graeme
military chaplains
Posted on: 12/16/2011 13:48
Obama will soon sign into law a new measure which authorizes the US military to kidnap and detain indefinitely any person (American citizen or other, in the US or outside it) who it considers a threat to American security. The threat is so vaguely defined, it could mean anything, including even normal criticism of the government. There will be no need for charge, trial, lawyers - just the opinion of somebody in the military.
Under law, the US becomes part of the battlefeid against terrorism - which is also undefined. Anybody can be arrested for no reason at all. Human rights cease to exist. This is the American Revolution in reverse. In fact, Americans had more rights as colonists than they will under this law.
One might also remember three things:
1; We have signed a deal allowing American agents to carry out policing duties in Canada.
2. As part of the harmonization of border control measures, Canada will be under pressure to adopt a similar law. Harper is not likely to resist.
That's it. the police state. martial law. no holds barred. If you think I exaggerate, check The Guardian for Dec. 15. Check the American Civil Liberties Union.
3. We know the American army routinely uses torture against those detained - even those held in military prisons in the US. (A American now has been held for over a year in solitary confinement, and treated to being wakened every half hour if he falls asleep. The US has refused to allow UN officials to visit him.
Now - will American chaplains be assigned to provide Christian comfort to the military who carry out these assignments?
And - as an afterthought - were Canadian chaplains unaware of the treatment of prisoners handed over to the US in Pakistan. It's been well known here for some considerable time. But I haven't heard much from the church.
A public hearing has recently confirmed that prisoners handed over to the Afghanistan government were being murdered. Do our chaplains read the news?
The decision of the Canadian government has been to insist that all prisoners taken by Canadians whould be handed over to the US. Gee! That should make everybody feel better.
The church, in general, has not paid a whole lot of attention to the treatment of prisoners - though it is not possible to believe that our churches - and certainly our chaplains - have not been aware of it - and long before it made the news.
That does not give confidence that there will be any adequate response from American or Canadian churches over these most recent development.
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MikePaterson
The "Shared Vision for
Posted on: 12/16/2011 14:10
The "Shared Vision for Perimeter Security and Economic Competitiveness Action Plan" may not be a "shock and awe" deal — after all, we're "allies" — but it will be a far more effective takeover than, say, Iraq. It will be a little more gradualist in all sorts of ways — but Canada's resources will determine the thoroughness and severity of the takeover, depending on the United States' continued capacities to wield economic (as opposed to simply military) power.
Allowing foreign (U.S.) police to exercise ANY powers in Canada is a very worrying step. Given an inch, we'll see them go for the full nine yards if not the mile. That will depend on the Canadian government's complaisance and/or acttive co-operation.
I rather fear that our chaplains, Graeme, and our churches — by and large and in the end — will gain a clearer sense of which side their toast's buttered and the costs of "subversion", "dissidence", "sedition" and, ultimately, "treason"... and who wants to actually die like Jesus?
You're talking about all sorts of slippery slopes, Graeme.
sighsnootles
i am still gobsmacked that
Posted on: 12/16/2011 14:19
i am still gobsmacked that the senate passed this bill with so LITTLE outcry from the american public. they seem perfectly content with having their human rights stripped away.
as much as i supported the 'occupy wall street' thing, i have to wonder if it didn't inadvertently allow this bill to get through without any ado?? you know, people were so focused on the protest and the pepper spray...
Alex
Will those arrested have
Posted on: 12/16/2011 14:47
Will those arrested have timely access to a lawyer, or to contact someone. Or can someone just disappear (be detained for an indeterminate ammount of time)?
GordW
Alex wrote: Will those
Posted on: 12/16/2011 17:08
Will those arrested have timely access to a lawyer, or to contact someone. Or can someone just disappear (be detained for an indeterminate ammount of time)?
