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crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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What Would Jesus Cut?

This was a question on CNN this morning. "What would Jesus cut if he were in charge of the US budget?" A minister argues that "budgets" are moral issues and as people of faith , it is our opportunity to do the moral thing. Look after the "least of these" and stop pandering to the wealthy.

 

What do you think? Should polititions exercise their moral stance rather than their political stance. Should they both be the same thing? 

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Tao's picture

Tao

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An interesting Topic CH... I will bump it for new searches.

Neo's picture

Neo

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The tax breaks for the rich.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Let's hope the viewers take him seriously.

I also saw a spot last night on CNN interviewing two young upper middle class college women who spent something like 3 weeks touring impoverished neighbourhoods and getting to know the locals...to draw attention to the issues. They were enthusiastically calling it the best 3 weeks of their lives (which is insulting to the people who live it all the time). The part that made my jaw drop was that they called it  "The Poverty Tour"...I found that insulting...and they are calling for others to support it. They talked about it like it was an epiphany that others lived with so little...which I suppose for these two it was. Human beings have a duty to help people who are poor and marginalized, through many different means, including raising taxes on the rich---but it is unfortunate when people don't realize they are exploiting others in their efforts to help them.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Neo wrote:
The tax breaks for the rich.

 

Yes!

BetteTheRed's picture

BetteTheRed

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Jesus' tax policy would close loopholes used by Corporations to avoid paying their fair share.

GO_3838's picture

GO_3838

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I think Jesus would reorganize the world's food infrastructure.

Jesus had so many teachings and parables that revolve around food and agriculture.

Jesus would enact laws for people to buy predominantly local foods. That is good for local economies. That cuts down on fuels used for transportation. That helps us all to be better stewards of the earth.

Jesus would enact laws for us to use land to grow nourishing food. There is so much good land that's used to grow corn and soybeans not for food, but to produce high calorie fructose syrup for soft drinks. There's lots of good land used to produce chocolate, coffee, sugar, and alcohol. I'm not saying we should ban these products, but we should produce a lot less of them. Wouldn't we all be a lot better off if we ate more local produce and consumed a lot less sugar, chocolate, coffee, and alcohol?

The United States has laws that reward large industrial-style farms for using unsustainable and harmful farming techniques. Localized, small family farms that are 200 years old are going out of business every day in the US. I think Jesus would enact laws to stop the big business farms from squeezing out the little guys, especially when the little guys tend to have better quality food and tend to use sustainable farming techniques.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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I'd like to think Jesus' love and wisdom would cut through all the corporate greed, and hate mongering throughout the world--and that he would cut the production of harmful and dangerous forms of energy, and weapons. As far as oil production, and needless mining of natural resources...I also think Jesus would say: "Hey, cut it out!"

 

RevMatt's picture

RevMatt

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Don't forget the obscene military budget.

John Wilson's picture

John Wilson

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"It's not envy, mind you, it's their morals  - its how  they got /are staying rich. " 

Baloney. It's envy. Of every one richer and more materially successful than you.

Like Graham I've met/known many rich. Unlike Graham I have respect for their

energy, dogged pursuit of their goal (Success , money a success-indicater --)

--their talent, brains,  understanding of what they are doing, et cetera.

"I judge their morals,,,"

Here's a lottery ticket. You don't want to win?

Oh. If YOU were rich, it would be different.

Yeah.

I WANT a nation  of  rich  people    (I'm  as    poor  as a church-mouse, snug as a bug in a rug...)

(Hmmm...smug as a thug with a jug?

A lug with a mug like a pug?

ok, ok......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

revjohn's picture

revjohn

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Hi crazyheart,

 

crazyheart wrote:

Should politicians exercise their moral stance rather than their political stance. 

 

I don't know.  Their current moral stance looks amoral to me.

 

As to what would Jesus do.  I think he'd quiz them on Luke 14:  28-32 particularly the parts they don't seem to comprehend.  Maybe a question or two about Luke 12:  13-21 and a little bit of Isaiah 1:  17.

 

Then he'd stare at them and tell them to go and do likewise.

 

I think he'd braid a whip and make note of where some lobbyists stood.

