rishi
The Meaning of "Jesus is Lord"
Posted on: 06/15/2009 12:30
Jesus is Lord of all creation and He came to save us. This is the message of the Apostolic Christian.
This is the one fundamental belief that I am talking about and the rest is all fluff.
I agree with IBelieve that "Jesus is Lord" is the heart of the Christian message. But we have different understandings of what it means.
What does it mean to you?
- Login or register to post comments
- Add new comment
Search
Comments
joshua keli
To me, I understand that
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:04
To me, I understand that "Jesus" is God manifested in human form. Jesus acts by nature alone, true human nature. A flawless image of the unnaffected human nature. Jesus (wether he walked the earth or not) teaches humans to live as their true selves. If we observe nature (the wild) we see the parrallels between it and God. It is flawless in all ways, we are nature, we come from nature, it is endlessly forgiving, it is beyond our comprehension and it is all mighty. Nature is God manifested in form, it is how we (as humans) percieve God. All that we sense is God, but form is merely an illusion. It is what Buddha calls Maya. If we find Jesus within us, (and he is in every one of us) we are essentially living by the will of God; by nature; by instinct. Through Jesus (our true self), we witness God, we ARE God.
Basically, since we are Jesus,
and Jesus is God (Lord),
we are God.
Josh
P.S Thanks for all the sweet topics!
ninjafaery
joshua keli You sure you
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:07
joshua keli
You sure you aren't a bodhisattva?
boltupright
joshua keli wrote: To me, I
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:12
To me, I understand that "Jesus" is God manifested in human form. Jesus acts by nature alone, true human nature. A flawless image of the unnaffected human nature. Jesus (wether he walked the earth or not) teaches humans to live as their true selves. If we observe nature (the wild) we see the parrallels between it and God. It is flawless in all ways, we are nature, we come from nature, it is endlessly forgiving, it is beyond our comprehension and it is all mighty. Nature is God manifested in form, it is how we (as humans) percieve God. All that we sense is God, but form is merely an illusion. It is what Buddha calls Maya. If we find Jesus within us, (and he is in every one of us) we are essentially living by the will of God; by nature; by instinct. Through Jesus (our true self), we witness God, we ARE God.
Basically, since we are Jesus,
and Jesus is God (Lord),
we are God.
Josh
P.S Thanks for all the sweet topics!
Ouch!
Bolt
rishi
Here in a nutshell is what it
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:28
Here in a nutshell is what it means to me on Monday, June 15th, 2009, 12:38 EST :
There are many religious visions in the Hebrew section of our bible. The visions that most interest me are the Messianic visions. I see a Messianic vision as a vision of the "ultimate" solution to the predicaments of human beings.
Jumping light years ahead to the Christian section of our bible, a simple rabbi named Jesus arises. He is very godly, so godly in fact that he is experienced by many as the embodiment of the ultimate reality we call "God". So, by these folks who experienced him in this way, Jesus is equally venerable, equally powerful, equally divine as God. For them, in brief, Jesus is Lord.
Again, the point for me of a messianic vision is to depict the "ultimate" solution to the predicaments of human beings.
And so, for me, to say that "Jesus is Lord" is symbolic code for saying: "the ultimate solution to the predicaments of human beings is our sanctification, our coming to increasingly embody the nature, the qualities, the mind, the heart of that Divine Mystery we call 'God.' "
But that's just a philosophical level of what "Jesus is Lord" means to me, which is important, but not the whole story. At a personal, experiential level, it means that I, in the concrete details of my little existence, am saying "yes" to that messianic vision, saying "yes" to that process of sanctification through which I can become progressively more and more like God.
I also suspect that this kind of personal apprehension of this messianic vision is not really possible without a real living sense of the "presence" of Jesus, mediated to us in our context by the testimonies of our spiritual ancestors (the authors of what we now consider to be scripture.) Otherwise, I suspect, the vision might stay at a philosophical level but may not be embody-
-able. (But that is not to say -- I repeat: not to say -- that the Mystery we call God has no other options... 
I'm just speaking here of how I understand the Jesus option.)
RussP
We are in God, and God is in
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:19
We are in God, and God is in us.
