Please Explain.
airclean33
Oh I forgot to say the man
Posted on: 02/25/2010 10:00
Oh I forgot to say the man Who Wrote this was a born JEW
boltupright
How can one say that there is
Posted on: 02/25/2010 11:52
How can one say that there is power in the name of Jesus, when His name Has an error within the translation?
If "J " didn't exist in the english alphabet before translation to english, then what would His name be?
How would it sound, when spoken by the very voice of Cephas?
Is His name important? Does His blood cleanse? Does His Body heal?
The stripes of man, on his back, from being whipped & beaten down, do they heal?
Is there power in His name? Or is the power in the message?
The Spirit behind the message, that Backs It?
Jesus wasn't kidding when He said He would bring division.
Bolt