This is not to derail Morning Calm or Crazy Hearts thread , but reading them brought back a not so good memory, here is why, about 9 yrs ago in a RC Church while I was speaking with a priest , he asked me my family make up, so I told Him, my first marriage, her second, but we been married by that time 21 yrs, also told him we were married in a Christian church, she had a legal divorce from the courts, but never had her marriage annulled by a Arch Bishop of the RC Church , the church she was married in her first time., she also have 2 kids from her first marriage, I asked him, "how does one annul 2 kids?" he never answered me except to say , we are living in continual sin we are in danger of hell and that we are not allowed to accept communion , we can how ever go up the front, cross our arms and receive a blessing , but communion, we are not allowed.
Who can receieve communion?
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trishcuit
you can, just not in a
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:25
you can, just not in a Catholic church.
The Catholic church loans itself too much leverage when they say that if something is not cleared with THEM then it isn't so. It's between you guys and God.
Mendalla
In my experience, a lot of
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:32
In my experience, a lot of United Churches (certainly the two that I've been to in recent years) have open tables for Communion so you'd be quite welcome to receive it there, though I know the UCCan isn't your speed theologically.
The RC practice is exclusionary but I'm not RC and likely would never go to Mass unless I'm attending a wedding or funeral, in which case I'd accept and follow their practice. It's only happened once in the last decade, though, when a friend's son married a Catholic and converted (the family were nominally Lutheran, IIRC, but weren't practicing). It was rather a funny sight, actually, since pretty much the entire bride's side got up to receive Communion but most of the groom's side remained seated.
Mendalla
trishcuit
Mendalla wrote: In my
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:38
In my experience, a lot of United Churches (certainly the two that I've been to in recent years) have open tables for Communion so you'd be quite welcome to receive it there, though I know the UCCan isn't your speed theologically.
The RC practice is exclusionary but I'm not RC and likely would never go to Mass unless I'm attending a wedding or funeral, in which case I'd accept and follow their practice. It's only happened once in the last decade, though, when a friend's son married a Catholic and converted (the family were nominally Lutheran, IIRC, but weren't practicing). It was rather a funny sight, actually, since pretty much the entire bride's side got up to receive Communion but most of the groom's side remained seated.
Mendalla
Oh to be a fly on the wall!
I was at my Grandpa's funeral about 8 1/2 yearsago. He was a Knights of Columbus member and quite high up in it. Needless to say, they don't get much more Catholic than that. I was raised and confirmed a Catholic by my parents but as a adult attend a non-denominational church. I call myself an 'Escaped Catholic". Come Communion though, I pondered my relationship wiht God and then went right on up to recieve the wafer. After all, nothing ever official was declared in the Catholic church about me personally no longer being a member.
blackbelt
hahaha, "Escape
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:41
hahaha, "Escape Catholic"
love it
trishcuit
AAAANNNNYYYYWHOOOO.... In
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:48
AAAANNNNYYYYWHOOOO....
In our own church we abide by the Scripture:
"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."
[1Cor 11:23-29)
meaning you must be saved first.
Happy Retiree
You might want to try an
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:50
You might want to try an Anglican Church. The invitation to Communion is "all baptized persons regardless of denomination are welcome at the table". Still somewhat exclusive and so some Anglican clergy get around it by saying, "If it is your custom to receive commnion in your church..."
Happy Retiree
You might want to try an
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:50
You might want to try an Anglican Church. The invitation to Communion is "all baptized persons regardless of denomination are welcome at the table". Still somewhat exclusive and so some Anglican clergy get around it by saying, "If it is your custom to receive commnion in your church..."
SG
blackbelt, The RC
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:52
blackbelt,
The RC Church annuls many marriages where children have been produced. Adultery is one of the annulment reasons.
The RC position is that a remarriage without an annulment of the first one means living in sin.
I disagree, but I also am not Roman Catholic and I do not think living together is a sinful state any way. I respect their right to self-determination and value religious freedom.
