We use words but I want to know meanings. In the "Dead" thread this phrase has been used over and over again - spiritually dead.
What is that?
What is spiritually alive?
Who are we to say that someone is spiritually dead?
Help me out here.
© WonderCafe. All Rights Reserved
Brought to you by the people of The United Church of Canada
Opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of WonderCafe or The United Church of Canada
Comments
InannaWhimsey
For me: Spiritually alive:
Posted on: 09/18/2010 14:30
For me:
Spiritually alive: Someone who is in tune with what gives them meaning and purpose.
Spiritually dead: Someone who isn't in tune with what gives them meaning and purpose.
So, then, depression (normal depression) becomes a Spiritual condition?
crazyheart
bump up
Posted on: 09/18/2010 16:32
bump up
Azdgari
"Spiritually dead" is a
Posted on: 09/18/2010 17:25
"Spiritually dead" is a derogative term used to dismiss someone's thoughts and to dehumanize that person.
Arminius
The brain is our spiritual
Posted on: 09/18/2010 19:10
The brain is our spiritual organ. I think only someone who is brain dead is spiritually dead.
My German bias comes through, here. In the German language and culture, one uses the noun "Geist" to denote both "intellect" and "spirit."
Depression, then, is an intellectual and spiritual disorder.
Diana
Except depression can have a
Posted on: 09/18/2010 20:07
Except depression can have a physiological basis, treatable by medication. A condition of the brain, not the mind or spirit.
I would define spiritually dead as someone who has shut out love from their lives - as Paul said, love is a gift of the Spirit. Shutting out love is like shutting down your spiritual life.
revjohn
Hi crazyheart, To be
Posted on: 09/18/2010 20:40
Hi crazyheart,
To be spiritually dead I think one would have to be cut off from God to some extent. It would have to coincide with a physical death and condemnation by God in order to be a complete and utter cutting off otherwise God would be able to resurrect that individual from spiritual death to spiritual life.
Who are we to say that someone is spiritually dead?
It is a pretty arrogant presumption on our part to make such claims. It would be safer to suggest that someone gives the appearance of being spiritually dead.
Off-hand I cannot think how making that particular observation serves the kingdom unless it belongs to an attempt to correct. Most often it seems to be used to dismiss individuals.
Grace and peace to you.
John
unsafe
Spiritual Death ---to me
Posted on: 09/18/2010 21:10
Spiritual Death ---to me is
To be physically dead means our soul separates from our physical body so to be spiritually dead means our soul ----which is our Mind -Will and Emotions are separated from God's --Mind --Will and Emotions that He wants for us to follow . We are disconnected from God Spiritually. When God created Adam he was totally connected with God --He had great Fellowship with his Father. When he ate the forbidden fruit his -Mind--Will and emotions were no longer fully connected to his Father's. Fear and doubt crept in and when God called to Adam he hid himself from the one who created him.
To be Spiritually Alive -- to me is
Being fully spiritually connected to God through a personal relationship by way of reading and studying His word and through prayer . Being able to apply Godly wisdom in daily decisions and plans . Being able to forgive when hurt . Having control over emotions and lustful desires etc . Living in personal peace -joy-health-prosperity and happiness. Being aware and alert as to what God's purpose is for our life. Worship God rather than other people and things including money.
Blessings
Azdgari
revjohn wrote: Off-hand I
Posted on: 09/18/2010 21:22
Off-hand I cannot think how making that particular observation serves the kingdom unless it belongs to an attempt to correct. Most often it seems to be used to dismiss individuals.
^^ Pfft, that's just what someone who's spiritually dead would say...
stardust
In traditional Christianity
Posted on: 09/19/2010 01:11
In traditional Christianity what unsafe has posted would be correct I suppose or one who didn't believe the teachings would probably be considered spiritually dead.
Looking outside of Christianity I'd have to agree with Arminius quote :
"I think only someone who is brain dead is spiritually dead."
The word spirit or spirited is used a lot outside of the holy books in everyday conversation. It is used as in a spirited horse, a great team spirit, free spirit, a forlorn spirit, a mean spirit etc. but I've never heard the term " a dead spirit" in daily usage.
Quotes I like:
By spirit is meant
conscious energy,
the life principle,
or the presence of God.