IT
Russ
joshua keli
boltupright wrote: joshua
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:22
To me, I understand that "Jesus" is God manifested in human form. Jesus acts by nature alone, true human nature. A flawless image of the unnaffected human nature. Jesus (wether he walked the earth or not) teaches humans to live as their true selves. If we observe nature (the wild) we see the parrallels between it and God. It is flawless in all ways, we are nature, we come from nature, it is endlessly forgiving, it is beyond our comprehension and it is all mighty. Nature is God manifested in form, it is how we (as humans) percieve God. All that we sense is God, but form is merely an illusion. It is what Buddha calls Maya. If we find Jesus within us, (and he is in every one of us) we are essentially living by the will of God; by nature; by instinct. Through Jesus (our true self), we witness God, we ARE God.
Basically, since we are Jesus,
and Jesus is God (Lord),
we are God.
Josh
P.S Thanks for all the sweet topics!
Ouch!
Bolt
I'm not sure what you mean by ouch :P
Josh
rishi
ninjafaery wrote: joshua
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:22
joshua keli
You sure you aren't a bodhisattva?
My bet is yes... have you noticed that golden color of his skin?
GordW
And of course we need to
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:23
And of course we need to remember the revolutionary power behind "Jesus is Lord". The early church used terms to describe Jesus that were generally reserved for Caesar (Lord, SOn of GOd) in pat to state who was really the focus of their loyalty.
I think we need to reclaim this vision of where our loyalty lies.
joshua keli
Well you could say I am a
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:25
Well you could say I am a Bodhisattva as much as I am Jesus
Either that or neither!
Josh
rishi
GordW wrote: And of course we
Posted on: 06/15/2009 13:31
And of course we need to remember the revolutionary power behind "Jesus is Lord". The early church used terms to describe Jesus that were generally reserved for Caesar (Lord, SOn of GOd) in pat to state who was really the focus of their loyalty.
I think we need to reclaim this vision of where our loyalty lies.
Kind of like saying we want a Black Lesbian as our Prime Minister?
boltupright
joshua keli
Posted on: 06/15/2009 14:16
To me, I understand that "Jesus" is God manifested in human form. Jesus acts by nature alone, true human nature. A flawless image of the unnaffected human nature. Jesus (wether he walked the earth or not) teaches humans to live as their true selves. If we observe nature (the wild) we see the parrallels between it and God. It is flawless in all ways, we are nature, we come from nature, it is endlessly forgiving, it is beyond our comprehension and it is all mighty. Nature is God manifested in form, it is how we (as humans) percieve God. All that we sense is God, but form is merely an illusion. It is what Buddha calls Maya. If we find Jesus within us, (and he is in every one of us) we are essentially living by the will of God; by nature; by instinct. Through Jesus (our true self), we witness God, we ARE God.
Basically, since we are Jesus,
and Jesus is God (Lord),
we are God.
Josh
P.S Thanks for all the sweet topics!
Ouch!
Bolt
I'm not sure what you mean by ouch :P
Josh
Hi Josh
You seem to me to be a very nice young man with good intentions.
What you wrote there is all nice & toasty warm, but the part where you say "we are God", burns me.
You will indeed find favor in these parts with your intelect, but understanding is another issue alltogether.
You are free to see it as you do, but I do have a different view however, thus for the reason for the term ouch, it burns.
Bolt
SG
As someone who used much
Posted on: 06/15/2009 14:22
As someone who used much Adonai language, (Shema yisrael adonai elohainu adonai ehad" and a ton of "baruch ata adonai...") I can tell you what it means to me. It was also something I used usually only in prayer and that preference to use only during prayer continues as a Christian. It is respect and the "my" aspect of the word, means to me respect and an intimacy inferred.
Adon means "lord" or "master" or "ruler" or "owner". Adonai makes it "my lord" or "my master". For me, there is a difference between adon and adonai. A person who has lordship over me = adon. They do not equal adonai, "my lord".
Adonai is a possessive. We can look at what we possess, what God possesses or what we permit ourselves to possess or to be posssessed by. It is not just about ownership and mastership. It means, to me, reverence and relationship. It means giving over the rights of lordship and possession. It implies trust to me.
For Hebrews, it mean HaShem was the Lord of their life.
I cannot say the Hebrew Scriptures (OT) apply Adonai or Lord to the the anointed one, the Messiah, the deliverer... even in messianic prophecy. Devarim 18 (Dueteronomy) says a prophet will HaShem raise up. Even in Yisheyah 7 (Isaiah) it is the L-rd giving the sign of the son. They are not interchangeable terms, the words Messiah and L-rd.
