crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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Stigmata

Hope that is spelt right? What do you know about it? Do you think it really happens? Why?

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abpenny's picture

abpenny

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Good mornin crazy...I was

Good mornin crazy...I was listening to The Mind Body Code by Mario Martinez and he did a study of stigmata for ( I think) National Geographic.  Many of the cases were self-inflicted but there were a couple that the wounds did not heal and did not become infected. 

HIs recap was that our thoughts can and do affect our physical being.  Think of a sour lemon and your mouth waters...think of an arguement that made you very angry and your heart pounds, etc.

 An interesting fact was that when it was discovered that crusifiction was not through the palms but through the wrists....the stigmatics wounds then appeared on the wrists.  He acknowledged that there were claims of healing attached to these people but did not go into it. 

 

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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Always wondered if it was

Always wondered if it was only Roman Catholics that experienced this. Anybody know?

crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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Thanks penny and waterfall.I

Thanks penny and waterfall.I know nothing much about it but in a novel i am reading stigmata is mentioned and how it is something people don't want to talk about. Why?

MorningCalm's picture

MorningCalm

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From your friends at

From your friends at Wikipedia...

 

"Modern research has postulated stigmata are of hysterical origin,[13] or linked to dissociative identity disorders,[14] especially the link between dietary constriction by self-starvation, dissociative mental states and self-mutilation, in the context of a religious belief.[15] Anorexia nervosa cases often display self-mutilation similar to stigmata as part of a ritualistic, obsessive compulsive disorder. A relationship between starvation and self-mutilation has been reported amongst prisoners of war and during famines.[16][17][18]. A psychoanalytic study of stigmatatic Thérèse Neumann has suggested that her stigmata resulted from post-traumatic stress symptoms expressed in unconscious self-mutilation through abnormal autosuggestibility.[19]

In his Stigmata: A Medieval Phenomenon in a Modern Age, Edward Harrison suggests that there is no single mechanism whereby the marks of stigmata were produced. Harrison found no evidence from a study of contemporary cases that the marks were supernatural in origin. However marks of natural origin need not be hoaxes, he concluded. Some stigmatics marked themselves in attempt to suffer with Christ as a form of piety. Others marked themselves accidentally and their marks were noted as stigmata by witnesses. Often marks of human origin produced profound and genuine religious responses. Harrison also noted that the male-to-female ratio of stigmatics, which for many centuries had been of the order of 7 to 1, had changed over the last 100 years to a ratio of 5:4. Appearance of stigmata frequently coincided with times when issue of authority loomed large in the Church. What was significant about stigmatics was not that they were predominantly men, but that they were non-ordained, with the drastic exception of Leslie Vinyard, an Oklahoma-based charismatic. Having stigmata gave them direct access to the body of Christ without requiring the permission of the Church through the Eucharist. Only in the last century have priests been stigmatized.[20]

From the records of St. Francis’ physical ailments and symptoms, Dr. Edward Hartung concluded in 1935 that he knew what health problems plagued the holy man. Hartung believed that he had an eye ailment known as trachoma, but also had quartan malaria. Quartan malaria infects the liver, spleen, and stomach, causing the victim intense pain. One complication of quartan malaria occasionally seen around Francis’s time is known as purpura, a purple hemorrhage of blood into the skin. Purpuras usually occur symmetrically, so each hand and foot would have been affected equally. If this were the case of St. Francis, he would have been afflicted by ecchymoses, an exceedingly large purpura. The purple spots of blood may have been punctured while in the wilderness and therefore appear as an open wound like that of Christ.[21]" (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata )

unsafe's picture

unsafe

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The Visionary, Catalina

The Visionary, Catalina Rivas:
-Has been tested scientifically by many methods and has shown no signs of fraud and has basically baffled the scientists
-Has endured the stigmata, the wounds of Christ, many times and once while on camera in front of a scientific team
-Her attending physician claims that the woman is dying as, over the period of several hours, bloody wounds appear on her hands, and forehead. Yet, the next day, she is recovered fully, and her wounds have inexplicably disappeared.

 


-She "is given" and writes down deep theological essays in languages she does not know
-She displayed her power of "speaking with Jesus" when she was told by Jesus that the scientific team in the adjoining soundproof room had just spoken that they thought Catia was perhaps epileptic.  She confronted the accusation right then, live on camera, to the amazement of the team.
-As Catia claims to see visions of Jesus a bright reflection of light becomes clearly visible in her eyes.
-Catia has shown great respect and obedience to the authority of the Church.  She has shown conversion, humility and piety as a result of her experiences.
 

The_Omnissiah's picture

The_Omnissiah

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OK....so let's see this

OK....so let's see this video...

 

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

unsafe's picture

unsafe

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  The_Omnissiah    -----OK...

 

The_Omnissiah    -----OK....so let's see this video...

 

All I did was type in her name on google ----   

 

Blessings

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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Blood on your hands

Blood on your hands ...

 

Some people will do anything to wash it away once they realize they are responsible for another's death. Consider the leadership of Pilate, someone leading us unto a precarious position by hiding the Light. Is such denial subliminal in the totallity of the human soul?

 

Think of Saul falling from 'is hoers ... a real rippur in heaven for the man to fall out of that higher state as described by Jacob's ladder ... "what goes up ...?"

