unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

Marriage and The Bible--Be Ye Not Unequally Yoked

 

Can a Born Again Christian have a happy fulfilling Marriage to a Non Believer or will there be many conflicts arise in the relationship making it more difficult to obtain peace and harmony in the marriage.

 

The Bible says we should be equally yoked to have a solid partnership

 

2 Corinthians 6-14--15 King James   : Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?  And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

 

Can we humans be compassionate enough to allow our beliefs not to interfere with our relationship ---allowing each partner to be able to express there belief while still maintaining a healthy --peaceful--productive marriage . 

 

Your thoughts on this.   

Share this

Comments

MistsOfSpring's picture

MistsOfSpring

image

A Baptist minister refused to marry my brother and his wife because she's Christian and he's agnostic.  Since he had agreed to marry them in the first place and then had second thoughts about it later, they had to scramble to find someone who WOULD marry them without a lot of notice.  Fortunately, there was a United Church minister who was available that day (they had already booked the hall and DJ and everything) and it worked out ok.

I don't think their religious differences make much of a difference in their lives, but I really think that's due to a couple of things.  FIrst, she's fairly liberal in her religious views.  I think if she were conservative in her approach, there would be a much bigger gulf between them.  Secondly, they don't have any kids and don't plan to.  As two married adults they can simply agree to disagree, but if they had kids religion would likely become a bigger issue since they would each want to raise them to believe certain things.

 

Even my husband and I have the religious differences thing come up sometimes with our daughter, and our differences are fairly slight.  I'm a spiritual person who leans towards there being a God, but who isn't sure, and he's a more logical/scientific type who leans towards there not being a God, but isn't sure.  If we can't quite agree on what to teach our daughter, I can't imagine how hard it must be for people of very different faiths, especially if they are very conservative about their faiths.

Mendalla's picture

Mendalla

image

A lot depends on:

 

a) what kind of Born-again Christian? If the Born-again partner is some kind of hard-core fundamentalist type, then I doubt they'd be together in the first place (unless the conversion happened after the marriage). If they are a moderate or progressive Christian (yes, these can be born-again, too), then it might work.

 

b) the faith of the non-Born Again partner. If they are still Christian, just not the same type as the Born-again partner, then it's possible. If they are fairly open and not extreme in their own position, then it might be possible. If they are hardcore atheist or Catholic or something, then, again, it's unlikely the marriage would even happen.

 

c) How does the Born Again partner interpret that verse (that's a biggie)?

 

In the end, it becomes another issue that the couple would have to work through, like how to manage money or whether to have kids. The personalities of the two partners would probably be as important as the Bible, in the end. But, that can be the case even in less extreme cases of religious differences.

 

Mendalla

 

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

----Good comments - especially about what to teach your children when the beliefs are different --that would be a tricky one for me. 

 

Just a question--

 

You both brought up the difference in the way certain religions think -- Like Mendall you brought up Catholic and MistOfSpring you brought up Baptist should religions even come into play as to who marries who . Should the Baptist Minister have the right to refuse to marry 2 people who want to be together reguardless of their belief status. 

 

Maybe revjohn or GordW or Rev. Steven could comment on that .  

chansen's picture

chansen

image

Any minister can refuse to marry anyone.  Nobody has a right to be married in any given church.  I was married in an Anglican church, though I've mentioned before that my wife's family had donated so much money to that church over the previous 7 decades, that they would have married us if we were both Satanists.

 

People can not be turned away from city hall or any other public marriage option or facility.  Justices of the Peace who turn people away due to personal beliefs should and do find themselves unemployed.

BornFree's picture

BornFree

image

Mendalla wrote:

b) the faith of the non-Born Again partner. If they are still Christian,

 

 

In my experience that is an oxymoron.

GordW's picture

GordW

image

chansen wrote:

Any minister can refuse to marry anyone.  Nobody has a right to be married in any given church.  I was married in an Anglican church, though I've mentioned before that my wife's family had donated so much money to that church over the previous 7 decades, that they would have married us if we were both Satanists.