Officially or practically? In practice at least it is the latter already.
graeme
It's such a stunning and
Posted on: 12/16/2011 19:55
It's such a stunning and profound change in the whole basis of American society that it's hard to grasp just how big it really is. It's a denial of everything the US has claimed to stand for since 1776.
Canadian corporations (and, thus, Harper) will embrace it. They have staked their all on unification with the US.
graeme
I t hink it's also and
Posted on: 12/16/2011 19:56
I t hink it's also and profoundly a moral issue. Our treatment of each other goes to the core of the Christian message.
WaterBuoy
Is terrorism and explicit or
Posted on: 12/17/2011 08:33
Is terrorism and explicit or implicit thing that a medium can only observe from outside the ring of war (caused mostly by adverse beliefs to a freedom of religion law)?
Where would the medium stand in such de deux'd position .... beyond it all? No wonder Christ stepped into his garden to meditate .... the cultivated section being out-of-here as imaginary space. But ya'd have to regret leaving the place in such a Maas as created by mire (dusty) gods ... down to earth daemons ... lessor gods?
There has too be another side, this terrorism wisdom is just beyond me ... Moses cast heis hand over the see and it raged ... couldn't come together in Pis ... outside the infinite Circe ... chaos of 2 typos! Perhaps just at the fringe ... Wahl effects of great laughter ... inside/outside joker? Look at does bugah's Ego'n at it ...
You did know the Carob Beedle was a chi-ite bug ... learns to thrive on this crap ... may be all that's left after human roués over ... could we smarten up?
History says no, as an Ego that is prone to bounce and fails all tests of reflection ... contemplative power is ouda Eire ...
WaterBuoy
Just a'priori to de athe of
Posted on: 12/17/2011 10:06
Just a'priori to de athe of emotions ... wisdom rises with IT's ugly head in a Romantic Realm without Th'O, Romans got their emotions mixed:
Fear, anger, curiosity, joie, occult (visionary) and decisional forces!
Inside this a sept-IC view, toxic to Joie's floatin beyond ... a sue'realistic stinker:
Verily animated in pneu Maas ... ruagh floes ...
Chi Ai’n St Och ‘n …
Erratic breath, like feeding af Tiyr with bits, latent lye …
Parallel function of the mine when contained as’n 2/4 time …
The dance lost when in time, less dimension, 100 …
As 1, emotional eh; de frocked or frac đead (chiead)!
When in the embrace of emotions …
The timed differential nature of th’O …
Is just beyond us, despised as myth …
We don’t like the incident, inertia …
Inner sham Anne, to the hilt, Toby Goan!
But Tæ, word, couldn’t conn tæ nite, as lye in …
So the gravid bit flew, wit, divers …
White Dove down biyah Nihilism …
Thus providing the transcription of Nilil/Nelle …
Anne eL; anneal, alloy something overhead, friable …
That’s heaven in re course, form of Canan …
When it went off like a dream …
And chi conceived, it was good …
Something will come of nothing that they feared …
When entering sacred space, abstract …
Anne unknown aperture?
Agape that could come back at ſ(heh) …
As much expanded upon …
Like de void of mind as received …
Must be fulfilled as filleted …
Иephesh, close aromatic therapy …
That alters future thought about injuries and folk up in heavenly dimensions …
Their falling aboot ſ(haw) …
Иeh lear IO ‘US Ais …
As western nation thinking they are in control, Ephraim danon sense …
When they don’t know the basis of V’ ET nam …
Was bred of the unknow ıη ηuit, de nous ‘V dark Ness …
As sacred bred, for desire san alter-Иate thought …
Have I indicated how little Wii Know; opposing alternates?
Host isles collective philosophy on socialism …
The desire of knowledge and wisdom of accrued Th’aught …
As Theo that was feasting while out-of-here!
Perhaps silently Di Gest in!
Populated, eM in Ji’ИΓation?
Unknown drawing board of spin (due delles) …
Where absolutes are sketchy yet ıſ …
Kol latently sentient …
Arrival of the pathos logical unguent …
Balm of the Reuben …
Mire string of change!