All things that exist
are infused with consciousness —
some are greatly infused,
some only slightly.
The Hebrew word behind spirit is ruach, and it means "air in motion." It is the same word for "breath." It also means "life." By resemblance to breath and air in motion, it means "spirit."
Spirit arises as a sort of steam, or vapour from the infinity of love, in the ocean of love. The activity of soul in the waters, moving individually, creates this mist or spirit as a semi permanent fixture, or addition to the ocean of love. This spirit can penetrate the ocean, and reach the individual soul, and so replenish it with itself to show it, that although it feels separate, and separated from God, it remains part of, and in contact with God, the infinite ocean of love, that it swims in still, without sometimes knowing this, or being aware of this fact.
Arminius
Diana wrote: Except
Posted on: 09/19/2010 01:07
Except depression can have a physiological basis, treatable by medication. A condition of the brain, not the mind or spirit.
I would define spiritually dead as someone who has shut out love from their lives - as Paul said, love is a gift of the Spirit. Shutting out love is like shutting down your spiritual life.
Yes, Diana, some depression can have a purely physiological basis, in which case medication is appropriate.
Even a depression that is caused by poor thinking can be treated with medication, but the medication lessens only the symptoms, not the underlying cause. The challenge then is to deal with the underlying cause while the symptoms are less severe.
stardust
Here are some Calvinist
Posted on: 09/19/2010 01:49
Here are some Calvinist links. I didn't read them much but maybe someone is interested.
Rev. John and other Calvinists: I'm just posting this as information regarding the term "spiritually dead" . I know very little about Calvinists so I'm not interested in arguing or debating.
Quote:
"Extreme Calvinists put the new birth before faith, since they believe that spiritually dead humans cannot exercise faith and, therefore, need to be born again before they can believe" [C. Gordon Olson, Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, p. 39]. The doctrine of man’s total depravity has been carried to the extreme by some Calvinists resulting in a wrong understanding of man’s inability. They believe that the sinner is dead in sin and therefore he is like a corpse, totally unable to do anything. They believe he first must be regenerated and have life and only then will he be able to believe the gospel. But the Scripture teaches that he must believe in order to have life (John 20:31).
Happy Genius
stardust wrote: Here are some
Posted on: 09/19/2010 03:22
Here are some Calvinist links. I didn't read them much but maybe someone is interested.
Rev. John and other Calvinists: I'm just posting this as information regarding the term "spiritually dead" . I know very little about Calvinists so I'm not interested in arguing or debating.
You don't even want to discuss Hobbs? I'm a Hobbsinst 'my self...there's never been a greater tiger, even the hungry one in Oz.
.
Pilgrims Progress
Happy Genius wrote: You don't
Posted on: 09/19/2010 04:21
You don't even want to discuss Hobbs? I'm a Hobbsinst 'my self...there's never been a greater tiger, even the hungry one in Oz.
The hungry one in Oz?
My reputation proceeds me.
jon71
I've always thought it was a
Posted on: 09/19/2010 06:11
I've always thought it was a somewhat metaphorical way of describing one's relationship with GOD, either alive or dead.
WaterBuoy
If thought and emotion are
Posted on: 09/19/2010 07:43
If thought and emotion are equitable as gheist ... which is coming and which is Goan (old hindi expression for a travelling spirit)?
Perhaps this could explain the expression you never understand emotions until you see them goin' the as is end of an enigma? That should get Hobbes and Loch into a dither!
Is emotion a mystery a sord of wordy God whereas the enscribed word in black ... absence of colour so we couldn't see nuthin without the surroundings ... defined by Webster as all that is aura about the bode & will ...
Did that come across the Blackpool stream well or just as a rael stinker (Pêðrè) in variable tongues? O'hear we goan ajin ...
The the cite could use a wee Eumerus, aL ang'L'd ...
