If this group truly consists of "intellectuals",  they would welcome the opportunity for the interplay of ideas.  "Critique" and "speaking up" I think are fine (and why don't more parishioners have anything to say about the sermon?) but "there will be trouble" in this context seems incompatible with being an "intellectual".  It would seem that they have problems with the Lay Minister's interpretation. Well, sometimes so do I. And they are eager to make their views own known. So use that as a starting point to suggest some kind of venue (bible study?) where the points of contention can be dialogued, especially considering this relationship seems to be a continuing one.  But invite others as well - it's not just the opinions of 3 that are important. In fact, all churches should have some sort of venue where it is possible to debate Sunday's sermon, which is really just a starting point for discussion, at least in the UCC.

As I've mentioned on WC before, this is quite common in UU congregations. In mine, we do it after the service (when appropriate), but there may still be a few churches out there who actually have the discussion as part of the service. I'd love to see it in a UCC context, but have never seen it done.

Mendalla

Bigger issue.  THe congregation need to be told about the ethics of having made a group decision.  Once the decision is made the congregation has a duty to give it a chance.  Just because I disagree does not give me the right to undercut the relationship from day one.

If it was honestly felt that this person would not be an acceptable match to the congregation then they made the wrong choice in proceeding with the appointment (LPMs are appointed not called).  IF teh search committee was so off on what would be acceptable then the congregation needs to do a better job of selecting committee members. 

Hi crazyheart:

Rational intellectuality is generally overrated, in congregations as in society at large. Those who are truly intelligent know what really matters cannot be know intellectually, that spiritual "knowing" is a feeling that is intuitive and comes from the "heart," not from the rational intellect or "mind." We need to harmonize the heart with the mind, and put the mind in service of the heart.

Heh, that was exactly what I was thinking.

I always say to people "I'm sure you would do better, here go for it, please!"  Saldy no one ever takes me up on that offer.

LB

A successful person is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks that others throw at him or her.     David Brinkley

I sometimes feel sorry for my congregation that they have to listen to me week after week and wish churches in the area could do more pulpit exchanges once in a while. 

As for the topic of the post I agree with Gord that it sounds like this may not be a good match.  If there is a desire for an emphasis on intellectual preaching (more of a teaching style of sermon) then likely a minister with more education would meet their needs than a designated lay minister.  I know of some city churches who will only call clergy who possess a doctorate because intellectual sermons (intellectual is different than intelligent - I`m not particularly intellectual) are a priority. 

Too bad if this is the case here but not uncommon - bad matches are made routinely in pastoral relationships mainly due to what Gord said.  Often times the search committee do not represent the wants and needs of the wider congregation but ultimately it`s the congregations responsibility to appoint ones that do.

CH,

The comment in the OP could mean just 3 people.  IT could also mean that those 3 are being  blamed for what the congregation as a whole does.  If the former, then the 3 individuals need to be reminded that they are not the congregation.  If the latter then maybe it isn't a good match.

However, the real point, is that once the decision ahs been made by a vote then you have agree to abide by it for a while at least.  It is part of the ethics of being in community

crazyheart wrote: "I guess my concern is how he expressed it on the 1st Sunday and not just to one person but to a group of people."

EZ Answer: This is a common story that every minister, ordered or lay, will encounter.  Does the minister know how to respond?  How not to respond?  Did the minister pay attention in class when this type of situation was explored?  Or was the situation not addressed in the seminary or training program?  Will the upcoming year's three weeks and $1,200 continuing education allowance be used to learn how to respond?  Will the minister debrief this experience with their support group or spiritual mentor? Or have they not put these resources in place, employing a reactive rather than a proactive self-care program?

Regarding the Beamsville congregation: Does the minister know how to respond?  How not to respond?  Did the minister pay attention in class when this type of situation was explored?  Or was the situation not addressed in the seminary or training program?  Will the upcoming year's three weeks and $1,200 continuing education allowance be used to learn how to respond?  Will the minister debrief this experience with their support group or spiritual mentor?  Or have they not put these resources in place, employing a reactive rather than a proactive self-care program?

Good analysis, LB.

Hadn't thought of it that way either, yes, the person who approaches the minister to build a relationship on the first week or so...full of "helpful" information.

or, the lesser known fly-by's that just are negative beings ...always talking about how the "other" people will not like that...as if the comment they made wasnt of the same nature.

Arminius

I would suggest that artesian wells are a not-bore!

May just have to pop into Beamsville for a visit the next time we are down visiting in Grimsby.

IT

Russ

But people around here are boring artesian wells!

I myself prefer to draw from a fresh wellspring.

"I will give those who are thirsty of the fountain of the water of life freely."

-Rev 21:6

So would that be considered a Freudian slip or a sweaty pun?

a clarification, crazyheart -- was the minister present when this comment was made?  I wasn't sure from what you said.  thanks!

Do you know Art?

Art Who?

Art  Eesian

Oh, yes, I know art Easian well.!

(Sorry.)

Let's call it posting in the wee hours of the morning with not enough coffee and trying to keep a fun loving dog and her equally hyper brother quiet, shall we

LB - one spelling error in two years and somebody has to notice

Every few months a plague descends on Usenet called the spelling flame.      Usenet FAQ

Where are my manners these days!  I have been remiss in thanking Mr. EZed for the many compliments.

GordW wrote: "EZ, did you learn how to quote from newspaper writers by chance?"

EZ Answer: Would you prefer an anagram instead?

"To EZ, my unholy word quoter habit is a crowd preference in pews."