If you can follow the evolution of word …
You determine God is not institutional but out there …
Intellectually stretched asi ηouther image …
Needing desire to go on …
The emotional plank t’ff Goan …
Thus the hajji, or odd ÿ çi, as divine çi …
As you conjure and receive conjunction …
Of ESS Tar’s …
Drift and fall …
Time when the bottom fell out of parse, précis lye, ID’ll gnaw for a time as daemon, Shadow, source of Ire ID!
DKS
graeme wrote: Now - will
Posted on: 12/17/2011 12:06
Now - will American chaplains be assigned to provide Christian comfort to the military who carry out these assignments?
If requested, yes.
That's because it's not a church issue but an issue for chaplains who are under the authority of the Chaplain General and the chain of command. You may recall a few years ago several Canadian Forces chaplains reported child abuse and supported CF members in their attempts to raise the issue publicly.
http://www.ceasefire.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/media-dossier-child-abuse-in-afghanistan.pdf
blackbelt
i wish more people would
Posted on: 12/17/2011 12:41
i wish more people would wake up to what's truly going on, the U.S is a cooperation, the federal reserve is not federal its a front, trilateral commission, UN, Buliderberg Grp, all jokes, Obama a puppet, for the Globalists, Terrorism ? omg what a joke , red flag operations.
Better not speak up against it though you will be listed by National security , Ron Paul wont make it, they will take him out like JFK
wake up
graeme
Amazing how few chaplains
Posted on: 12/17/2011 16:30
Amazing how few chaplains ever get disciplined by the "chain of command". They don't have to be.
They never reported the torture in Afghanistan or at Guantanamo bay - just as German chaplains never exposed the death camps.
If they are told to provide comfort to the torturers then, as DKS so correctly points out, they will.
graeme
I'm so happy they once
Posted on: 12/17/2011 16:33
I'm so happy they once reported cases of child abuse. Did that include child-soldiers who were tortured? Did it include the many NATO troops implicated in wanton murder of civilians and of rape?
Funny thing. In all the terrible wars of the twentieth century, in the brutal conquests of Africa and Asia that preceded, in the slaughter of native peoples, I can't think of a single chaplain who brought public attention to any of it.
DKS
graeme wrote: Amazing how
Posted on: 12/17/2011 21:00
Amazing how few chaplains ever get disciplined by the "chain of command". They don't have to be.
They never reported the torture in Afghanistan or at Guantanamo bay - just as German chaplains never exposed the death camps.
If they are told to provide comfort to the torturers then, as DKS so correctly points out, they will.
And how would you know what happens in the chain of command? Frankly, you just proved you know absolutely nothing about the role of a Canadian Forces chaplain.
DKS
graeme wrote: I'm so happy
Posted on: 12/17/2011 21:03
I'm so happy they once reported cases of child abuse. Did that include child-soldiers who were tortured? Did it include the many NATO troops implicated in wanton murder of civilians and of rape?
Funny thing. In all the terrible wars of the twentieth century, in the brutal conquests of Africa and Asia that preceded, in the slaughter of native peoples, I can't think of a single chaplain who brought public attention to any of it.
I suggest you do a little reading. Better still, talk to a CF chaplain on active duty. CF chaplains have only existed since WW2. Again you have proved your complete lack of knowledge on the subject.
graeme
1. there were chaplains with
Posted on: 12/17/2011 22:43
1. there were chaplains with the forces in WW1 - though they were not then tied into the chain of command.
2. I understand the chain of command quite well. Generals and governments prefer to control response to the war. That's why they now "embed' journalists - to make sure journalists say only what the generals wants them to say. In effect, they now do the same with chaplains.
It's unethical for journalists to accept those conditions - though journalists do. ditto for chaplains.