Roman Catholicism believes things about the Eucharist that others may not agree with. For instance, they believe in transubstantiation. They also are not alone in a closed communion (Some Lutherans practice closed communions). This is because they have instruction (cathecism). Some denominations have a close communion, no instruction, but must be known. Some have an open communion, but mean only open to baptized believers. Some mean open, but only to adults. Some mean open to anyone.
Personally, I believe in open to anyone. That is my opinion and my theology. I understand it varies for folks.
chansen
trishcuit wrote: meaning
Posted on: 02/21/2012 13:55
meaning you must be saved first.
I assume that, even if I'm not "saved", I can receive communion if I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
blackbelt
trishcuit
Posted on: 02/21/2012 14:01
AAAANNNNYYYYWHOOOO....
In our own church we abide by the Scripture:
"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."
[1Cor 11:23-29)
meaning you must be saved first.
I guess the next question would be, What does it mean to be saved?
blackbelt
SG
Posted on: 02/21/2012 14:11
blackbelt,
The RC Church annuls many marriages where children have been produced. Adultery is one of the annulment reasons.
yes i understand that, my question was, if a marriage took place in the RC Church, and the legal marriage produced 2 kids, how does one annul 2 living beings ?, they did happen
Annulment
Unlike divorce, it is usually retroactive, meaning that an annulled marriage is considered to be invalid from the beginning almost as if it had never taken place
my point is, the marriage did take place and did break down , but in the RC choice of wording is trying to go around it
airclean33
Hi Blackbelt -- Why not ask
Posted on: 02/21/2012 14:42
Hi Blackbelt -- Why not ask how many wifes a man is allowed? Acording to the word of God? The Jews I believe, can divorce a wife by telling her three times , and hand her a note. God Bless Brother.---------airclean33
SG
blackbelt, I get your
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:15
blackbelt,
I get your train of thought,I would tend to agree, but that is not how the RC church sees it.
The RC church sees marriage as a binding and lifelong contract. So, they also have things that make the contract not binding and lifelong, like adultery or even that a couple did not think enough before marrying...
The church's stance is that the children are legitimate, because no matter what the church does or does not do, the parents had a marriage that was civil and legal.
The children exist and they are not made illegitimate when the divorce is civil and legal. So, the church nullifying the contract does so in a religious way and is not that different than when you divorce in a civil and legal manner...
Like I said, I do not agree with the RC stance, but I do not have to because I am not Catholic. I can choose to seek to understand how they feel they have faithfully arrived at that stance. I have no problem giving them the freedom to decide their stance on faith matters, as I want the freedom for my denomination to determine theirs.
blackbelt
SG I totally agree
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:19
SG
I totally agree with what you said, personally I just find it so disingenuous on the RC Church
seeler
While the official position
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:20
While the official position of the RC church might be to refuse non-Catholics, and others that they hold to be 'outside the church', communion, not all RC priests and congregations think that way.
If I am in an RC church (which usually means for a funeral) and I feel the call to take communion, I go forward to the priest or server. I have never been refused. One of the priests in this city knows me quite well from both of us serving on ecumenical events. I know he recognizes me and knows I am a Protestant when he serves me communion.
At my brother-in-law's funeral in a little country RC church where everybody knows all about everybody, and I had talked to the priest in planning the service (who would read and what Biblical translation, etc) so again he knew that many of the family were not RC, he not only served us communion, but he served us first, coming down to the front pew where we were sitting and offering it to each of us and then, when he had the chief mourners served, he invited the congregation to come forward with no mention that they had to be good RC members.
blackbelt
airclean33 wrote: Hi
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:20
Hi Blackbelt -- Why not ask how many wifes a man is allowed? Acording to the word of God? The Jews I believe, can divorce a wife by telling her three times , and hand her a note. God Bless Brother.---------airclean33
I dont know about you brother but my hands are full with the one I have, :)
seeler
In the UCC I attend the
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:24
In the UCC I attend the invitation is something like this: This is not the table of this congregation; this is not the table of the United Church of Canada; this IS the Lord's table and all are welcome.