 

Either that or he'd smile, shake his head and say render unto Caesar the things of Caesar and unto God the things of God.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

BetteTheRed's picture

BetteTheRed

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GO_3838 wrote:

...There's lots of good land used to produce chocolate, coffee, sugar, and alcohol. I'm not saying we should ban these products, but we should produce a lot less of them. Wouldn't we all be a lot better off if we ate more local produce and consumed a lot less sugar, chocolate, coffee, and alcohol?...

 

You had me until you mentioned one of the basic food groups. Life would not be quite so worth living in the absence of (fairly large quantities of) dark chocolate. wink

John Wilson's picture

John Wilson

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I think Jesus would reorganize the world's food infrastructure.

 

He already did. 'Remember the poor in your neighbourhood, there will always be some around, give   to    Caesar what he's due, Drink a lot of wine, think of me when you do, life's not just bread y'know' ...

 

 

 

John Wilson's picture

John Wilson

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revjohn wrote:

politicians,,, 

 

 

I don't know.  Their current moral stance looks amoral to me.

 

As to what would Jesus do.  I think he'd quiz them on Luke 14:  28-32 particularly the parts they don't seem to comprehend.  Maybe a question or two about Luke 12:  13-21 and a little bit of Isaiah 1:  17.

 

Then he'd stare at them and tell them to go and do likewise.

 

I think he'd braid a whip and make note of where some lobbyists stood.

 

Either that or he'd smile, shake his head and say render unto Caesar the things of Caesar and unto God the things of God.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

A great post.

...uh...Grace I've been given, peace I have so....

Backatcha smiley

(Come ON everybody. Look 'em up! All of 'em! smiley)

 

1

 

seeler's picture

seeler

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The two things I think Jesus would hope to influence people to cut have already been mentioned:

tax breaks for the rich and especially for the very very rich

spending on military

 

If the government was successful in these two things, I don't think they would have to worry too much about the deficit and they could then spend more on social and environmental projects.  

jon71's picture

jon71

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I think that politicians should not intermingle church and state but that in no way shape or form would stop voters from electing people who show real Christian values, and not just rhetoric. I agree with the consensus that a tax code geared for the most wealthy and powerful would have to go as well as military excess.

trishcuit's picture

trishcuit

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can't seem to embed the video but here are the lyrics to a very eye-opening song.  I will add the link to the video.

 

My  Jesus by Todd Agnew

 


Which Jesus do you follow?
Which Jesus do you serve?
If Ephesians says to imitate Christ
Then why do you look so much like the world?

Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the arrogant
So which one do you want to be?

Blessed are the poor in spirit
Or do we pray to be blessed with the wealth of this land
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst for righteousness
Or do we ache for another taste of this world of shifting sand

Cause my Jesus bled and died for my sins
He spent His time with thieves and sluts and liars
He loved the poor and accosted the rich
So which one do you want to be?

Who is this that you follow
This picture of the American dream
If Jesus was here would you walk right by on the other side or fall down and worship at His holy feet

Pretty blue eyes and curly brown hair and a clear complexion
Is how you see Him as He dies for Your sins
But the Word says He was battered and scarred
Or did you miss that part
Sometimes I doubt we'd recognize Him

Cause my Jesus bled and died
He spent His time with thieves and the least of these
He loved the poor and accosted the comfortable
So which one do you want to be?

Cause my Jesus would never be accepted in my church
The blood and dirt on His feet might stain the carpet
But He reaches for the hurting and despises the proud
I think He'd prefer Beale St. to the stained glass crowd
And I know that He can hear me if I cry out loud

I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!

Not a posterchild for American prosperity, but like my Jesus
You see I'm tired of living for success and popularity
I want to be like my Jesus but I'm not sure what that means to be like You Jesus
Cause You said to live like You, love like You but then You died for me
Can I be like You Jesus?
I want to be like you Jesus!
I want to be like my Jesus!

trishcuit's picture

trishcuit

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very thought provoking song.  Here is the video to the lyrics.  

 

See video

 

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

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What would Jesus cut?