3. When I spoke of history, I was referring to chaplains all over the western world forthe last several centuries. The American army had chaplains when it was slaughtering Indians. The British had chaplains with them when they tried out the new maxim machine gun in the Sudan. They were with the Belgian troops who massacred the people of the Congo, with the British who forced China to buy opium.
4. I'm glad to hear that you know all about the role of a CF chaplain. Perhaps you would be good enough to enlighten us as to the role of a Christian.
5. You remind me of the only clergyman that Rommel respected. He was a chaplain who jjoined in the fighting to help out with the artillery. A Christian gentleman. After Pearl Harbour, there was a very popular song about chaplains joining in the fighting. It was called "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition".
6. Chaplains should certainly be in a chain of command. I just don't think a general should be at the top of that chain.
7. But you haven't satisfactorily answered my initial question. I asked whether, in light of new American legislation permitting the military detention of citizens with no charge or trial or lawyer, and the fact that this would also expose the detained to torture - whether chaplains would be called for to comfort the torturers.
A useful answer would have been yes or no. I willingly accept my intellectual inferiority to you. Now - could you please answer the question?
MikePaterson
DKS: My father's dad, a Free
Posted on: 12/17/2011 23:26
DKS: My father's dad, a Free Church of Scotland minister, was a First World War Chaplain (unless he was sent home after a gassing).
WaterBuoy
All is fair in war and love
Posted on: 12/18/2011 08:08
All is fair in war and love ...
God being love, is this an arguement for behaving like yah don't know nut in?
Sort of points to the other side of possession, what the higher power love to control ... take possession of! Then if a commoner shows anything outstanding in knowing of what's oppressed ... the powers can declare that being ... dis possessed ... excommunicato? Puts a whole different light on The Exorcist (as satire) cutting out possession so it is only in the hands of the higher powers while the lower portions know ... the devil as a mental case ... thinking?
It Sah har dcase to crack, if you try they call you crazy ... contrary to their rule book ... Matthew 5:21 ... and in the sense of eternal conflict (that churning within) shall they see the pyres of 'elle ... great mother of God dijah see that one go by? Denied Light .. that's covenant ... the blanket case of institutional awe! Something to back away from as recessive Jinn in warped space? Suggests a well-wound sole of depth ... pro phun ditty. Outside case ... p'un ...
No wonder there is that cool Freudian sense of sewercide in man, a thinking source woud like egress. Why Webster says that intellect is beyond the hue m'n will m'n being invisible in the Greek tongue (uv?) bury the light of man as something will come ovite ... just in the Nick of time ... a way out! Did anyone take head in ... turtling?
graeme
Canadian chaplains were also
Posted on: 12/18/2011 09:55
Canadian chaplains were also in the chain of command during WW2. As a teenager, I was often at the home of Rev. DeWitt Scott, a senior chaplain. He had been assigned the rank of colonel when he entered the service.
One of the most popular chaplains of World War 1 (damned if I can remember his name, though it's quite famous) was from Quebec. I rememver once using some of his papers for research. I was struck by his enthusiasm for war. The sound of an artillery barrage, he said, lifted his spirits because it sounded so much like a church organ.
Alex
This video displays Chaplains
Posted on: 12/18/2011 15:42
This video displays Chaplains as they help US. soldiers maintain there will to kill. It makes no bones about it.
The person who posted the video, more or less says that being a Christian means we must kill (fight wars)
graeme
Onward, Christian
Posted on: 12/18/2011 16:53
Onward, Christian soldiers...
That's what Chritianity is all about. But tt's only fanatical when Moslems do it.
I am reminded of a statement by the head of the WCTU (Canada) in 1914, "God is our commander-in-chief."
graeme
Onward, Christian
Posted on: 12/18/2011 16:53
Onward, Christian soldiers...
That's what Chritianity is all about. But tt's only fanatical when Moslems do it.
I am reminded of a statement by the head of the WCTU (Canada) in 1914, "God is our commander-in-chief."