From a file called Anglein Saac UNE:
WaterBuoy
Did Jah Gnoe A'B'D in
Posted on: 09/19/2010 07:50
Did Jah Gnoe A'B'D in biblical Hebrew is for divorced or separated like the mind and the brae'n when distraught by fear of being struck devined ... like an integral of Deux dimensions .. per Deuce Univeral? It is sortof like the Greek phi ... a Circe with a line through it ... parietal lobos for balance (Ba'aL antes) ... some afllout required for gaining the Pæn 've experience ... the only way the Dae Mon learns ... but not too heavy a hand mind you ... smears thy's Torah ... like Smour that comes as Isis ... a bust of chill'n giggles? Sometimes it just goes to Yer head!
chansen
Azdgari wrote: revjohn
Posted on: 09/19/2010 13:41
Off-hand I cannot think how making that particular observation serves the kingdom unless it belongs to an attempt to correct. Most often it seems to be used to dismiss individuals.
^^ Pfft, that's just what someone who's spiritually dead would say...
LMAO
revjohn
Hi Stardust, stardust
Posted on: 09/19/2010 21:12
Hi Stardust,
Here are some Calvinist links. I didn't read them much but maybe someone is interested.
They are not exactly Calvinist links. They are links attacking Calvinist thought.
Rev. John and other Calvinists: I'm just posting this as information regarding the term "spiritually dead" . I know very little about Calvinists so I'm not interested in arguing or debating.
Okay.
Grace and peace to you.
John
revjohn
Hi Azdgari, Azdgari
Posted on: 09/19/2010 21:13
Hi Azdgari,
^^ Pfft, that's just what someone who's spiritually dead would say...
Well, you got me there.
Grace and peace to you.
John
blackbelt
Spiritually dead, is the
Posted on: 09/19/2010 22:13
Spiritually dead, is the state or condition of the Spirit that God has given us, It is dormant, non working, non active towards a relationship with the creator who gave it.
Berserk
Perhaps, a typical biblical
Posted on: 09/19/2010 23:53
Perhaps, a typical biblical text might illustrate what many mean by this claim. I'm quoting a portion of the risen Jesus' prophetic message to the Church of Sardis: "I know all that you do and that you have a reputation for being alive--but you are dead. Now wake up! Strengthen what remains, for even what is left is at the point of death. Your deeds are far from right in the sight of God (Revelation 2:1-2),"
On a lighter note, long ago I heard this rant from a Pentecostal preacher that had the merit of being completely memorable on one hearing: "I like my religion the way I like my tea--hot! Because I'd rather be a fool on fire than a scholar on ice and it's easier to cool a hot coal than to warm up a corpse. Honestly, when I drive by these liberal churches, I take my hat off out of respect for the dead!" Churches with high octane emotional exuberance in worship often view more sedate Christians like those in my church as spiritually "dead."
Don
Happy Genius
Berserk wrote: ...Churches
Posted on: 09/20/2010 00:06
...Churches with high octane emotional exuberance in worship often view more sedate Christians like those in my church as spiritually "dead."
I've always envied them. As I did those who know how to "Jitter-bug". "The New Yorker", The "Twist", et al.
I'm a waltz man, m'self...but I would like to yell and shout in a church....once....maybe...
onewman
Spiritual death in the New
Posted on: 09/20/2010 07:35
Spiritual death in the New Testament, is the lack of eternal life. "Eternal" I would say, is a quality of life, not neccesarily a quantitiy of time that this type of life would be held for. Jesus repeatedly speaks about getting "life", why would he say that, if everyone is obviously already alive? If you are in a state of needing life, than by default you are....? If you are physically alive then what kind of dead could you be, other than spiritually dead?
airclean33
Hi Crazyheart-- I would say
Posted on: 09/20/2010 11:23
Hi Crazyheart-- I would say by what Jesus said , He calls those that don't follow Him in the way are dead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MC jae
In my own understanding... to
Posted on: 09/20/2010 18:30
In my own understanding... to be spiritually dead is to be seperated from God because of our sinfulness. It is the state into which each of us is born. To become spiritually alive one must accept Christ into their heart.
chansen
Jae wrote: In my own
Posted on: 09/20/2010 20:12
In my own understanding... to be spiritually dead is to be seperated from God because of our sinfulness. It is the state into which each of us is born. To become spiritually alive one must accept Christ into their heart.
