Regarding the claim that the ad attacks Christianity and avoids, say, Islam, if you look at the actual ad, the word "god" isn't capitalized (well, more accurately, the entire word, in fact the entire phrase, is capitalized). So there's nothing in the ad that refers specifically to Christianity at all.

As an aside, if you are a Christian, you believe in only one possible god of all the documented gods (God, Allah, Shiva, Zeus, Odin, Ra, ...). Atheists just believe in one less god than you do.
 

Democritus - welcome to the cafe.  I mostly agree with you, though my experience of the Divine probably puts a bit of a different twist on your ideas.  And yes, I know a bunch of bible stories, but my experience of church has included readings by various others - from other faiths, and also no faith experience.  We have learned from all of them.  Now, my background has framed it in a Jesus perspective, but many of us have railed against conservative Christian viewpoints too ( see the flat spot on my forehead?).  (oh, and there are some really cool friends here who are conservative Christian of one sort or another)

Add your views to the mix, and it becomes part of our journey of understanding, My journey still includes something divine, though not oppressive.  Maybe my views, and those of other WC'rs will give you stuff to think about too.

Hi Democritus: Wasn't the ancient Democritus sort of a spiritual philosopher? All I remember about him is that he taught that atoms were the smallest buiding blocks of matter—two thousand years before modern science discovered atoms!

Spiritual but not religious, eh, like many people today.

"To be playful is not to be trivial or frivolous, or to act as if nothing of consequence will happen. On the contrary, when we are playful with one another, we relate as free persons, and the relationship is open to surprise; _everything_ that happens is of consequence, for seriousness is a dread of the unpredictable outcome of open possibility. To be serious is to press for a specified conclusion. To be playful is to allow for unlimited possibility."

--James Carse
 

Bless these groups for encouraging others to, as I've written before, make their own ads. Just imagine:


Visnu is watching, look busy.
 

God loves homosexuals. And heterosexuals. And dog-lovers.
 

All Hail Discordia!
 

Your God doesn't exist. And exists. And both exists and doesn't exist. So have a good time.
 

Wotan dug out his own eye and hung himself from a tree for YOU.
 

Hoka Hey! Everything came out of a clam!
 

The Bible is very sexy pornography. Read it and GET IT ON.
 

Cthulhu is coming! Say your prayers.

 
Who is the Master who makes the grass green?

Again, I thank them for the encouragement and the willingness to play,

Inannawhimsey

Those people probably felt sorry for you that you had to manifest an imaginary friend in order to cope with your problems.  I wouldn't worry about them.

Atheisto - I think you might have crossed the line this time. Let's try to keep it constructive. This is, after all, supposed to be a safe place to discuss how we feel.

Hmm, maybe you have a point there.

You must admit, however, that you are at times a little less than tactful yourself?

I personally think you maybe went a little far with someone who has yet to provoke you. You could have been kind and perhaps helped elisabeth understand how what she said made you feel, but instead you attacked back. I don't think that's an acceptable or helpful approach, personally. You have your right to disagree, but I implore you - make us understand. Don't just attack.

I'd like to say...

Look at what happens when we assume things: Atheisto's "imaginary friend", chansen's "Writing that you 'feel sorry' for atheists" and so forth...

We abrogate responsibility for our personal B.S. (belief system) and the feelings that arise from them. We say "My concept exists, so I am not responsible for it..." Pleh to that thinking, I say :3

Elisabeth, I've felt sorry as well -- sorry when I see people not able to believe something that I think is pretty keen, sorry for myself when I can't believe in something like sombunall versions of G_d (because it would be SO easy), sorry for people when I see them not able to see past their own B.S., sorry when I'm feeling all hot n transcendent and on a "Hey, everyone should be feeling this way..." kick.

But I've got to be careful not to assume how others are feeling or processing their experiences. Just like I can't assume that just because someone is a Christian, they are happy (just look at Mom Teresa) or just because someone doesn't believe in a G_d doesn't mean that they are an 'atheist' and so on :3

I think the ad is good -- especially when all involved DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY. Those that do (the ones that say G_d doesn't exist and that G_d does exist) can go play in their own little corners while the rest of us, the ones who know what's going on, can have fun with it :3

(Part of me would love to see Sophisticated Realism being taught in schools...then at least we'd all be in some sort of control of our fictions)

Onward the imagination,

Inannawhimsey

Eurika!  The reason people can't get along is because of assertations of superiority!!  Both from the Theist and Atheist blocs.