 

Well, that depends.  Whose Jesus?  A Tea Partier's Jesus would have different things to say than what a Green's Jesus would.  Prayer yields different results to people of different political persuasions, no?

trishcuit's picture

trishcuit

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Azdgari wrote:

What would Jesus cut?

 

Well, that depends.  Whose Jesus?  A Tea Partier's Jesus would have different things to say than what a Green's Jesus would.  Prayer yields different results to people of different political persuasions, no?

 

excellent point.

Berserk's picture

Berserk

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The consensus on US cable news programs is that the Tea Party is the real winner in this debacle.  They keyed off outrage at  Obama's profligate bail-outs, organized, and took the House away from Democratic control.  Then they voted their conscience and their principles and won the game of chicken with the Democrats.  It could be argued that the Boston Tea Party used the same kind of mayhem that Jesus employed in the cleansing of the Temple.  There's just one subtle difference: Jesus was motivated by a burning concern for justice for the poor and the Tea Party is motivated by a desire for fiscal responsibility.   Duh!

Witch's picture

Witch

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Happy Genius wrote:

I WANT a nation  of  rich  people

 

I want a nation of rich people, who pay their fair share of taxes.

Witch's picture

Witch

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Berserk wrote:
...and the Tea Party is motivated by a desire for fiscal responsibility.

 

A desire for "fiscal responsibility", combined with patent ignorance of what that phrase means...

 

A dangerous combination.

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Azdgari wrote:

What would Jesus cut?

 

Well, that depends.  Whose Jesus?  A Tea Partier's Jesus would have different things to say than what a Green's Jesus would.  Prayer yields different results to people of different political persuasions, no?

 

*chuckle*  Just imagine what all those Ids of the Krell in that fine movie "Forbidden Planet" must've looked like and acted like?

 

Just like 6 billion different religions, one for each inhabitant...invisible, can affect the material world, and DEADLY, bay-bee :3

 

So what's your Id/religion gonna be, Adzgari?

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

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^^ One with a god just like me, Inanna.  Obviously. ;)

 

If I missed another reference in that question, then it's probably because I've never seen "Forbideen Planet".

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

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Witch wrote:

Berserk wrote:
...and the Tea Party is motivated by a desire for fiscal responsibility.

 A desire for "fiscal responsibility", combined with patent ignorance of what that phrase means...

 

A dangerous combination.

I wonder...is war fiscally responsible?

 

How about two wars?

 

Is there a number of wars past which it becomes fiscally responsible to engage in them?

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Azdgari wrote:

^^ One with a god just like me, Inanna.  Obviously. ;)

 

If I missed another reference in that question, then it's probably because I've never seen "Forbideen Planet".

 

And you call yourself a SENTIENT???!!!*  Huff, get thee to a watching device and go watch "Forbidden Planet".  It's got a young Leslie Nielsen in it.

 

You'll up your pop-culture by at least 50 Warhols.

 

* I know, I know, you aren't to blame -- your Christian fellows were probably just trying to protect you from TEH EVILLLL DEMONZ!!!!

Neo's picture

Neo

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jon71 wrote:

I think that politicians should not intermingle church and state but that in no way shape or form would stop voters from electing people who show real Christian values, and not just rhetoric. I agree with the consensus that a tax code geared for the most wealthy and powerful would have to go as well as military excess.

Jon, While I agree with you wholeheartedly that "church" and state should not be mixed, I do see the need for "spiritual" influences and state to be mixed. There shouldn't be any activity of ours, including politics, that isn't spiritual in nature.

A wise person once said "to err is human, to share is divine". I believe that in our heart of hearts we are spiritual to our very core. We should, therefore, live and act that way in everything we do. Especially when it comes to the politics of economics.

Cheers,
Neo

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Neo wrote:
jon71 wrote:

I think that politicians should not intermingle church and state but that in no way shape or form would stop voters from electing people who show real Christian values, and not just rhetoric. I agree with the consensus that a tax code geared for the most wealthy and powerful would have to go as well as military excess.

Jon, While I agree with you wholeheartedly that "church" and state should not be mixed, I do see the need for "spiritual" influences and state to be mixed. There shouldn't be any activity of ours, including politics, that isn't spiritual in nature.