 

People can not be turned away from city hall or any other public marriage option or facility.  Justices of the Peace who turn people away due to personal beliefs should and do find themselves unemployed.

In this I agree with chansen.  As a matter of law it is true. 

GordW's picture

GordW

image

BornFree wrote:

Mendalla wrote:

b) the faith of the non-Born Again partner. If they are still Christian,

 

 In my experience that is an oxymoron.

But not in many people's. Part of it is the loaded nature of the phrase "Born Again".  Many Christians refuse to use that language because it carries so much extra weight that they reject.

Witch's picture

Witch

image

Considering that born-again christian marriages suffer the same rate of divorce as any other group (BARNA) I find it hard to see how you could make a case for "equally-yoked" being any better a marriage than unequally yoked.

Dcn. Jae's picture

Dcn. Jae

image

My wife and I are unequally yoked. She's a Presbyterian. I'm a Baptist. We have learned to love and respect each other despite our differences.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi unsafe,

 

unsafe wrote:

Can a Born Again Christian have a happy fulfilling Marriage to a Non Believer or will there be many conflicts arise in the relationship making it more difficult to obtain peace and harmony in the marriage.

 

I would suppose that would depend on how reasonable both are prepared to be and their commitment to love one another.

 

What if they are married and one spouse becomes "born again" does Paul tell them to divorce or to continue to love one another?

 

unsafe wrote:

The Bible says we should be equally yoked to have a solid partnership

 

Does equally yoked mean temperment, belief or ability?

 

Does equally yoked mean believing the same thing on all points?

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi unsafe,

 

unsafe wrote:

Should the Baptist Minister have the right to refuse to marry 2 people who want to be together reguardless of their belief status. 

 

Yes.  The Baptist Minister should have the right to refuse to marry 2 people.

 

How he uses or abuses that right is a testament to that Baptist Minister's belief and personal integrity.

 

Getting married is a right in Canada.  Getting married in a Church is not a right it is a privilege.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

spiritbear's picture

spiritbear

image

Seems to me that part of the initial thread was whether a couple with different (or lack of) religious viewpoint would be compatible.  As to the minister first agreeing to marry them, then refusing, I think that shows bad faith, but is his right, as rejohn points out, church marriages are not a right whereas civil marriages are. Nonetheless, it does tell one something about that particular denomination (exclusivity) that if I were a member, would make me serioiusly reconsider if its practice was consistent with what I believed.

 

But on the compatability issue, it's no different than if a Liberal and a Conservative (or NDP & Conservative) were considering marriage.  In my household, even though my wife and I belong to the same denomination (UCCan), religious topics are rarely, if ever discussed. In some households, political topics are rarely discussed.  So it wouldn't be an issue even if we had different faiths.  And then it would also matter how important it would be to one individual that the other had to agree with them (as it would be with political differences).

 

When it comes to religious practice, again drawing from  personal experience, my wife and I attend different churches, even though we're both UCCan.  So it's no different than one spouse being a theatre type and the other being a sports type, and attending different social functions.  (Mind you, my wife being very concerned about "appearances", this arrangement isn't totally without friction, but it still seems to work out -  but that's a different issue).

 

 Many churches (eg RC), use the denial of marriage privileges as a recruitment tool (hoping that the non-member spouse will be forced to join). While there is the rare occasion where this might get the non-member spouse to take the other spouse's faith more seriously, it doesn't necessarily make a "believer" out of that spouse, and in this regard I wonder how useful it is being a "pretend" member.

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

image

unsafe wrote:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?  And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

 

It makes sense that the writers of the Bible, waaay back then, would write something like that...to ensure the survival of their faith, it makes practical sense to make sure that their followers only marry like-minded folk.

 

unsafe wrote:

Can we humans be compassionate enough to allow our beliefs not to interfere with our relationship ---allowing each partner to be able to express there belief while still maintaining a healthy --peaceful--productive marriage .

 

Indeed, people can, if people are honest with themselves and their prospective partner and KNOW themselves to the degree that they will be able to predict what they can and cannot handle.