Imagine the infant checklist in the hospital...
weight: 7lbs 10oz
breathing: normal
heartbeat: normal
eyes: blue
arms: 2
fingers: 10
legs: 2
toes: 10
spiritually: dead
Neo
chansen wrote: Jae wrote: In
Posted on: 09/20/2010 22:25
In my own understanding... to be spiritually dead is to be seperated from God because of our sinfulness. It is the state into which each of us is born. To become spiritually alive one must accept Christ into their heart.
Imagine the infant checklist in the hospital...
weight: 7lbs 10oz
breathing: normal
heartbeat: normal
eyes: blue
arms: 2
fingers: 10
legs: 2
toes: 10
spiritually: dead
Just enough time to lurk through some W-Cafe comments, but I had to respond to this one.
I'm sorry Jae, but this was funny. The idea that we are born in sin is an outdated doctrine and one that won't survive the future.
Chansen,
for this.
Jae, we become spiritually dead through our own volition, our own choice.
Tyson
chansen wrote: Jae wrote: In
Posted on: 09/20/2010 22:34
In my own understanding... to be spiritually dead is to be seperated from God because of our sinfulness. It is the state into which each of us is born. To become spiritually alive one must accept Christ into their heart.
Imagine the infant checklist in the hospital...
weight: 7lbs 10oz
breathing: normal
heartbeat: normal
eyes: blue
arms: 2
fingers: 10
legs: 2
toes: 10
spiritually: dead
There is a spot for spirituallity? Neat.
Arminius
I think for Jesus—and
Posted on: 09/21/2010 01:42
I think for Jesus—and according to his teachings—being spiritually alive meant to experience unity, unitive awareness and unitive love, and act on those. The spiritual experience was his "Kingdom," and attaining the experience and acting on it was far more important than practicing rituals. The rituals were important only inasmuch as they led to the experience and the appropriate action. The rituals were the means, the experience and the action the end, and the end was what really mattered. Practicing rituals without the spiritual experience and the appropriate action was being spiritually dead. And for those whe were spirtually alive the rituals didn't matter. Hence: Let the dead bury the dead.
Seek ye first the kingdom.
-Jesus
WaterBuoy
Unify, connect, tiye, commune
Posted on: 09/21/2010 07:24
Unify, connect, tiye, commune ... a gathering of th'aughts?
Th'aughts ... Mir nothings?
Such meditation tickle the soul, so the daemon giggles ...
WaterBuoy
Is a child borne of nothing
Posted on: 09/21/2010 07:28
Is a child borne of nothing but Love ... and has to learn through life of the spirit of Light ...
Omega'd awareness!
And authority deems to keep the wee people in the dark, well-doused and up to their ears ...
Freud: "Something 'll come Ovið!"
Reverse fleur-ID ... a gathering of Light ... Jae sous where did that come from ...
In the beginning a dark formless void ... then ...
stardust
Arminius quote: "I think for
Posted on: 09/21/2010 09:45
Arminius
quote:
"I think for Jesus—and according to his teachings—being spiritually alive meant to experience unity, unitive awareness and unitive love, and act on those."
Agreed.
The general overview of the narrow NT appears to be that most of the people were bad...bad...bad....! I find this impossible to believe. There must have been good people too as there is in every age? There must have been those who loved, followed, and believed in God in the same sense as Jesus did even before Jesus came on the scene, ordinary little people. The masses who went to hear him would not have bothered had they all been spiritually dead
.
MC jae
Neo wrote:I'm sorry Jae, but
Posted on: 09/21/2010 20:30
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
I do not agree. However, I do hold that we accept spiritual life through our own volition, our own choice. Spiritual death is the default position.
chansen
Jae wrote: Neo wrote:I'm
Posted on: 09/21/2010 20:40
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
jon71
chansen wrote: Jae wrote: Neo
Posted on: 09/22/2010 07:28
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
It could be today or it could be 1000 years from now. There is no reason to be snarky.
Azdgari
There is when someone speaks
Posted on: 09/22/2010 07:59
There is when someone speaks of such an event with yearning. Gotta love that everlasting hellfire. I mean, how can you feel superior to the out-group, if you don't believe that they're all doomed to eternal torture? It's the ultimate "ha-ha, I win" card.
chansen
jon71 wrote: chansen
Posted on: 09/22/2010 09:07
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
It could be today or it could be 1000 years from now. There is no reason to be snarky.