No mention of requirements; no mention of having to be baptised; no mention of age (Sunday School children return to the sanctuary from their classes to take part in communion). Some people choose not to receive - that is their decision. Perhaps some do so because they have some unresolved issues with God or with their 'brother'. That is between them and God, and not to be determined by the church.
blackbelt
seeler wrote: While the
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:27
While the official position of the RC church might be to refuse non-Catholics, and others that they hold to be 'outside the church', communion, not all RC priests and congregations think that way.
If I am in an RC church (which usually means for a funeral) and I feel the call to take communion, I go forward to the priest or server. I have never been refused. One of the priests in this city knows me quite well from both of us serving on ecumenical events. I know he recognizes me and knows I am a Protestant when he serves me communion.
At my brother-in-law's funeral in a little country RC church where everybody knows all about everybody, and I had talked to the priest in planning the service (who would read and what Biblical translation, etc) so again he knew that many of the family were not RC, he not only served us communion, but he served us first, coming down to the front pew where we were sitting and offering it to each of us and then, when he had the chief mourners served, he invited the congregation to come forward with no mention that they had to be good RC members.
Yes I agree , i have met a few good preists also, at my brothers funeral last yrs, juring the sermon the preist said, its not about the Church or the Pope, ist about Jesus crucified
amen
chansen
airclean33 wrote: Hi
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:34
Hi Blackbelt -- Why not ask how many wifes a man is allowed? Acording to the word of God? The Jews I believe, can divorce a wife by telling her three times , and hand her a note. God Bless Brother.---------airclean33
Score one for the Jews.
blackbelt
chansen wrote: airclean33
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:37
Hi Blackbelt -- Why not ask how many wifes a man is allowed? Acording to the word of God? The Jews I believe, can divorce a wife by telling her three times , and hand her a note. God Bless Brother.---------airclean33
Score one for the Jews.
you mean 3
airclean33
Hi Blackbelt ---I believe the
Posted on: 02/21/2012 16:57
Hi Blackbelt ---I believe the RC church now , will serv you communion . As long as you'v been baptized. The wife thing, my son an I have had many a talk on and I do agree with you , one is enough. God Bless . airclean33.
MC jae
Blackbelt, you would be
Posted on: 02/21/2012 17:34
Blackbelt, you would be welcome to receive it in the FEBCC.
blackbelt
MorningCalm
Posted on: 02/21/2012 17:40
Blackbelt, you would be welcome to receive it in the FEBCC.
thanks I been ina penetcostle church for 8 ysr now
MC jae
blackbelt
Posted on: 02/21/2012 18:27
Blackbelt, you would be welcome to receive it in the FEBCC.
thanks I been in a penetcostle church for 8 ysr now
Wonderful. Glad to hear it.
Check out this quote I just found at a local Pentecostal church website. It is found in their "We Believe...." section at http://www.hpctoronto.com/our-faith.php
The website says (in plain white letters on a black background), "Jesus is coming again to gather all his Saints to Section 12 Eternal Condemnation."
He is? I don't think that's a common Pentecostal belief!
blackbelt
MorningCalm
Posted on: 02/21/2012 22:27
Blackbelt, you would be welcome to receive it in the FEBCC.
thanks I been in a penetcostle church for 8 ysr now
Wonderful. Glad to hear it.
Check out this quote I just found at a local Pentecostal church website. It is found in their "We Believe...." section at http://www.hpctoronto.com/our-faith.php
The website says (in plain white letters on a black background), "Jesus is coming again to gather all his Saints to Section 12 Eternal Condemnation."
He is? I don't think that's a common Pentecostal belief!
i believe Jesus is commimg back, but you have nuts in pentecostle gatherngs also , i knwo a few
chansen
Do you exist solely to give
Posted on: 02/21/2012 23:04
Do you exist solely to give people like me straight lines?
trishcuit
chansen wrote: trishcuit
Posted on: 02/22/2012 01:19
meaning you must be saved first.
I assume that, even if I'm not "saved", I can receive communion if I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
I saved a few bucks using coupons at Superstore last night too.
trishcuit
blackbelt wrote: trishcuit
Posted on: 02/22/2012 01:21
AAAANNNNYYYYWHOOOO....