 

One should stay within means stable position until pushed across the lines by authority! That is well-illustrated by the diminishing middle class today ... everone will experience the crash due to general greed ... the G'Ð that leads man is cruel without a wee bit of common sense ... street knowledge that is far below the upper crust ... they don't wish to know the vernacular foundations of the larger soul ... the social mind? Anti socialism is a capital idea in the temporal mode eh? It too passes ... evolves ... but we deny such things, thinking we can keep all things under our thumb! In comparison to the Cos Moes what are we but a bug in space and we think we know it all ... that's humbling eh!

lastpointe's picture

lastpointe

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I do beleve that this is

I do beleve that this is something seen and have read that it can effect anyone although primarily RC's.  Hysteria seems to be the logical cause.

 

but I guess we can see lots of odd things that happen in human bodies so why not this.

Tyson's picture

Tyson

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Considering this whole

Considering this whole "body/mind connection stuff, I wonder. If I think about it hard enough and get hysterical enough, will my diabetes and bi-polar disorder go away?

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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If there's a will with it

If there's a will with it there's a wah!

abpenny's picture

abpenny

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I'm pretty sure hysterical

I'm pretty sure hysterical won't be helpful, cf.  Unfortunately there will be some that will twist this to blame people for making themselves ill and that isn't the message behind the science.

 

If you're predisposed to a condition, prolonged stress, unresolved shame, guilt, etc. is likely to escalate it.  Heaping some shame or guilt onto a person for being ill is going exactly backward to the science.  Adding meditation, prayer, acceptance of an illness as part of who you are, without shame....is the ticket. 

Tyson's picture

Tyson

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(No subject)

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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Thank You abpenny ... that

Thank You abpenny ... that makes a lot more sense than a lot of emotional outbursts I've seen here ... you seem to have struck a truth.

 

Then, most will be deluded for they didn't want to know; you've heard the old adage: "You really don't want to know that!" When the truth is the other doesn't wish to say it ... they fear.

 

There is an old saying that you have to eat a pound of dirt in life to know anything ... and that cleanliness is next to God Lye Ness. Is God without sense or is this just another truth all bent out of shape by m'n that didn't wish to know anything, especially the unravelling of emotions opposing factor ... the devilish mind? IT disturbs the ID, the initial fours altered states: fear, anger, curiosity and Joie in not knowing nothin ...

 

On the other hand ...

 

Now if truth is bent ... will it look dark on the page? Isn't that Light ... the very thing that Einstein stated would connect mortals to the immortal ... if you could see it in reflection on the page ... Mir satyr? One could get absorbed in that shadow if first there was a spark of intuition to drive you to that work. Is emotive intuitional ... we don't know how, when, where, and why it came to be? And no one wishes to take up an infinite journey ... so God dropped the effort ... a shadow of a hint of the initiation from heir upt data! Like halve of the knot of information needed to make a means of expression of Love ... don't do wit' unless you care ... for a giggle is good for th'sole thing .. a Kos Moe Logical Peace of rational loupe ... balanced by a weaper? My ais leak when I laugh ... no bottom to the senses eh! Such is beyond us in the acronym of myth. If yah don't have the dirt on these words yah can't sees IT!

 

Such Eumerus perspective makes the other side bother us, they think common folk shouldn't laugh ... it gives indication that the pagan knows more than the hei rupts Pompei's Blast ... mostly dirt some gas eh when you consider some people don't believe in a big bang, nor egos ... know'n wit' who tae du wit'? What's phtha Eire ... that an aboriginal word on the mind ... mostly silence ... a sign that heis thin kyne ... about Stelle Aaron things ... pyres in deep space? It must be whetted to expand anything ... thsu the expression whither thou goest ... and Egyptians found a use for old salts ... good for makin Hams for the king to sit a'pun as sleight for the wee people. Mac Beth? Çhi sae sheltered Ham erse ... a dark language like Hebrew ... King J'Aimes didn't like it ... didn't even wish to know so he was ill literate sort ... didn't know better than what he did! One must know the dead laguages as another perspective of the mind ... b'calmed poeL? That's a pond or a Loch in some tongues ... sometimes just mud Eire puddling around! Words are what yah make of eM, some people think they are rule ... but a lass that f(Lexis) when buoy'd ... mudder ear thin space ... collecting dirt ... it's aura  ... star dust ... wee points of light in the dark Ness! Some heir waters required---Jaw'n Cash!

stardust's picture

stardust

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    Unsafe mentioned Catalina

 

 

Unsafe mentioned Catalina Rivas above. I googled for more info. on her. I did read the bio of Padre Pio, a monk in Italy I believe who had the stigmata. Very interesting.

 

False messages

 

http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false54.htm

 

 

http://www.catholicplanet.com/future/antichrist-timeline.htm

 

Rivas - skeptic

http://www.skepdic.com/rivas.html

http://www.skepdic.com/stigmata.html

Reader comments - not a fraud

 

http://www.skepdic.com/comments/rivascom.html

stardust's picture

stardust

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Here's the story of P.

Here's the story of P. Pio.

 

 

Father Pio Stigmata -  quote:
 
 
He had not desired this physical conformity and when he had recovered somewhat from the immediate experience his embarrassment was extreme: "I am dying of pain because of the wound and because of the resulting embarrassment which I feel deep within my soul. . . Will Jesus who is so good grant me this grace ? Will he at least relieve me of the embarrassment which these outward signs cause me" (Ep., V. 1, p. 1904). Not the wound, not the pain did he wish removed but only the visible signs which at the time he considered to be an indescribable and almost unbearable humiliation.
 
 
P. Pio was so terrified in the face of this phenomenon that he begged the Lord to withdraw them.
 
 
 
 
His miracles:
 
 
 
 
There are at least 80 saints and blessed whose stigmata have been validly
                documented, the doctor said. Although the Church recognizes the phenomenon,
                it does not oblige the faithful to believe in it as a dogmatic or doctrinal
                fact.
 
 
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