There is ample reason to be snarky. Jae is telling me that I'll be "condemned to everlasting hellfire". All I'm saying is, Christians have been predicting the end times to happen "any day now" for thousands of years, citing all kinds of reasons that supposedly align with biblical prophesies.
Based on the track record of Christian predictions, there is no better reason to think that some prophesy won't happen, than to have a Christian tell you this prophesy is going to happen.
Tyson
chansen wrote: jon71
Posted on: 09/22/2010 10:53
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
It could be today or it could be 1000 years from now. There is no reason to be snarky.
There is ample reason to be snarky. Jae is telling me that I'll be "condemned to everlasting hellfire". All I'm saying is, Christians have been predicting the end times to happen "any day now" for thousands of years, citing all kinds of reasons that supposedly align with biblical prophesies.
Based on the track record of Christian predictions, there is no better reason to think that some prophesy won't happen, than to have a Christian tell you this prophesy is going to happen.
So if you don't believe in such things, why be snarky? That is unless you are taking offense, in which case why are you taking offense?
blackbelt
jon71 wrote: chansen
Posted on: 09/22/2010 11:35
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
It could be today or it could be 1000 years from now. There is no reason to be snarky.
he's snarky because of his original sin nature
Azdgari
CF, he is not taking offence
Posted on: 09/22/2010 11:35
CF, he is not taking offence at the possibility of everlasting hellfire - he doesn't believe in that possibility, as you point out.
He is, as you say, taking offence. I would, too, for the reason I pointed out in my above post. The hellfire may not be real (as far as we know), but Jae's smugness, his belief that Chansen will burn eternally, and his belief that this is right and good - those are very real. And despicable.
chansen
I'm just pointing out how
Posted on: 09/22/2010 11:36
I'm just pointing out how ridiculous the whole end times/rapture/eternal hellfire predictions are. I'm eternally grateful for Christians who keep bringing this up, because I can have a lot of fun with this stuff, and Christians can take solace knowing that I'll be burning for eternity over it all. Here's how that will probably sound:
"Ow, the heat. It's biblically hot in here, and it seems to be going on for eternity. Ouch, ouch."
blackbelt
chansen wrote: jon71
Posted on: 09/22/2010 11:40
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
It could be today or it could be 1000 years from now. There is no reason to be snarky.
There is ample reason to be snarky. Jae is telling me that I'll be "condemned to everlasting hellfire". All I'm saying is, Christians have been predicting the end times to happen "any day now" for thousands of years, citing all kinds of reasons that supposedly align with biblical prophesies.
Based on the track record of Christian predictions, there is no better reason to think that some prophesy won't happen, than to have a Christian tell you this prophesy is going to happen.
now that real dumb, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at humanity's track record and figure out man is well on his way to doom and gloom, if there is no Divine intervention, were toast
chansen
blackbelt wrote: chansen
Posted on: 09/22/2010 11:47
Based on the track record of Christian predictions, there is no better reason to think that some prophesy won't happen, than to have a Christian tell you this prophesy is going to happen.
now that real dumb, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at humanity's track record and figure out man is well on his way to doom and gloom, if there is no Divine intervention, were toast
Which war, famine, leader, or other reason from history are you using this time? Is it the invention of the IPad that has you convinced this time? The Haitian earthquake? Or are you looking further back? Is it WWI? The Great Depression? The Dark Ages? Sonny and Cher?
blackbelt
chansen wrote: blackbelt
Posted on: 09/22/2010 11:55
Based on the track record of Christian predictions, there is no better reason to think that some prophesy won't happen, than to have a Christian tell you this prophesy is going to happen.
now that real dumb, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at humanity's track record and figure out man is well on his way to doom and gloom, if there is no Divine intervention, were toast
Which war, famine, leader, or other reason from history are you using this time? Is it the invention of the IPad that has you convinced this time? The Haitian earthquake? Or are you looking further back? Is it WWI? The Great Depression? The Dark Ages? Sonny and Cher?
does it matter? it all smells the same
chansen
So, the end is coming soon,
Posted on: 09/22/2010 12:22
So, the end is coming soon, because there have always been reasons to predict the end is coming soon. Got it.
blackbelt
chansen wrote: So, the end is
Posted on: 09/22/2010 12:31
So, the end is coming soon, because there have always been reasons to predict the end is coming soon. Got it.