Some Christians who make Jesus the Lord of their life, give this authoirty to the one they see as the Messiah. Again, reverence and relationship. Jesus becomes their Lord.
It is not that way for all Christians. Christains who believe in the Trintity can lean less heavy or more heavy on any of the three. Some keep the three very separate. Some keep God as Lord and Jesus as Messiah.
Personally, I am consciously aware of not using L-rd to apply to Jesus or to mean HaShem and use Jesus or mean Jesus and say HaShem. I do not refer to Jesus as Lord or lord or use Jesus interchangeably with God. Perhaps because of the familiarity, the solemn nature and the importance Judaism places on the Adon Olam....
RussP
josh And I will add, yes,
Posted on: 06/15/2009 14:23
josh
And I will add, yes, we are God.
IT
Russ
boltupright
RussP wrote: josh And I
Posted on: 06/15/2009 14:27
josh
And I will add, yes, we are God.
IT
Russ
Ouch!
rishi
boltupright wrote: RussP
Posted on: 06/15/2009 15:18
josh
And I will add, yes, we are God.
IT
Russ
Ouch!
Now, now boys...
You know how the words "I love you" can mean different things to people depending on where they are at in life? For example, we intuitively 'get' the difference when two 13 year olds whose hormones are peaking say those words and when an older couple who have known richer and poorer, sickness and health, etc. for 50 years say them. I think the same is true with the words "We are God." They mean different things at different levels of spiritual maturity.
Also, believing something to be true doesn't mean that the believer actually experiences reality in that way. An example. When I was a monk in Sri Lanka I used to help tourist meditators that were visiting our local meditation center. Some, when I would meet them at the beginning of their stay, would be full of amazingly inspiring beliefs about how "we are all one" and "we are God" and yada yada yada. Invariably, after a few days spent in silent meditation (except for occasional talks with me), they became much clearer on the subtle distinction between things that they believed were true, or liked to believe were true, and their actual perceptions of themselves, others, and what they called "God." Often they would laugh at the kind of ego chatter they were spouting when they came in a few days earlier. Experience matters. Beliefs can be quite intoxicating, especially ones that place us in very high positions. Actual spiritual practice, when it's going well, is much more sobering. It makes us more simple, kind, humble, joyful, not more grandiose.
If you know that someone has a different, heart felt understanding of God, which makes it painful for them to hear assertions like "We are God," why not explain what you mean a bit more? Do you mean that you, and no one but you, created the universe and are in charge of it's destiny, solely because you are you? That might be how your assertion is being understood. And it may even feel like you're trying to hit them over the head with some kind of New Age bible.
boltupright
rishi wrote: boltupright
Posted on: 06/15/2009 15:36
josh
And I will add, yes, we are God.
IT
Russ
Ouch!
Now, now boys...
You know how the words "I love you" can mean different things to people depending on where they are at in life? For example, we intuitively 'get' the difference when two 13 year olds whose hormones are peaking say those words and when an older couple who have known richer and poorer, sickness and health, etc. for 50 years say them. I think the same is true with the words "We are God." They mean different things at different levels of spiritual maturity.
Also, believing something to be true doesn't mean that the believer actually experiences reality in that way. An example. When I was a monk in Sri Lanka I used to help tourist meditators that were visiting our local meditation center. Some, when I would meet them at the beginning of their stay, would be full of amazingly inspiring beliefs about how "we are all one" and "we are God" and yada yada yada. Invariably, after a few days spent in silent meditation (except for occasional talks with me), they became much clearer on the subtle distinction between things that they believed were true, or liked to believe were true, and their actual perceptions of themselves, others, and what they called "God." Often they would laugh at the kind of ego chatter they were spouting when they came in a few days earlier. Experience matters. Beliefs can be quite intoxicating, especially ones that place us in very high positions. Actual spiritual practice, when it's going well, is much more sobering. It makes us more simple, kind, humble, joyful, not more grandiose.
If you know that someone has a different, heart felt understanding of God, which makes it painful for them to hear assertions like "We are God," why not explain what you mean a bit more? Do you mean that you, and no one but you, created the universe and are in charge of it's destiny, solely because you are you? That might be how your assertion is being understood. And it may even feel like you're trying to hit them over the head with some kind of New Age bible.