So lets treat each other like equals, and not stereotype shall we?

As-Salaamu Alaikum

-Omni

Welcome Chansen

Oh dear!  reading the bible from page 1 to last page is painful!!  just wait until the 'begats', and then there are the brain twisters that are so out of context without the historical stuff, you'll run far far away.   It was written by a whole bunch of people at different times in history, in several different styles, including simple historical records.  Not made for cover to cover reading.  Its more like a compilation of stuff that describes the history of the Jews as they came to understand the Divine.  

Better to try it with some sort of study book - I can't name one, but lots of people here can (consider a few sources - because liberal & conservative readings are wildly differernt).   And then there is the idea that I grew up with that, we read it in pieces & parts over the years with exploration happening alongside.    

amen

Hi Inanna:

You shouldn't abreviate belief system as B.S. It always makes me think of that other B.S.

I agree, of course, that belief systems are part of our illusiory world of concepts, also known as "Maia" in the Far East.

To me, however, the world of concepts is not an illusion but a creation, which means much the same, but "creation" sounds so much nicer and more positive than "B.S." or "illusion," doesn't it?

Your B.S. Artist,

Arminius

..and their religion had diddly squat to do with those advancements they brought about.

That depends entirely on what you mean by spiritual. I wouldn't define myself as spiritual, no, in the sense that I don't believe there is such a thing as a soul or the supernatural. Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great if I could live forever or if I had magical powers or things along those lines, but the likelihood of those things being true is, in my view, so infinitesimally small that it would be ridiculous to live my life as if they were true. I live my life in the virtual certainty that its over when I die and I need to get all I can out of the life I have. I try to live my life the way I think would make the world the best possible place if everyone acted the same way. Note the word 'possible', I try to have very realistic expectations about what human beings are actually like and what we are capable of, the good and the bad.

Atheisto,  I agree that that their religion had diddly squat to do with their bringing about of those advancements.  That was kind of my point.  Just because I allow faith to inform my being it does not mean I am devoid of rational thought, analytical ability or scientific insight.

Where the Athiest Bus people have a good point is when religion spends its time burning scientists at the stake.  I agree, and also want to point out that enlightened religious folks don't do that kind of stuff.  In fact, enlightened religious folks are so ticked off at the burning folks that they make ads and websites like this one.

I think we can all agree on that.  (Except possibly the folks I just called un-enlightened.)

Hmm...I find your choice of words somewhat confusing. 'Divine' typically refers to something that came from a god. But you then say that you don't believe in gods, so I think you are misusing the word divine. I think sticking with the use of the word spiritual or perhaps sacred or awe-inspiring or something along those lines might be more clear.

I believe - atheists don't.  Does it really matter? It's more important that we respect each other's opinions and keep the lines of communication open.

Does it matter?  Yes it does matter. Acting on belief versus acting on objective, rational knowledge are two very different things.

How can an opinion based on personal belief be respected if the same standards don't apply? 

And why should I respect any actions you might take based on a faith-based, personal opinion?  There'd be no integrity to anything.

LL&P

Spock

Saul_now_Paul wrote:

 Hi Spockis53,

 

You say:

 

Does it matter?  Yes it does matter. Acting on belief versus acting on objective, rational knowledge are two very different things.

 

How can an opinion based on personal belief be respected if the same standards don't apply? 

 

You have an opinion based on personal belief (as you have yet to meet God) that God does not exist.

 

I, as do millions of other people, have knowledge that God exists as I have met him and seen him work in my life and the lives of people around me in supernatural ways. So we tend to humour you, by allowing (to your face) that there may not be a God, when the truth is that you are just ignorant of the fact.

 

I know there is a God, and you at best can only be pretty sure I am wrong.

Hi Old Buddy,

I've missed you. I'm glad we worship the same loving God. I'm not pretty sure you are right. I know in my "KNOWER" that you are right.

People require proof from me about my God. All I can say is that I have been given absolute proof and that is all I need!!

Be Blessed,

IB