Dammit, Bolt.  If you go to a UCC service, then everyone will expect me to go as well.

Actually, it's not a bad idea.  One blog I follow is The Friendly Atheist by Hemant Mehta - an author and teacher.  He has visited a couple of churches in his area, and had public discussions with the pastors.  No church has let him speak alone to their congregation yet.

I know I'm not as versed as Mr. Mehta, but if I were, that is the sort of church visit I would be most interested in - one where I could present information to the congregation from the atheists side, and engage the reverend on topics.  On those few occasions when I've been force to sit on a hard bench looking at stained glass and expected not to contribute or comment at all, I've felt like I was in a prison being tortured by atrocious songs, hilariously absurd storytelling, and bad logic.

To be fair, I've only been in Catholic and Anglican churches for weddings, funerals, and baptisms.  Maybe a UCC church would feel less like Guantanamo Bay, and more like a timeshare sales presentation to me.  I would have to attend one of each to compare.

That's just it - I would go, but only if given the opportunity to speak to the congregation, or through an open dialogue with the reverend and congregation.  Problem is, I'm not prepared for either, I don't know when I would be, and it would take some work just to get an invitation, as I don't think any church would extend such an offer unless I had a track record of being able to make such a visit meaningful.  It's something I would have to work up towards, and it's not like I have the time to devote to that side of my life.  WC takes up enough time as it is.

chansen,

I am not sure that a church woudl invite you to have a dialogue/debate as a sunday sermon but i am sure many would offer it as  an evenign discussion group.

Our church has had jewish scholars, islamic scholars, catholic scholars all come.  I have attended a bible study led by a jewish rabbi.

I think you could easily contact your neighbourhood UCC and talk to the minister about a discussion group or just a one evening debate.  Don't expect immediate dates though, I know our minister gets booked up months in advance.

he is very open, fantastically verse.  If you want his phone number to contact him, wondermail me.

North-east GTA.

And I'm entirely capable of raising otherwise un-raisable eyebrows.

Then I would invite you to West Hill United - although if your posts on WC are representative of your worldview, I can't see too many people raising many eyebrows.  Tell me what it is that you perceive would create waves?...cms

Richard - I appreciate that, but I won't be on the left coast for a while.  My kids are 2.5 years and 4 weeks old, and I figure we'll hit Whistler or some other BC resort when the youngest is about 5 and should be able to ski almost the whole mountain.

cjms - you're probably right.  I was more interested in turning a phrase there.

Not until you try to frame it within old dogmas, for no apparent reason other than to hold on to some form of that old belief, like a child who doesn't want to let go of his old security blanket.

As for the format of such a hypothetical meeting, no, I don't envision it like a Hitchens-esque debate, though I find them wonderfully entertaining.  I might be able to do that format justice, but then I would have to find a more conservative church, and the risk of lynching would make that less appealing.  As I've noted here before, atheists and UCC'ers have much we agree on.  Too much to make a debate work.

The idea of a visit and discussion about those areas of agreement and disagreement, was worth mulling over, but the obstacles (time, preparation and finding a congregation that wants me, but doesn't want me dead) make it unfeasible, unless I were to make it my primary hobby.  I like my sports too much.

I've offered you the last item, I doubt that the 2nd item would be much of an issue however I cannot do anything about your time constraints.  You might be surprised if you tried it out...cms

You might find this of interest:

http://theformerfundie.wordpress.com/

And to Bolt - I'm glad that you found something of interest in your visit!

Hey Chansen, we'd love to have you at our Wednesday night service (immersⁿ) to talk about atheism.  We're out in Oakville.  It would have to be more a discussion than a sermon (we like participating), but I know we would really appreciate having someone represent a topic we know little about.

Your second statement, and I commend you for making it, is the crux of the issue. Weddings, funerals, and baptisms - in any church - are among the most ritualistic events in the life of the congregation. Having no experience of any congregational life (if that's what you're saying), and saying you would only go if you could deliver the message (speak to the congregation), is rather like a Christian missionary going to Japan and immediately jumping up on a strret corner to tell them why co-ed bathing is a sign of the devil.

A debate, on the other hand (debate, not argument), would be a much more informative exercise, since you would be defending a position you know well, not trying to tell others why they're deluded for holding their own.

I've expressed the same sentiment on occasion. I would very much be interested in debating, from a progressive/liberal Christian point of view, an atheist. The only such encounters I've seen, like the one we talked about in England with the Anglican guy and some author or other if I recall correctly, , a while back, are rigged from the start.

Maybe you and I should do something on a Skype linkup hansen. We could see if Aaron would moderate, and do some publicity for WC around it. For that matter, I'm only a couple hours out of TO, and have spoken at Pathways in Unionville a couple of times. Maybe one of the folks who've invited you would be interested in setting us up for a live event.

Whaddya think? You up for it?

David

hah, you know, we are a warm fuzzy group of people aren't we?

So glad that the experience was good bolt, and hope your stay in vancouver is going well.  thinkin' of you and your hopes & dreams..

chansen...way to remind us of that 4-week old..i had forgotten...seems like you have lots of invites, from the east coast to the west and parts inbetween...

bolt

congratulations.  BTW I will respond to your e.  I've just not had time.

Shalom

Mate

Bolt, by all means be impressed by the show of and similarities on display. That surely is of God. In the meantime, watch the news and read your newspapers. Those are telling a story of murder and mayhem among the faith groups, including in India, Indonesia, Sri Lanka and many others in Africa, Central America and etc.

Face it, we (and they) are all human beings, and as things stand most of us, and them, are territorial in their thinking and actions.

Our job, as long as we have beath and compassion is to be there when a helping hand is needed.

I think you're being a little paranoid Chansen.

Why just the other day the local baptist church here invited us Witches over for a BBQ...

Hi chansen:

We are having a wonderCafe-live! every first and third Friday of each month. If you ever get to to Okanagan, come to lovely li'll Lumby and I book you for a presentation on atheism.

I am a self-described "spiritual atheist" or "Christian atheist," although some Christians say that this is a misuse of language. Apart from being very involved in our wonderCafe.live! and wonderQuest programs, I sit on our Church Board and our Christian Formation Committee. Atheists definitely are welcome in our church and encouraged to express their point of view. 

lol...good point.