I apreciate your peace making rishi, you are definately a skilled minister.
I'm not hurt in any way, it's just that I associate this term "we are God" as the same as what was used in the garden, shortly before the fall.
Also a term described as the reasoning behind the fall of one who supports this deception, before our fall. If you can understand my meaning.
It seems to creep out & bite in the midst of what is seen as paradise.
All the while it is nothing of the sort.
Bolt
boltupright
double post.
Posted on: 06/15/2009 15:39
double post.
rishi
StevieG wrote: Adonai is a
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:06
Adonai is a possessive. We can look at what we possess, what God possesses or what we permit ourselves to possess or to be posssessed by. It is not just about ownership and mastership. It means, to me, reverence and relationship. It means giving over the rights of lordship and possession. It implies trust to me.
This is beautiful, Stevie, thanks... Is it your sense that Adonai is only spoken from a position of surrender or the desire to be surrendered?
SG
Rishi, If the point is
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:23
Rishi,
If the point is relationship, that is accomplished differently for different people. Lets look at people. If one has trouble with trust or surrendering, then they flounder in relationship with someone who demands it or will not be patient in in being given. If one has trouble with getting too lofty, they flounder in relationship with those who easily surrender....
I also believe that God builds personal relationships and God is aware who we are and that in relationship we still bring our selves into it. God simply accept us where we are.
You asked for my sense, so I will give it... but again, I only speak for me. Trust and safety and letting someone care for me... they were hard things with humans. Adults around me were not trustworthy or safe due to mental illness, addiction, abuse.... My life needed safety, trust... a place the guard could come down, the chip come off the shoulder. God was that place. A soft comforting place. I would not say I surrendered. If God would have expressed surrender was required or I would have felt it was required, I may not have the relationship I have with God. I would say I trusted, believed.... God became "my God" without taking lordship, I gave it. The idea that respect means fear or that for God to be someone I must be nobody did not/does not work for me.
I would not say I surrendered, Yet, I was surrendering my shields, my walls, my barriers, my fears.... For me, God demanded nothing, I turned it over.
Surrender is not a big thing for me, but I understand it is for others.
seeler
Sometimes I find that I like
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:32
Sometimes I find that I like to think out my response to the original question and post my reply before reading through what other people think. This is one. So the question as I understand it: Jesus is Lord. What does that mean to you?
It is the earliest creed or statement of faith in the Bible. It is a political statement. Ceasar is lord - was the politically correct belief. Ceasar is ruler - Ceasar is lord. The people owed their loyalty and devoting to Ceasar.
So when a Christian said "Jesus is Lord", it was a political statement. A statement that I follow Jesus and not some earthly king. It puts Jesus above the king. It puts Jesus first.
So today when I say "Jesus is Lord" I mean that I follow Jesus, not the Canadian government, not Harper, not our prevailing culture, not our economic system, not our democracy. I follow Jesus who reveals to me the nature of God and what it means to be loved by God and to respond by loving God and loving others.
This belief comes first for me - above all the values I find in society, however good they may be.
joshua keli
seeler wrote: Sometimes I
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:36
Sometimes I find that I like to think out my response to the original question and post my reply before reading through what other people think. This is one. So the question as I understand it: Jesus is Lord. What does that mean to you?
It is the earliest creed or statement of faith in the Bible. It is a political statement. Ceasar is lord - was the politically correct belief. Ceasar is ruler - Ceasar is lord. The people owed their loyalty and devoting to Ceasar.
So when a Christian said "Jesus is Lord", it was a political statement. A statement that I follow Jesus and not some earthly king. It puts Jesus above the king. It puts Jesus first.
So today when I say "Jesus is Lord" I mean that I follow Jesus, not the Canadian government, not Harper, not our prevailing culture, not our economic system, not our democracy. I follow Jesus who reveals to me the nature of God and what it means to be loved by God and to respond by loving God and loving others.
This belief comes first for me - above all the values I find in society, however good they may be.
Nicely said seeler I agree with you
Arminius
To me, "Jesus is Lord" is a
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:41
To me, "Jesus is Lord" is a profound metaphor, alluding to the unitive consciousness or Christ consciousness that Jesus (among others) brought us.
To my mind, Christ consciousness or unitive consciousness is the greatest thing we can possibly strive for. The attainment of unitive consciousness is, or ought to be, the ultimate aim of every human being and every religion.
seeler
Having read through the
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:41
Having read through the thread I believe that my understanding of the statement most closely matches that of GordW.