 

(if one is a fundamentalist -- of any sort, there are many different kinds and not just religious -- then their one size fits all worldview will only fit with another one size fits all...and so forth)

 

Jesus taught us to get rid of our silly tribalisms (of the mind, of the body, of the heart), which involves knowing thyself really, really well (and it doesn't mean that we have to adopt another's lifestyle, but knowing how and why).

 

But I don't think the Bible, in itself, can teach how people can do this.  That takes other means.  Training and methods of self-learning to supplement the various axioms that are taken on faith.

 

EDIT:  and living life, which means making mistakes (which is part of learning).  And consulting certain 'Subject Matter Experts' like mawwige councillors.

BornFree's picture

BornFree

image

revjohn wrote:

 

What if they are married and one spouse becomes "born again" does Paul tell them to divorce or to continue to love one another?

 

 

The bible says in 1 Cor. 7:12-14 (Msg)  

    For the rest of you who are in mixed marriages—Christian married to nonChristian—we have no explicit command from the Master.

 

So this is what you must do. If you are a man with a wife who is not a believer but who still wants to live with you, hold on to her.

 

If you are a woman with a husband who is not a believer but he wants to live with you, hold on to him.

 

The unbelieving husband shares to an extent in the holiness of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is likewise touched by the holiness of her husband. Otherwise, your children would be left out; as it is, they also are included in the spiritual purposes of God.

 

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi revjohn    Your Quote   :Does equally yoked mean temperment, belief or ability?

 Does equally yoked mean believing the same thing on all points?

 

Genesis 2-24 says   :24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

 

This says to me they join as one with God's way of thinking in all areas of living life.Here are 2 versions of commentary on this scripture.

 

Forerunner Commentary
 

 

Genesis 2:24

 

This verse shows that two human personalities can become one flesh. Why, then, can God not be one with two distinct personalities who work independently yet in complete harmony? Paul adds in I Corinthians 6:17, "But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." If a human can be one with God and remain entirely distinct, why cannot another spirit being with a separate personality be one with Him?

Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/55/eVerseID/55#ixzz1HpioIOLa

 

This is another commentary on that scripture

 

Genesis 2:24

 

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother - There shall be, by the order of God, a more intimate connection formed between the man and woman, than can subsist even between parents and children.

And they shall be one flesh - These words may be understood in a twofold sense.

1.These two shall be one flesh, shall be considered as one body, having no separate or independent rights, privileges, cares, concerns, etc., each being equally interested in all things that concern the marriage state.

2.These two shall be for the production of one flesh; from their union a posterity shall spring, as exactly resembling themselves as they do each other.

Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/55/eVerseID/55/RTD/Clarke#ixzz1Hpk0vPAU

 

 

1 Corinthians 7:13-15 (New International Version, ©2011)

13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

 15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

 

So this scripture says to me if the 2 are willing to stay married then they should but if one wants to leave then they can and are not bound to stay married as there will be no peace in the marriage.

 

This is how I see it. 

 

 

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi revjohn   Your Quote  :Getting married is a right in Canada.  Getting married in a Church is not a right it is a privilege.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me --

MistsOfSpring's picture

MistsOfSpring

image

I should probably explain the situation with my brother and sister-in-law a bit more since people are discussing the part about the minister changing his mind.

 

Neither of them were attending any churches at the time.  She had attended a Baptist church in her teens/early twenties and felt comfortable with it, but she didn't want to go back to her old church because that was where her ex-fiance and his family went.  They went to a different Baptist church in town and met with the minister.  He talked with both of them and they were both quite open with him; my brother was upfront about being agnostic (almost to the point of atheist but not quite) and she was upfront about being a believer.  He agreed to marry them and she started to attend his church.  After a couple of months, he asked to speak to them both and said that he didn't realize how great the difference was between the two of them when he had agreed to marry them.  He had thought that she was a believer in the sense of believing in God, but it was clear from her attendance and other conversations that he had had with her that she was "truly Christian" (quotation marks are my own...I don't know exactly what he said, but this is how it came across to them at least).  He said he had prayed about it and realized that he couldn't in good conscience marry them. 