Jesus said, only God knows when the end is , but your time is now to prepare your heart. You know like the old Devry commercial , why are you making it complicated, pick up the phone and do it now , not tomorrow.
Neo
Jae wrote: Neo wrote:I'm
Posted on: 09/22/2010 21:26
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
I do not agree. However, I do hold that we accept spiritual life through our own volition, our own choice. Spiritual death is the default position.
You have every right to disagree with me, and I admit that I was a little terse with my response. We, the vast, vast majority of "us", all come into this life with preconditioned karmas. And by "karmas", I am talking about experiences we've had with creation. Creation is energy and light. And our involvement with it and our consequent evolution out of it, creates conditioning in the mind, spirit and body. These are our debts, good and bad. They are the effects of our causes within cyclic evolution.
Standing outside of cyclic evolution, (or is that more accurately said 'standing in the centre of cyclic evolution'?), is a part of us that isn't involved with conditioning. Our inner Being, that internal "Spark of Life" that can be found in everything in the universe. It is the God within that is not effected by the storm of creation. Standing of the periphery of Life, however, and involved in creation through light, time and space, is our Becoming, that part of us that is the ephemeral and manifests through the outer, manifested universe.
"Our Being is unchanging, whereas our becoming is a process of time and space". Our Being is the God within, expressing itself through the medium of creation, that is, through the light and energy of creation. It manifest through us as mind, spirit and body. These are the temples of the Lord.
The Self within is that 'spark' of the God Immanent. Creation is Its a reflection, the God Transcendent (outside) of the God Immanent (inside). This Spark of God within is what we simply call, for lack of a better term, "Life". Life exists outside of time and space and outside of vibration. Life exists outside of light and beyond creation. There is, of course, no proof of this, but those who are aware of the subtle forces in life know this to be true. Science will eventually prove this and begin to measure the most subtle, the "light within the light".
So with the above in mind, I could agree with you and say that, 'yes', our karmic conditionings makes us who we are when we're born, and that we could call this, to some degree at least, being 'born in sin'.
However, our destiny is be free. Free from the conditionings of the mind, spirit and body. Free from the karmas of cyclic evolution. Free from the conditionings of time, space and matter.
No one is born without the opportunity to rise above their station in life. No one is 'born in sin' in a manner that offers no free will or choice for the betterment of themselves. Life is love and the opportunity for Awareness is always standing before us.
Living life with sincerity of spirit, honesty of mind, and above all detachment, is all that is expected from us. But above all, the teachers tell us, be who you are. Don't copy or mimic anyone. If you are a new born Christian, a Catholic or a Jew, it doesn't matter what the religion, the important thing to remember is that we be who we are. Through sincerity, honesty and detachment our 'sin', our karmic conditioning, can be dealt with most directly and most effectively.
In light of all of the above, I believe that we do become spiritually dead through our own volition. We are the ones that move away from the Awareness of God, it's never the other way around. Take one step towards awareness and that Awareness will take two steps towards you. On this, I think we agree.
MC jae
chansen wrote: Jae wrote: Neo
Posted on: 09/22/2010 18:46
Of course I disagree with your assessment of the current state of the doctrine. On the other hand, I agree that in the future it will no longer hold true. That future will begin when there is a new heaven and earth, and the current things are done away with. Then the blessed will live with God forever more, and the wicked will have been condemned to everlasting hellfire.
You'd better keep watch for that. I hear it's going to happen any day now.
I live with eager anticipation.

MC jae
chansen wrote: Which war,
Posted on: 09/22/2010 18:53
Which war, famine, leader, or other reason from history are you using this time? Is it the invention of the IPad that has you convinced this time? The Haitian earthquake? Or are you looking further back? Is it WWI? The Great Depression? The Dark Ages? Sonny and Cher?
MC jae
blackbelt wrote: Jesus said,
Posted on: 09/22/2010 18:53
Jesus said, only God knows when the end is , but your time is now to prepare your heart. You know like the old Devry commercial , why are you making it complicated, pick up the phone and do it now , not tomorrow.