I don't know about the internmediaries but I read once about prayer in general  being structured into the acronym "ACTS"

Adoration

Confession

Thanksgiving 

Supplication.

another friend said there were three types of prayer:  Thank you thank you thank you, help me help me help me, and WOW. ( I thought it was kinda cute myself.)

Scripture says we can all come boldly to the throne of God. No confessional priest needed but confessing our sins to each other is vital.  Keeps us accountable amongst each other.  

As for praying in Jesus' name, scripture says that "those who ask the Father in My name shall recieve". Call it leverage if you will?

No, we don't need intermediaries.  The RC and Orthodox churches teach that divinity is without the human "soul" and we can only seek redemption through appealing to God through God/Jesus. This is not only fallacy it is utterly just superstition.

People work very hard to earn a title.

What did that other poster do to get him/herself called "Jesus"?

I'd hardly call the Guidelines of Conduct a code of ethics.  This is the only place I've seen "Jesus" post - is it really that big of a deal?

The non-use of "rev" and other titles is a suggestion, not a requirement.

"Users may want to" is a pretty key phrase in regard to the use of titles in usernames.

"Jesus" hasn't posted here in over two years.  He posts one heart and we're wailing on him with the guidelines?

When praying personally I don't think I often use the phrase 'In Jesus' name".  In fact I think that often my personal prayers are variations of:  "Thank you, thank you, thank you."  "Help me, help me, help me."  and WOW!  

But when leading prayer in church worship, or in any gathering, I often close my prayer 'In Jesus' Name".  I hadn't thought much about it except that it helps the congregation to know when to say Amen, open their eyes, and look up.  But I think it may also be a uniting factor when we are praying together in Jesus' name.  It may also be a way of identifying ourselves as Christians.  And yes, it is following the scripture directive to ask in Jesus' name.

It doesn't matter as long as you do pray.

 Or, 'whatever blows your hair back'.

(sorry, my favorite saying  )

Meditating with repeated words has the same calming result. It even works for medical appointments when something uncomfortable is happening.   

It's the same idea as the Buddhist or Hindu mantra: a phrase or a word or a whole prayer (like the Hail Mary or Our Father) that is repeated over and over again serves as a "container" in which to carry or temporarily place your concerns or question or waiting or petition.  It's not that different from singing - where it isn't so much about the words but about the melody and emotion is ellicites in you as you sing. 

I've practiced Christian contemplative prayer (which I don't find different from mediation as taught in Buddhist traditions), and whenever I would drift off into some far off thought my mind would automatically bring me back by starting to recite the Hail Mary!  Seeing as I spent much (if not all!) of my prayer life until my mid-20's as a RC (practicing or not), it's just part of my make-up now! 

And it really does not matter what the words are because it is the intention and feeling and the calm associated with the practice that is doing the work.

When the Hail Mary doesn't work for me (and nowadays it often does not because I'm way too rational and considering every word I say, silly me), I repeat the phrase "Maranatha", which means "Come lord Jesus".  Again, it's soothing, it's like calling on a Beloved to come and help me carry a burden or to listen to my sorrow...

Anyway, some ideas for you.

Blessings,

Nishy

Greetings!

Sometimes "help me, help me, help me" is all one can utter.

Most of my prayer is just conversation/talking with God.

Hope, peace, joy, love ...

I have always understood that JESUS is our intermediary and no other is needed. This of the the tearing of the curtain in the New Testament. The "curtain" in question was several inches think of heavy cloth and many yards long. I forget if it was the crucifixion or the ascension that it flat out ripped in two. This is symbolic of nothing and no one coming between us and GOD. Also "The Lord's Prayer" is a good example for us. I've also heard it called "The Model Prayer" because it's not something we are supposed to recite word for word, it's more of an example, a guideline for prayer, not a recitation. We praise and honor GOD. We respect HIS will. We ask for forgiveness. We promise to forgive others. We offer thanks. We ask for what's important to us. The disciples wanted to know how to pray, not just learn one single prayer.

You know, Seeler, you can write your very own mantra/prayer! 

AND you can even get a simple rosary (much less complex than the RC variety):  there are the prayer beads Buddhists use which can be found in all new agey book stores, and there is also an Anglican Rosary which you can find on-line...  These comes with some wonderful prayers, too. 

I would really recommend practicing a prayer like this in non-stressful times in order to cultivate the practice and to gather some positive momentum behind the words, whatever words you use, so that when a time of stress comes your way saying the prayer can calm you by reminding you that God is present regardless of what's going on around you.

One can also ask,ordained by whom? Ordained by God?  Ordained by man?

For someone to put "rev" in front of their name to show they are "ordained" IMHO kind of defeats the whole servant leader attitude that Jesus represented.

Should we as ministers be so bold as to seperate ourselves or elevate ourselves to a higher plane than that of the rest of the body of Christ?