A wise person once said "to err is human, to share is divine". I believe that in our heart of hearts we are spiritual to our very core. We should, therefore, live and act that way in everything we do. Especially when it comes to the politics of economics.

Cheers, Neo

 

Here's the challenge -- those who are Spiritual aboot eating meat living in peace with those who are Spiritual aboot eating only fresh veg OR those who are Spiritual aboot industrial decay being able to live in peace with those who are Spiritual aboot 'virgin' wilderness.

 

Let's hope that this Universal Human Rights becomes Spiritual for everyone :3

Neo's picture

Neo

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Inanna, sharing the resources of the world is not some individual choice like being a vegetarian or not. Our western society and our so called "free" market system is built on greed. The rich parades their wealth in front of the poor, and in many cases the poor die right before our very eyes, which have been blinded by self interest. To share is divine.

Neo's picture

Neo

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Inanna, I'd like to add another point to the above. Not only is sharing a divine act and therefore spiritual in nature, but a truly spiritual person would always recognize and respect one's individual right to be a meat eater or a vegetarian.

Nothing, in my humble opinion, warrants starving to death or living in abject poverty. Everyone deserves the right to live with respect and dignity. And, I should add, I don't believe poverty has anything to do karma or personal choice. It's a crime against nature, made worse when it occurs in a world of plenty.

Ok, I'll step down from my soap box now.

Cheers.

GordW's picture

GordW

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IMO the original question, like the WWJD merchandise so popular a few years back, is flawed.

 

THe question is not what would Jesus Do/Cut/Love/HAte.  THat is a way to escape the reality that it is nopt Jesus making the choices.  It is us.  THe question needs to be what would Jesus HAVE US Do/Love/Cut/Hate.....

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

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You're right, Gord.  But at the same time, one has to look at the effectiveness of the slogan.  There's a tradeoff between effectiveness and pertinence.  Jesus is worshipped; the suggestion that he would engage in evil acts is more jarring than the application of "his" judgment to our own actions, since the latter presumably already happens in peoples' minds.

Dcn. Jae's picture

Dcn. Jae

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GordW wrote:

 

THe question is not what would Jesus Do/Cut/Love/HAte.  THat is a way to escape the reality that it is nopt Jesus making the choices.  It is us.  THe question needs to be what would Jesus HAVE US Do/Love/Cut/Hate.....

 

You make a good point here Gord. I think he would have us first look after the poor and the oppressed in society. I think he would have us put people before giant nameless corporations. I think he would have us love mercy, seek justice, and walk humbly with our God.

Neo's picture

Neo

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GordW wrote:

IMO the original question, like the WWJD merchandise so popular a few years back, is flawed.

 

THe question is not what would Jesus Do/Cut/Love/HAte.  THat is a way to escape the reality that it is nopt Jesus making the choices.  It is us.  THe question needs to be what would Jesus HAVE US Do/Love/Cut/Hate.....

 

Exactly GordW, I suspect that Jesus is not going to do anything to fix our world, short of showing us a way out of this quagmire.

This is my own belief, of course, I know others think differently on this subject. But I believe that we have the means of fixing the problems of poverty and war ourselves and no one, not even the Christ Himself, is going to simply fix it for us. We got ourselves into this mess, we need to prove ourselves worthy of our future and get ourselves out of it.

 

But despite of my beliefs, I don't believe that we are totally alone with in our plight. Hopefully some amazing event will reveal the divinity within ourselves and in every human on this planet. Perhaps then will we truly understand, maybe for the first time in this history of the human race, that we our One Humanity and that to share within that Humanity is truly divine.

 

When you think of it, most of us would share to the bitter end every thing we had if someone in our immediate family were starving to death. We just to expand our definition of what family means so as to include the whole world.

 

Sound impossible?

 

"War is over, if you want it" - John Lennon

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Here's an interesting find, where you get to try out being a Survivor, a Journalist or Aid Worker in the Haiti Earthquake.  I learned some things from this.  Helping people is complicated :3  Please read everything, you might miss the caveats and disclosures :3

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Here's Jesus on His future world tour.

 

Really good questions to riff on as well in that thread :3

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