People, groups, agencies, companies, whatever, are all allowed to advertise their opinions, aren't they?  I lost track of how many ads I saw over the holidays trying to market "The ultimate gift" and "The perfect gift", etc.  These are opinions, not facts.  I think a company would be hard-pressed to defend that their product is the ultimate or perfect gift.

Religious groups have been allowed to advertise - heck, they do it with a big sign in front of almost every church.  And I've seen religious ads on busses, subways, billboards, magazines, etc.  They are all expressing an opinion, making a statement that cannot be proven.

How is this Atheist Bus campaign any different?

"There's PROBABLY no  God"     PROBABLY????????????????

LOL!!!!  Gotta love the convictions of an atheist.

Then it's an  unnecessary message.

They can advertise all they want. It doesn't threaten me any and it probably wont change many minds any how. They are however preaching, which is within their right. I just happen to find it all quite funny because they point fingers at believers as doing the very same thing. So much for atheists not being organized.

Meh. No biggie. Advertise away.

If the sings say , "There probably is no God", one could argue that then at best they are hard core agnostics. Could one then purpose an ad campaign that says, "There probably are no athesists." ?

waterfall wrote:

> Gotta love the convictions of an atheist.

Our convictions are based on the study of experimentation and evidence, and the application of logic and reasoning.  By doing so in the case of there being a God, we come up with a probability of there being one as being very, very small, close to zero basically.  But we do not claim to know that there is no God.  That can't be proven, and we accept that.

The flip side is that the religious claim to "know" things, with certainty, but with no evidence or experimental results to back it up, and no reasoning or logic to explain how they arrived at their convictions. 

And unlike an atheist, who is willing to change his probability estimates in light of new evidence or logic, the religious do not seem willing to even consider re-evaluating their convictions, even in the face of conflicting evidence and logic.

blackbelt wrote:

Of course we don't know.  We don't claim to.  That's the point.  The religious claim to know things for certain, without being able to explain their logic or reasoning or produce evidence to support their certainty.  We atheists are OK not knowing.

And blackbelt, your note parodying the "probably" of the Atheist Bus campaign fell a little flat.  Perhaps you're confusing the concept of "maybe" with the concept of "probably".

blackbelt wrote:

> i like to believe there probably is no taxes

The thing is, when stating a negative it takes just one counter-example to invalidate the statement.  I am an atheist, and I can produce for you other atheists, so the statement "There probably are no atheists" can be proven  to be false by counter-example.  Similarly, we have income taxes, liquor taxes, sales taxes, etc., providing numerous counter-examples to disprove blackbelt's notion that there are probably no taxes.

Similarly, we atheists are open to you disproving our statement that there is probably not a God by producing just one counter-example.  We would willingly change our position in light of the new evidence.  Any takers?

Hi nighthawk: Moreover, Buddhists wouldn't be offended if they saw such a sign. They know that the offended is his or her own offender, and would choose not to take offence.

What's more, the world of appearances is illusion to them. 

I can produce one more person who does believe in God.

i would like to correct you , your no atheist, you are agnostic

Witch ;you are right we cannot produce God we can either believe or not that is our choice. I choose to believe in God.

 The 'probably' had to be used because of the advertising laws in Britain.  If they had said that there is no god, they would have been required to prove it.  

Can we put "There's probably no intelligence at Queen's Park"?  If so, go for it!

i agree :)

And the sign said, "Everybody welcome. Come in, kneel down and pray"
But when they passed around the plate at the end of it all, I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and a paper and I made up my own little sign
I said, "Thank you, Lord, for thinkin' 'bout me. I'm alive and doin' fine."
Wooo!

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

Five Man Electrical Band, Signs

Quite correct. But nor can the atheist prove that God does not exist.

Well, consumingfire, it all depends on how one defines God. If one defines God as the self-generative universe, then one may not be able to prove that the universe is self-generative, but no-one in their right mind doubts the existence of the universe.

So we Pantheists have half of the proof for the existence of God. Better than none, eh?  

I do find it vaguely interesting that God is unproven by default.  Why?  Many of the sub-atomic particles that physicists theorise are equally unseen and without evidence, but they are assumed proven by default (see: Hadron Collider).

In any case, I am certainly not bothered by the signs, and, in fact, am cautiously supportive of them.  We don't tend to have the same issues in this country of rabid* Christian fundamentalists telling people they are going to hell (which is what started all of this in Britain) but we are moving in that direction.  If the mainstream Christian community, fundamentalist and otherwise, can't reign in the lunatic fringe, then I don't mind the atheists helping.

*use of the word rabid here is intentional - I DO pay attention to the fact that not all fundamentalists are the same.  CF, for example, is hardly rabid or offensive.

What parts of Ontario are these signs going to appear in?  Because I'm all for hating on Toronto.  If it appears anywhere else, I am very supportive of the campaign, as it will lead to debate.  If it is just in Toronto, it is clearly just a play by the devil, who created Toronto in the first place.  Can Torontonians even read through the smog?

consumingfire

"Quite correct. But nor can the atheist prove that God does not exist."

One cannot prove a negative as there may always be one more fact that makes it true.

I prefer to err on the glass half full size, there is a God.  It may not be your traditional God, but there is an underlying order to the Universe.

IT

Russ

I am not "frightened" by atheists or other religions but sorry, this ad campaign strikes me as funny and that's all. If I read it on a bus or billboard I would just burst out laughing because of the wording.

I would find it equally amusing if a religious group had a sign up that said, "repent or go to hell"

Even Obama gave recognition to non-believers (  atheists?) yesterday in his speech.

You always have to wonder about the people who discount your experience as an oddity.  Sorry, my experience with Evangelicals is neither short in time nor small in numbers.  Several denominations, several interdenominational groups in several cities and on more than one continent, for a good portion of my life.  Perhaps your experience is too narrow.  Maybe you attend the odd exception of a healthy Evangelical church--I suppose it is possible that there is at least one.

No fear?  What do you call the, as Billy Graham called it "the Hour of Decision"--decide RIGHT NOW or you are going to hell--talk about a high pressure sale!  Come on.  Talk about willful blindness.  I hadn't realized that the altar call was invented and limited to my particular area of the world--odd that I seen them both in my home town, other parts of Canada and in other parts of the world.

Confident?  I have at least three Evangelical friends who have shared with me that at points in their life, they had real fears that he, personally (all three were male), was the anti-Christ.  Don't mistake the Sunday-morning-for-show-brave-face with genuine confidence.  Don't be too confident the "just really" sincere-voiced prayers reveal true inspiration.  Few Evangelicals are confident in their salvation.  In my view, it is really quite sad.

The biggest blessing I could ask for you, IBelieve, is that you see the elephant in the room the next time you are at church, your prayer group or your Bible study group and I ask for it.

"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

To me, an aetheist group is entitled to spend their money on advertising if they wish.  But I would like to see them advertise what they think rather than imply something.

To me this ad implies that those who believe in God are worrying needlessly about stuff and not enjoying life.

I see no evidence of this anywhere.

In fact, studies woudl say the opposit, that a belief in a Greater being than ourselves, gives people hope and peace.

So, go ahead and place an ad that says

"I believe there is no god, do you?"  or something.

But don't imply that because I do believe i am worried and not happy.