In our own church we abide by the Scripture:
"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body."
[1Cor 11:23-29)
meaning you must be saved first.
I guess the next question would be, What does it mean to be saved?
(imagine Boston or New Yawk accent)
I'm getting verklept. discuss amongs yo-selves.
revjohn
Hi blackbelt, blackbelt
Posted on: 02/22/2012 14:26
Hi blackbelt,
Who can receieve communion?
House rules.
The only requirements to receive that I am aware of in the Bible are 1) that we receive in remembrance (focus on the life, death and resurrection of Chirst) and 2) that we not participate in an unworthy manner (make pigs of ourselves).
How point number 2) is dealt with is typically the most problematic and or offensive thing anyone will experience in worship.
To participate in an unworthy manner is believed by many to be eating and drinking damnation upon themselves (1 Corinthians 11: 29). The various interpretations of what it means to eat and drink damnation upon one's self, more often than not is a result of eisegesis than it is exegesis. 1 Corinthians 11 reveals the problem Paul was addressing if anyone cares to read more than just the 29th verse.
Some make "discerning the body" a matter of doctrine/belief. I have been questioned by elders who fenced the table in their worship to make certain I understood well enough for them to be comfortable letting me participate. I have never been barred from the table.
Although I know certain denominations (typically particular representatives of certain denominations) would not welcome me to sit at the table they preside over. I tend not to push it by not attending worship with those denominations or, if I am aware of it, those particular individuals within certain denominations.
I have only refused to participate in the sacrament one time and that was while I was studying. It was a personal decision of my own to withdraw from the sacrament, I was not forbidden participation.
I have never refused to serve any who wished to participate. We did have a very serious style mix-up with a Roman Catholic visitor that took some very concentrated pastoral care to smooth over (even innocent mistakes can have serious consequence).
Denominations and/or congregations may add additional criteria beyond the two Biblical ones mentioned above.
Grace and peace to you.
John
GordW
ANd lest we forget. A
Posted on: 02/22/2012 15:45
ANd lest we forget. A generation ago in most UCCan congregations children did not take part in communion. It was for confirmed members only (in theory, in practice this mean adults since nobody checked the membership status). ANd in our history is the idea of teh Communion Token that ensured only members in good standing would take communion.
WE are all growing in our own ways at our own speeds
somegalfromcan
GordW wrote: ANd lest we
Posted on: 02/22/2012 16:03
ANd lest we forget. A generation ago in most UCCan congregations children did not take part in communion. It was for confirmed members only (in theory, in practice this mean adults since nobody checked the membership status). ANd in our history is the idea of teh Communion Token that ensured only members in good standing would take communion.
WE are all growing in our own ways at our own speeds
I remember taking my first communion after the rules were changed. I remember my Sunday School teachers taking the time to teach us about what communion meant in the Sundays leading up to it. A week before we took our first communion, we shared in an Agape Meal which I remember as being particularly meaningful given what we had been learning. I felt proud the next week taking communion - I felt like I truly belonged.
SG
If we forget our own history,
Posted on: 02/22/2012 16:31
If we forget our own history, it can be easy to judge. If we remember our own history, perhaps that makes it harder.
Presbyterianism use of tokens was supported by Calvin, Knox...
Token use was common in the 19th century and then there were communion cards.
The UCC Basis of Union said one must profess faith and "be in obedience to His Law". What did that mean? Did it always mean what it means today?
I know that it means people were denied communion in their UCC congregations, whether people knew it or not, whetehr the powers that be knew it or not, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not.
Back in the day, nobody questioned the minister and nobody questioned what happened around them. A woman approaching 90 brought up during discussions of mariage policy that there was a man, very religious, played the church organ, always lived alone... and he never once took communion. Fell away from the local church in the 1980's when his congregation and GC seemed on different pages. Came out right before he died in 1992. Was not taking communion his choice? Did he know the unspoken rules? Was it spoken? She recalled others, one an unmaried woman with a child. Another elderly member of the charge, different congregation, recalled that her mom did not come to church because she would not be a spectacle, but she sent the kids. Her husband had left her with 6 or 7 kids and divorced her. As a divorcee, the minister would not let her have communion.