The Head of the body that I'm part of is Jesus the Christ, I am but a mere cell in that body.

The Head is what should cause the rest of the body to move & function with a motive to accomplish that which the Head chooses to accomplish. The rest of the body is equal in it's importance, as they all work to accomplish this goal, where as none is more important than the other.

Bolt

Hi Boltupright,

Technically it would be both.

Both in that Clergy are typically ordained by the Church which is the body of Christ.  Christ being God and the Church being human.

For good measure in The United Church of Canada one's "call" to ministry or, if you prefer, God's invitation to a particular office of ministry is discerned, via the Holy Spirit by the Church.

I would tend to agree with you were it not for the fact that it is not myself or others who are ordained who rightly put the honourary in front of our names.  That too is the practice of the Church.

It is true that any here who hide behind a vague username and vaguer avatar could append the honorary where it doesn't belong.  Of course, just because a wolf shows up in sheep's clothing it does not mean that there is no such thing as a sheep.

Humility is not thinking yourself less than you are it is an accurate appraisal of who you are.  Speaking personally the honorary has been given to me by The United Church of Canada.  It is a method of distinction.  It doesn't signify that I am better than anyone else It does mark me as separate and set apart for a purpose.

If I use the term to stop conversation or bully my way around I clearly misuse it  The question then, for those who assume I use it to stroke my own pride is how would I be different without it.

Do I use it when I sign my posts?

Some are given to be Apostles, some Prophets and others teachers.  All have the same Spirit not all are given the same gift or recieve the same calling.  Anyone claiming the title saint has used an honorary which means set apart.  Anyone addressing another as saint acknowledges that the other is set apart.  Would you argue that those identified as saints are elevating themselves over others or making themselves higher than the rest of the body of Christ?

Since you are willing to claim the title of minister are you or do you set yourself apart from the rest of the body boltupright?  Do you claim to be better than others?

Why is it then that when others use the honorary titles given to them by the church that they are somehow now claiming to be better than others?

How is it different when I do it than when you do it?  Or RevMatt does it?  Or RevJamesMurray does it?

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi boltupright,

Yes.  For "good measure" meaning more of the same.  Not only do we recognize that God via the Church as the body of Christ ordains we diligently seek via the discernment of the Holy Spirit to confirm that God has called those we ordained to that specific office.

It seems fittingly appropriate that in our trinitarian beliefs we would look for consensus among God as Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer when discerning a call.  I suppose we could just take everyone's word for it and let them do what they want though.

That presupposes that a) the guidleline was in place prior to my selecting my username.  Read the highlighted threads and you will get the whiff of that not necessarily being the case.

It also presupposes that a suggestion is actually an order which it is not.

A suggestion may be advice favouring a certain position.  It would appear, from the conversations I highlighted for IBelieve which are brief and can be quickly read by you if you so desire to learn more about the whole issue from the beginning of WonderCafe, that there are members of the Cafe who are not averse to hearing from individuals called by God and discerned by the Church to serve in specific capacity.

This is a common misconception that stems from those parts of the church which do not share the concilliar system of ecclesial governance that is shared among the Reformed Churches.

I am ordained to a specific office within The United Church of Canada.  That office is the office of Word, Sacrament and Pastoral Care.  Nothing about that office entitles me to speakon behalf of the Church.  In fact there is only one who has the capacity to speak for the Church and that person is the General Council Executive Secretary.  This is the only office which may speak with any authority to what it is that The United Church of Canada believes and even then the office only speaks when required.

I may be permitted to speak for the congregations I serve though that will be limited by the context.

I belong to a collegial body called Presbytery (all who make up Presbytery are Presbyters and all Presbyters are equal be they clergy or laity).   In that body Presbytery has authority over individual Presbyters and congregations for the purpose of oversight.

About two years ago Presbytery discerned that I had the gifts to Preside over Presbytery which means that I will have increased opportunities to preside over Presbytery wide events and that I have been discerned to have the gifts and skills to not shape the policy of Presbytery but keep it pointed in a profitable direction.

The coming year will test whether or not that discernment heard God clearly or not.

Events may happen which will call me to step forward as a spokesperson sharing the thoughts of Presbytery at no time will I ever have the power to unilaterally declare what Presbytery must do or what Presbytery must think.

I will not speak on the behalf of the Church so much as I will, through my particular offices, speak with the Church.

Technically the saints of God are those that God has set apart from the world.  The adhering and discerning may come later it is not required that it be the first step.

It depends on whether you capitalize it or not.  It is like the difference between Church and church.

Ministry with a capital "M" is generally understood as pertaining to a specific office and in that event the use of honorary titles comes into play.  Pastor, Reverend, Rabbi or Priest are all honorary titles which may describe the same specific office.