 

They were both angry, not because he wouldn't marry them but because he changed his mind after so much time when everything else was organized.  They felt they had been very upfront about their beliefs and that he might have been assuming that she was exaggerating her own beliefs in order to "get on his good side" so he'd perform the wedding.  Apparently a number of non-believers do this.  I don't know how much of the issue is related to denomination and how much is just this specific minister, although I will say that in my experience the Baptists I have known have been far more conservative in their beliefs than those in the United Church that I've known.

Jim Kenney's picture

Jim Kenney

image

The opening post used the term "unrighteous" -- I would hope that this is not equal to being a non-believer.

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

image

Why wouldn't it be?  We unbelievers are morally deserving of eternal torture for our prideful and/pr hardened hearts.  Don'cha know?

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

image

Jim Kenney wrote:

The opening post used the term "unrighteous" -- I would hope that this is not equal to being a non-believer.

 

Of course it does -- read the Biblical quotation.  Remember that Paul was trying to sell His Paulanity, so there is the social control aspect of what He wrote.  And that was directed at a specific audience.

 

What believers can do now is they can look at their lives and how they go aboot the world and look to these bits in the Bible and decide for themselves what they mean and don't mean to them...which sombunall of the time amounts to looking at the spilled coffee grains on the floor and looking for patterns or, more often, I think, following the BS of a certain Pastor/Father/whichever who promotes a certain interpretation of their religion.

 

And so it goes :3

Saul_now_Paul's picture

Saul_now_Paul

image

Azdgari wrote:

Why wouldn't it be?  We unbelievers are morally deserving of eternal torture for our prideful and/pr hardened hearts.  Don'cha know?

 

Same with us Christians.

 

On the plus side, a believer's faith can save a non-believing spouse.

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

image

Preventing someone from getting eternal torture in a case where that person actually deserves eternal torture is unjust, because they're not getting what they rightfully deserve.

 

I don't hold that anyone deserves such treatment, but it logically follows that if someone does, then it is morally right that they get it.  Are you saying that a believer's faith has unjust repercussions?

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi BornFree,

 

BornFree wrote:

So this is what you must do. If you are a man with a wife who is not a believer but who still wants to live with you, hold on to her.

 

So the it would seem that being unequally yoked is to be preferred over rendering covenants null and void.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi unsafe,

 

unsafe wrote:

This says to me they join as one with God's way of thinking in all areas of living life.Here are 2 versions of commentary on this scripture.

 

Becoming one flesh is not primarily an activity which requires a lot of thinking.  More thought may be put into setting the stage for becoming one flesh.  Becoming one flesh would not result in being unequally yoked.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 


unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi revjohn   Your Quote :Becoming one flesh is not primarily an activity which requires a lot of thinking.  More thought may be put into setting the stage for becoming one flesh.  Becoming one flesh would not result in being unequally yoked.

 

John understanding what Flesh means is the thing ---the flesh is a mind set meaning  both people need to be of the same mind set --it is a way of thinking -there is the worlds way of thinking and then there is God's way of thinking  . Both people need to be on the same page if you have 2 unbelievers together they will have the the mind set of this world . If you have 2 saved people together they will have a spiritual mind set , If you have 1 person who has the mind set of the world and the other of God's mind set there may be conflict.  This is where your being yoked together is needed ---the mind

 

Romans 8 v 5 -8  

 5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

 

“The mind of the flesh is enmity against God” (v. 8). It is hostile toward God. It hates God. It is impossible for anyone who is dominated by the flesh to gain divine approval.

 

The mind of the flesh” includes the cognitive activities of reason, the emotional responses, and volition controlled by the sinful flesh. The Christian has his mind “set on what the Spirit desires.” Is this your habitual thinking? Do you desire to please Him? The unbeliever has his mind set on what the “sinful nature” desires. The action of one is spiritual life and peace, whereas the other is spiritual death.

 

Peace

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi unsafe,

 

unsafe wrote:

John understanding what Flesh means is the thing

 

True.  It means something very different in Genesis 2:  24 than it does in Romans 8:  5

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Dcn. Jae's picture

Dcn. Jae

image

revjohn wrote:
Becoming one flesh is not primarily an activity which requires a lot of thinking...