It is a journey this faith journey. It is for all faiths and all peoples.
DKS
SG wrote: I know that it
Posted on: 02/22/2012 16:58
I know that it means people were denied communion in their UCC congregations, whether people knew it or not, whetehr the powers that be knew it or not, whether anyone wants to acknowledge it or not.
Still happens. I heard of a woman with tatoos who was told to find another congregation by a United Church minister, recently. I know of a woman who was refused baptism because her mother wasn't a part of the congregation at the moment (too busy raising kids).
SG
Thank you, DKS, for your
Posted on: 02/22/2012 17:25
Thank you, DKS, for your honesty.
I know there are UCC churches I would be less than welcome in. I would know I am not "in obedience to His Law" as they understand it. I cannot say in those congregations what the clergy would do if I came forward, since I do not know. As an openly gay, and practicing person (practice makes perfect), would they refuse me? Would they cast a look that said,"how dare you" or "don't do this again"? Would they speak to me later alone?
A friend had trouble regarding divorce and that was in the past decade. She never said anything to anyone. She quit going forward and soon left the church that had been her church since childhood. She was unchurched. It makes you "a spectacle". It is marginalizing and degrading. The minister moved on and she returned.
I had my own journey regarding baptism. I, however, am not afraid to advocate for myself and others.
There is a young man I know who is an addict who has been told not to take communion as long as he is using.
No system is perfect that people are involved in, because people are not perfect.
Kimmio
I understand the symbolism. I
Posted on: 02/22/2012 18:25
I understand the symbolism. I don't understand the exclusivity/ exclusionism. Telling someone they can't participate--who is anyone really to say that another can't participate? Who is so "pure" that they can do that? isn't that like casting the first stone?
Mendalla
Kimmio wrote: I understand
Posted on: 02/22/2012 19:44
I understand the symbolism. I don't understand the exclusivity/ exclusionism. Telling someone they can't participate--who is anyone really to say that another can't participate? Who is so "pure" that they can do that? isn't that like casting the first stone?
Exactly. They are using access to communion/the church as a "big stick" to try to control people and that puts them on exactly the same footing as the people Jesus directed that famous line about casting stones to. In fact, communion should be part of bringing those marginalized folks (addicts, etc.) into the community of the church, not as a way to control and punish them.
Mendalla
airclean33
Hi Kimmio --Would this help,
Posted on: 02/22/2012 20:02
Hi Kimmio --Would this help, The BibleI find has the answer, to most you want to know.----
I do believe you must be carful, with this power.We are to try and help a brother .We all may get off the path.
Kimmio
I know that Jesus and the
Posted on: 02/22/2012 21:27
I know that Jesus and the disciples gathered for the Jewish Passover at the Last Supper, and I know that Jesus said to remember him when eating bread and drinking wine ...but do we know ( maybe clergy can answer?) that the Christian communion ritual itself that is was what was intended really, or is it something the Roman Church invented to hold power and determine for themselves "who is in and who is out"? Please excuse me, I didn't grow up with taking communion, so I am curious. It seems to me to be more of a power and status thing, unless everyone is invited. At the UCC congregation I go to, communion is optional, and I have never heard of anyone being turned away.
Could it not be just as significant to share a meal and "break bread" with those you care about and remember Jesus and be thankful? It seems to me the real point is whether or not you remember Jesus' sacrifice, and hold that in your heart, not whether or not you participate in the ritual.
DKS
SG wrote: Thank you, DKS,
Posted on: 02/22/2012 21:37
Thank you, DKS, for your honesty.
Thank you.
One of the reasons communion in the pews is valuable. we serve each other and one can pass the elements or not.