I do not interpret "Jesus is Lord" as meaning the same as "Jesus is God". In this instance I don't take the words "Lord" and "God" to mean the same thing.
seeler
Joshua - I was posting at the
Posted on: 06/15/2009 16:42
Joshua - I was posting at the same time as your most recent post.
rishi
StevieG wrote: My life needed
Posted on: 06/15/2009 17:12
My life needed safety, trust... a place the guard could come down, the chip come off the shoulder. God was that place. A soft comforting place. I would not say I surrendered.
Language breaks down here, I think, maybe because it's so close to the heart of things. What I call 'surrender' I experience as the other side of 'trust'. I experience it as a kind of non-action. I can't just 'do' surrender. It's something that happens when trust is very deep. No trust, no surrender. Just like if there's no safety there's no real trust. And if there's no healthy love, there's no real safety. It's like a living cascade. They can't be separated out from one another in real life. Maybe the Adonai experience is the whole cascade.
SG
Unlike seeler, What "Jesus is
Posted on: 06/15/2009 17:15
Unlike seeler, What "Jesus is Lord" means to me was not something I could really answer. It means nothing to me, I hear others do it and it holds no meaning to me. I understadn it means something , often something very powerful, to them. Yet, it means nothing to me.
The comments on Lord making Jesus where the loyalty lie, make sense whether it is ancients or currently when I hear others do it. It simply is not for me.
It still means nothing to me, personally. God is my Lord, the One and not the religious beliefs that flowed out of that, the prophets, messengers, denominataions, etc...
I may have felt differently about it and saw the claiming of power in language had I lived and worshipped at the time of Roman occupation, the time of Caesar.... as either a Christian or a Jew. I may have felt differently about the language immediately after the death of Jesus. I do not know. I also do not know that politically I may have felt "Jesus is Lord" was more insult to God than insult to Caesar or compliemnt to Christianity. Like I said, I do not know. I may also have felt differently had I not been a Jew first. I do not know. I have been teased that my Jewishness shows.
I know that today it holds no meaning for me. The word Lord does and holds powerful meaning, but not "Jesus is Lord" other than I follow from choice. Yet, I cannot see myself using Lord.
I understand the loyalty expressed, but again that does not speak to me.
Like I said, my loyalty is to God first, not to Christianity or whatever religion or religious theory flows out of that belief in God...
SG
rishi, Yes, language does
Posted on: 06/15/2009 17:21
rishi,
Yes, language does break down. Surrender for me is acceptance/agreement if it has positive connotation or active participation. As it relates to God I would say complete and absolute acceptance and release.... not God taking, or even a word like relinquishing with its connotations, but release.
It is often easier for me to say what I don't believe or don't mean than what I do believ or do mean. The problem of words and the weight they bear.
rishi
seeler wrote: Sometimes I
Posted on: 06/15/2009 17:26
Sometimes I find that I like to think out my response to the original question and post my reply before reading through what other people think. This is one. So the question as I understand it: Jesus is Lord. What does that mean to you?
It is the earliest creed or statement of faith in the Bible. It is a political statement. Ceasar is lord - was the politically correct belief. Ceasar is ruler - Ceasar is lord. The people owed their loyalty and devoting to Ceasar.
So when a Christian said "Jesus is Lord", it was a political statement. A statement that I follow Jesus and not some earthly king. It puts Jesus above the king. It puts Jesus first.
So today when I say "Jesus is Lord" I mean that I follow Jesus, not the Canadian government, not Harper, not our prevailing culture, not our economic system, not our democracy. I follow Jesus who reveals to me the nature of God and what it means to be loved by God and to respond by loving God and loving others.
This belief comes first for me - above all the values I find in society, however good they may be.
The way you express this is really great, because (I imagine) most Christians could easily be 'on board' with this. And yet it's far from 'wishy washy.' It's both very open and very committed. It seems to me that it would allow people to have very different views of who Jesus is, yet share the fact that they are genuine devotees. Maybe the last line would pose problems for some... because, as I read it, it brings in a kind of transcendental quality, the value above all values. It would work for me, though.
rishi
StevieG wrote: As it relates
Posted on: 06/15/2009 17:47
As it relates to God I would say complete and absolute acceptance and release.... not God taking, or even a word like relinquishing with its connotations, but release.