 

It does when you're an INTJ.

chansen's picture

chansen

image

unsafe wrote:

“The mind of the flesh is enmity against God” (v. 8). It is hostile toward God. It hates God. It is impossible for anyone who is dominated by the flesh to gain divine approval.

 

The mind of the flesh” includes the cognitive activities of reason, the emotional responses, and volition controlled by the sinful flesh. The Christian has his mind “set on what the Spirit desires.” Is this your habitual thinking? Do you desire to please Him? The unbeliever has his mind set on what the “sinful nature” desires. The action of one is spiritual life and peace, whereas the other is spiritual death.

 

If anyone tells you that to your ability to reason is somehow a bad thing, run away.  Run far away.  This is simply an attempt to control you, and needs to be recognized and denounced as such.  It doesn't matter if the claim has a basis in scripture - anyone who thinks this is already half brain-dead and should be avoided.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi MorningCalm,

 

MorningCalm wrote:

It does when you're an INTJ.

 

I score as an INTJ.

 

My experience of becoming one flesh must differ from yours.  I can think about it, have thought about it and will think about it again (no doubt soon and often).  The thinking about is like a rehearsal and the becoming one flesh the big show.

 

If you are thinking about it during the show you haven't rehearsed enough and your performance suffers.

 

Remember th N in INTJ stands for intuitive.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

 

BornFree's picture

BornFree

image

revjohn wrote:

Hi BornFree,

 

BornFree wrote:

So this is what you must do. If you are a man with a wife who is not a believer but who still wants to live with you, hold on to her.

 

So the it would seem that being unequally yoked is to be preferred over rendering covenants null and void.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

You made it look like I wrote that but it was pasted from the scripture that was imbedded in my post.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi BornFree,

 

BornFree wrote:

You made it look like I wrote that but it was pasted from the scripture that was imbedded in my post.

 

My apologies if my improperly attributing scriptural text to you results in a misrepresentation of your position.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Rev. Steven Davis's picture

Rev. Steven Davis

image

unsafe wrote:
 Should the Baptist Minister have the right to refuse to marry 2 people who want to be together reguardless of their belief status. 

 

Maybe revjohn or GordW or Rev. Steven could comment on that .  

 

Briefly, yes, we should have that right - and we do in general terms. Dispute would erupt if a particular congregation had a policy of - say - agreeing to the marriage of any couple who are legally allowed to get married, but the minister for one reason or another has a problem with a marriage he or she is asked to conduct, although I would think in such case as long as a minister willing to conduct the service was found there'd be no significant problem. To date (in 17 years) I have never refused to perform a marriage. I have raised questions when I think a couple haven't explored an issue sufficiently that I think will lead to problems. For example, I always ask a couple if they've discussed whether they want children and if they haven't I'd likely suggest that they do so before getting married, because unexpected differences on that issue can lead to a lot of problems. I once did raise a concern with a local Pentecostal pastor in Newfoundland (where the Pentecostals aren't allowed to remarry divorced people) about him sending divorced members of his congregation to me to get married and then welcoming them back with open arms after I performed the marriage. My objection wasn't over divorced persons remarrying per se, but was rather over the fact that the pastor himself was using the United Church to avoid his own denomination's position on the issue.

 

On the issue of being "unequally yoked" sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. I acknowledge Witch's citation of the Barna study. Years ago I do seem to remember a study which suggested that the most successful marriages (at least in terms of the lowest rate of divorce) were among either people who shared the same or similar religious views or those who had no religion at all. Those whose religious views were quite different (either different religions or very different denominational affiliation) had a higher rate of divorce. Part of the difficulty in those circumstances had to do with disputes over child-rearing. I'm sorry - I can't cite the source of that study. It was many years ago that I read it and I don't remember where I found it. I don't deny the possibility that more recent work contradicts it.

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Rev . Steven Davis

 

Thanks for your input very informative . I appreciate you taking your time to comment.