The title Dr. is an academic degree which signifies teaching ability.  Formally only those who have done the work to earn a Ph.D. are invited to use the honorary designation of Dr.  I am aware of some who, having been awareded honorary degrees (a recognition of service not an estimation of achievement) and believe that they have a right to access the honorary titles.  That impresses folk unaware of how the educational system works but not those who do know.

Ministry with a small "m" is service and all Christians are called to ministry so all Christians are worthy of the designation minister yet, all ministers are not Ministers.

You'll get no argument from me on that score all are called to ministry.  Some from that all are called to specific ministry and having responded to that call are given permission by the Church to append honorary title.

The Apostles were different from the Stewards not because they were better or smarter.  The were different because the tasks were different.

Grace and peace to you.

John.

 If you go back to the beginning of this website you will see that John will never back down and you won't win because of type space.

It's not worth th effort!

Eccles. 2:15 (NKJV) 
    So I said in my heart,
    "As it happens to the fool,
    It also happens to me,
    And why was I then more wise?"
    Then I said in my heart,
    "This also is vanity."

Be Blessed,

IB

Well, to be clear to you John & with respect. When you have the letters Rev in front of your name it says to anyone who sees & recognizes that title as one who is a representative figure in the church, thus when speaking & promoting of different doctinal stands, will give the impression that one speaks on behalf of what is being taught & accepted in the church.

So for you to say that speaking on behalf of the church is only by apointment of a higher office than yours holds little weight IMHO.

I also stress that I do not say in any way that there is not training & testing & discerning involved in the call of a Ministry office of distiguished authority & responsibility within the church body.

This is indeed essential for that type of sevice to God,the church, & mankind.

However, this is in no way a key to the establishment of any more worth in the building up of the Kingdom of God as everyones worth as far as this commision is the same.

To build up the Kingdom

It is all about our heart & where it's motives lie. Are we to serve according to our abilities & see it's worth among what these gifts are?

Or are we to see the worth in how we see our place as part of a whole.

We must first see from where these gifts of service comes from, to have understanding that these gifts are in fact imparted from the whole.

 No part of our own doing at all, other than the obedience of recognizing, acting, & perfecting these gifts for the service to God, the church, & all mankind.

So all I'm saying is, on this forum, the nessesity for you to hold a title is of no gain here for you or anyone, unless your goal is to establish a form of statement of authority within the body of believers within the United Church of Canada.

This is a United Church of Canada forum, so I can understand why the administration would "suggest" to those who have that title to leave it aside to rid any form of assumption of bias.

Things can get pretty political here as is John as you no doubt have found out.

I mean, people like you, ,, they really like you.

Does this clear things up John?

Bolt

Thus your point IB, arrogance is a tough egg to crack.

Bolt

It doesn't take Rev in front of your name to have confidence, on the contrary,,,

Bolt

You don't seem to be getting my point John.

That is OK though, you don't have to see things the way I do, & you don't have to agree with me.

I'm just sharing what my perseption of the matter is.

Bolt

Agreed.

It's not my opinon of you that is the issue here John.

It is my perseption of the attitude, & motive. The attitude & motive of anyone who speaks on behalf of the church of Christ.

That is what a Ministry title or office is after all.

I gathered that. 

Bolt

Perhaps my opinion is an issue to you?

My opinion is based on my perception, MY perception John. I don't speak on behalf of others here, nor do I believe others to assume that I would be so bold as to speak on someone else's behalf on this issue.

 I don't wear a title that would give that impression after all.

A title such a "Rev" will  definately give that belief & expectation John.

Perhaps not to everyone, & I didn't say everyone, did I?

It is rather bold of you to insult the intelligence of this forum administration to offer such a suggestion as to leave your title at the door for any other reason John.

Like I said, I don't expect you to agree, I could care less either way.

Like I say to everyone I share with here, you don't have to agree with me, it is something between you & God.

I'm just putting my perception out there. Just like I put my interpretation of scripture out there.

Nothing, unless you need more clarification, & have more questions for me.

Just an exchange of communication,  & you are not obligated at all.

Bolt

Your perception, you are entitled to it.

The "cute shot" as you refer to it as, is part of the point, not intended in a hostile manner at all.

Besides, how hostile is a "cute shot" anyways?

Myself.

Did they remove that "suggestion" in forum protocol yet?

You appear to be expending alot of time & effort to defend yourself, especially when I speak for only myself.

 Listening or hearing is another matter though, as those who see this thread are free to listen & hear what we both have to say.

How they perceive this discussion is on their own accord.

I'm not surprized in the least.

I'm not surprized in the least, it is only a suggestion after all, not a rule.

The bee in my bonnet is my perception.

Does it "bug" me to see arrogance in a man of God?

BBBUUUUUUZZZZZZZZZ BUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZ to no end.

For you to stop responding to me, & stop asking me questions, & leave it at that.

Or is that too difficult for you?

I was hoping you would say that.

 Yes, communication is a wonderful thing indeed.

Bolt