Actually, "release" works even better for me than 'surrender' as a way of describing it, because, within it, I lose my need to grab onto things to defend myself.
God is the One with whom I have no need to defend myself. This is actually a much more powerful description for me than "God is Love" because it starts to say more concretely how that love acts in relation to me.
"Disarming" might be another.
rishi
GordW wrote: And of course we
Posted on: 06/15/2009 19:33
And of course we need to remember the revolutionary power behind "Jesus is Lord". The early church used terms to describe Jesus that were generally reserved for Caesar (Lord, SOn of GOd) in pat to state who was really the focus of their loyalty.
I think we need to reclaim this vision of where our loyalty lies.
Gord, do you see in "Jesus is Lord" a clear position on how marginalized persons are treated in society? If so, what is it?
joshua keli
Perhaps without any
Posted on: 06/15/2009 21:27
Perhaps without any technicality behind the words, Jesus is the first and foremost "part" of us we should "follow", better yet the only part- he is God manifested; the only truth. Jesus goes above and beyond all man made rule, only HE is lord. Only through him can we experience God. (only through our true self can we experience God)
Panentheist
joshua keli wrote: To me, I
Posted on: 06/16/2009 07:18
To me, I understand that "Jesus" is God manifested in human form. Jesus acts by nature alone, true human nature. A flawless image of the unnaffected human nature. Jesus (wether he walked the earth or not) teaches humans to live as their true selves. If we observe nature (the wild) we see the parrallels between it and God. It is flawless in all ways, we are nature, we come from nature, it is endlessly forgiving, it is beyond our comprehension and it is all mighty. Nature is God manifested in form, it is how we (as humans) percieve God. All that we sense is God, but form is merely an illusion. It is what Buddha calls Maya. If we find Jesus within us, (and he is in every one of us) we are essentially living by the will of God; by nature; by instinct. Through Jesus (our true self), we witness God, we ARE God.
Basically, since we are Jesus,
and Jesus is God (Lord),
we are God.
Josh
P.S Thanks for all the sweet topics!
Ah, another Panentheist! <;-}
GordW
rishi wrote: GordW wrote: And
Posted on: 06/16/2009 09:13
And of course we need to remember the revolutionary power behind "Jesus is Lord". The early church used terms to describe Jesus that were generally reserved for Caesar (Lord, SOn of GOd) in pat to state who was really the focus of their loyalty.
I think we need to reclaim this vision of where our loyalty lies.
Gord, do you see in "Jesus is Lord" a clear position on how marginalized persons are treated in society? If so, what is it?
A clear position? Not really. One can claim loyalty to the Godhead and still ignore the marginalized. One can deny the existence of the Godhead and be an ardent advocate for the marginalized. Especially once the role of Christian moved from being marginalized to being at the center.
seeler
But Gord - the creed Jesus is
Posted on: 06/16/2009 11:30
But Gord - the creed Jesus is Lord was very early in the Christian movement - perhaps even preceeded it. Jesus is Lord meant following Jesus, his teachings, his life. His life was lived among the marginalized. He supported food for the hungry, water for the thirsty. He ate with the marginalized, the unclean, the outsiders. He even came to understand that the kingdom of God was for Gentiles as well as Jews. I definitely think that the claim "Jesus is Lord" was political and was revolutionary. Perhaps not inciting the people to revolt - but encouraging them to see God in even the least of one another, just as they saw the Spirit of God in him. To me, Jesus is Lord is a very powerful statement.
qwerty
Wow this puts a whole new
Posted on: 06/22/2009 11:42
Wow this puts a whole new spin on things for me. Every time I ever heard anybody use the expression which is our subject, I always thought they were saying "Jesus is lowered".
RussP
seeler Very much a
Posted on: 06/22/2009 12:30
seeler
Very much a revolutionary. A thorn in the side of the ruling Romans, and the "happy as we are" Jewish religious leaders.
And like the Oscar Romeros of the world, he was done in for it.
IT
Russ
Arminius
qwerty wrote: Wow this puts a
Posted on: 06/22/2009 12:39
Wow this puts a whole new spin on things for me. Every time I ever heard anybody use the expression which is our subject, I always thought they were saying "Jesus is lowered".
Hi qwerty: That's what you get from listening to these Southern Evangelists!