 

Peace and Blessings

 

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi revjohn   Your Quote  : It means something very different in Genesis 2:  24 than it does in Romans 8:  5

 

In your opinion what does it mean in Genesis 2 -24 maybe you can enlighten me on this . I value your opinion. 

 

Peace

chansen's picture

chansen

image

Rev. Steven Davis wrote:
I once did raise a concern with a local Pentecostal pastor in Newfoundland (where the Pentecostals aren't allowed to remarry divorced people) about him sending divorced members of his congregation to me to get married and then welcoming them back with open arms after I performed the marriage. My objection wasn't over divorced persons remarrying per se, but was rather over the fact that the pastor himself was using the United Church to avoid his own denomination's position on the issue.

 

The Pentacostal pastor was subcontracting jobs he couldn't perform to you?  I can relate.  I do most of my own home improvements, but I'll be hiring an HVAC company to install my air conditioner.  My religion forbids me from handling refrigerants.

BornFree's picture

BornFree

image

unsafe wrote:

 

Hi revjohn   Your Quote  : It means something very different in Genesis 2:  24 than it does in Romans 8:  5

 

In your opinion what does it mean in Genesis 2 -24 maybe you can enlighten me on this . I value your opinion. 

 

Peace

 

Hi unsafe,

 

I'd like to respond if you don't mind.

 

The way I have understood those as different, the Genesis account, is to become one in body or person. You become united as "one".

In the New Testament it, typically, means human nature or sin nature.

 

The original Greek and Hebrew testify to this also.

 

Hebrew "flesh" (Gen 2:24) - baw-sawr'; from Hebrew 1319 (basar); flesh (from its freshness); by extension body, person; also (by euphemism) the pudenda of a man :- body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin. 

basar,

 

Greek "flesh" (Rom 8:5) -sarx; probably from the base of Greek 4563 (saroo); flesh (as stripped of the skin), i.e. (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul [or spirit], or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred), or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties [physical or moral] and passions), or (special) a human being (as such) :- carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

sarx,

 

 

 

 

Dcn. Jae's picture

Dcn. Jae

image

revjohn wrote:
I score as an INTJ.

 

Kewl.

 

Quote:
My experience of becoming one flesh must differ from yours.  I can think about it, have thought about it and will think about it again (no doubt soon and often).  The thinking about is like a rehearsal and the becoming one flesh the big show.

 

If you are thinking about it during the show you haven't rehearsed enough and your performance suffers.

 

Yep. I agree. I need more rehearsal.

 

Quote:
Remember th N in INTJ stands for intuitive.

 

Don't I know it! My N is very high.

 

Tell me, how does your INTJness help/hinder your ministry?

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi Born Free

 

Thanks for your interpretation and your information but I would still like to have revjohn's perception on what the flesh in this passage if he would be so inclined to do so.

 

Peace

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi Born Free --Your Quote    Hebrew "flesh" (Gen 2:24) - baw-sawr'; from Hebrew 1319 (basar); flesh (from its freshness); by extension body, person; also (by euphemism) the pudenda of a man :- body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin. 

basar,

 

Maybe you could enlighten me on what the flesh means in this passage Genesis 2 -24 --does it mean the 2 bodys become 1 and how do you get 2 seperate bodies of fesh to emerge into one when they marry . 

 

Peace

revjohn's picture

revjohn

image

Hi unsafe,

 

unsafe wrote:

In your opinion what does it mean in Genesis 2 -24 maybe you can enlighten me on this . I value your opinion. 

 

Physical/emotional union.  God is not mandatory but certainly improves things in my opinion.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

BornFree's picture

BornFree

image

unsafe wrote:

 

Hi Born Free --Your Quote    Hebrew "flesh" (Gen 2:24) - baw-sawr'; from Hebrew 1319 (basar); flesh (from its freshness); by extension body, person; also (by euphemism) the pudenda of a man :- body, [fat, lean] flesh [-ed], kin, [man-] kind, + nakedness, self, skin. 

basar,

 

Maybe you could enlighten me on what the flesh means in this passage Genesis 2 -24 --does it mean the 2 bodys become 1 and how do you get 2 seperate bodies of fesh to emerge into one when they marry . 

 

Peace

 

The scripture from the KJV says "cleave":

 

Genesis 2:24 (KJV) 
    Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

 

Here is the Hebrew for that in that verse.

 

cleave -  daw-bak'; a primitive root; properly to impinge, i.e. cling or adhere; figurative to catch by pursuit :- abide fast, cleave (fast together), follow close (hard after), be joined (together), keep (fast), overtake, pursue hard, stick, take. 

dabaq,

 

My interpretation of this is that they become one entity, such as one couple, but if they have done this with God's blessing then it should remain one and inseparable. Their spirits become intertwined and thus "one".

 

Take it metaphorically.

 

You could say a tree that has grown from two seeds planted against each other grow into one tree with all the similarities and dependencies of each other. Hence one tree.

 

So in the same sense they become one body yet physically separate but from the same root and nourishment (God)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi revjohn and Born Free   ---Thanks for your input I appreciate your comments .

 

I was still not settled about the meaning of one flesh in this passage so I decided to pray and ask The Holy Spirit to give me the understanding and knowledge and guidance that would help me to better understand what this passage was about.

 

The Holy spirit told me the answer was in the above verses ---so I went to Genesis and read the above verses and this is what I found .

 

Genesis 2 v 21 to 24    21So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23Then the man said,

   "This at last is bone of my bones
   and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
   because she was taken out of Man.

 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and--- they shall become one flesh.

 

This verse 24 says to me that the mother and the father are of one flesh and when a man leaves his mother and father and is joined with his wife --then--they shall become one flesh. 

 

So Eve was manifested from a rib of Adam's so Adam and Eve were of one flesh this makes perfect sense to me ---So we women and men when we join together in marriage or relationship are already equally yoked  in our Physical state as we women came to be from man . It is our Spiritual --Moral --and Intellectual part of the union that must be equally yoked to keep harmony and peace in the relationship .

 

Peace and Blessings ---- 

BornFree's picture

BornFree

image

unsafe wrote:

 

Hi revjohn and Born Free   ---Thanks for your input I appreciate your comments .

 

I was still not settled about the meaning of one flesh in this passage so I decided to pray and ask The Holy Spirit to give me the understanding and knowledge and guidance that would help me to better understand what this passage was about.

 

The Holy spirit told me the answer was in the above verses ---so I went to Genesis and read the above verses and this is what I found .

 

Genesis 2 v 21 to 24    21So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22And the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23Then the man said,

   "This at last is bone of my bones
   and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called Woman,
   because she was taken out of Man.

 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and--- they shall become one flesh.

 

This verse 24 says to me that the mother and the father are of one flesh and when a man leaves his mother and father and is joined with his wife --then--they shall become one flesh. 

 

So Eve was manifested from a rib of Adam's so Adam and Eve were of one flesh this makes perfect sense to me ---So we women and men when we join together in marriage or relationship are already equally yoked  in our Physical state as we women came to be from man . It is our Spiritual --Moral --and Intellectual part of the union that must be equally yoked to keep harmony and peace in the relationship .

 

Peace and Blessings ---- 

 

Yes, yes, yes. Asking the Holy Spirit is always number one for me. The bible tells us that He will help us interpret the scripture and He will never contradict it.

 

I've always looked at the Adam and Eve situation as Adam was not complete without his rib and Eve (being formed from it) completed the whole makeup. Hence "One"

 

The Holy Spirit can also be looked at as our "Completer"

 

:)

unsafe's picture

unsafe

image

 

Hi Born Free    Your Quote   ; Yes, yes, yes. Asking the Holy Spirit is always number one for me. The bible tells us that He will help us interpret the scripture and He will never contradict it.

 

You are so right The Holy Spirit has directed me many times in scripture and the revelation ones receives always makes perfect sense no condractions are persent. The Bible is very clear on this ---

 

 

John 14:26 (New International Version, ©2011)

26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 

 

We need to ask for help to understand.

 

Matthew 15 v 8 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.

 

Peace and Blessings

Back to Religion and Faith topics