Frankly, as a pastor, it's none of my business. If someone doesn't feel they wish to receive communion, that is their business. I may notice it, but would not say anything. I practice and preach inclusiveness at the Table. I am saddened that my colleagues would practice otherwise. That's not my understanding of Jesus and what he invited us to do and be.
Good grief. I am saddened that someone would make a moral judgement on what is a medical issue.
seeler
I do not deny that these
Posted on: 02/22/2012 23:28
I do not deny that these incidents of exclusion happen - and happen in my denomination - not just historically but even today. I hang my head in shame.
I also am quite sure that they do not happen within my congregation, where a street person with his large and rather shaggy dog came forward for communion for quite some time.
In my former congregation that was small enough that everybody knew everybody, one man never took communion. I also know that he was periodically invited to by the minister and the elders. I don't know what his reasons might have been or if he ever expressed them. He attended church regularly, and his wife and daughter took communion. But if he felt excluded (and he never indicated that he did) it was his choice.
Witch
IN my faith we have a ritual
Posted on: 02/23/2012 16:38
IN my faith we have a ritual very much like communion called the feast. All are welcome to partake regardless
BetteTheRed
I would not belong to a
Posted on: 02/23/2012 17:43
I would not belong to a congregation that had anything other than a wide-open table.
I come from a Catholic family, and in the spirit of something, probably pure deviltry, I take communion when I take my relatives to Mass. (They're from overseas, so this is an infrequent occasion.)
SG
DKS, I can say I have never
Posted on: 02/23/2012 18:38
DKS, I can say I have never witnessed "communion in the pews" in practice in a UCC.
Because of DKS and seeler. I thought about the times when I have seen a desire for inclusion or proving the table was open regarding communion actually come out feeling like marginalization.
One elderly woman never took communion, a new minister arrived. Up front the open table stuff was said, people come forward orderly row by row...she is sitting... the minister nods at her... nothing... the minister motions to her... she sits... the minister repeats that the table is open... another person may not have came back, but with all the beauty and grace and cojones that 80+ years gives you she said "I seen ya the first couple times, I was trying not to make a spectacle of ya, but I don't take communion"
I, for a long time, avoided communion Sundays, because not going forward might be construed to be about my homosexuality. It was a barrier when I felt, on a purely personal (for me) level - not a theological stance for my opinion on others- that I did not want to take communion until I was baptized.
Some people have been spiritually abused and communion can be some what troublesome because of that.... and that you come up or stay seated in front of all means they stay home....
Is it common to not only say the table is open but invite, motion, urge, coax... regarding communion? (at what point is it marginalization and when is it peer pressure and bullying?)
Arminius
blackbelt wrote: Who can
Posted on: 02/23/2012 18:44
Who can receive communion?
Anyone who wants to: open table.
seeler
SG wrote: DKS, I can say I
Posted on: 02/23/2012 19:24
DKS, I can say I have never witnessed "communion in the pews" in practice in a UCC.
Because of DKS and seeler. I thought about the times when I have seen a desire for inclusion or proving the table was open regarding communion actually come out feeling like marginalization.
One elderly woman never took communion, a new minister arrived. Up front the open table stuff was said, people come forward orderly row by row...she is sitting... the minister nods at her... nothing... the minister motions to her... she sits... the minister repeats that the table is open... another person may not have came back, but with all the beauty and grace and cojones that 80+ years gives you she said "I seen ya the first couple times, I was trying not to make a spectacle of ya, but I don't take communion"
SG - in my congregation and in the one I formerly attended, we have one elder whose job is simply to watch for those who do not come forward for communion. Then she tries to catch their eye, or goes down to their pew with the elements. Sometimes it is a mobility issue, sometimes it is because they are holding a sleeping toddler - and they welcome communion being brought to them without their going forward. And sometimes they shake their heads to indicate that it is their choice not to participate.
We also have gluten free bread available for those who require it - and for some reason, my present church offers water as an alternative to grape juice.
I really don't know how we could make our table more open.
Mendalla
SG wrote: DKS, I can say I
Posted on: 02/23/2012 19:31
DKS, I can say I have never witnessed "communion in the pews" in practice in a UCC.
If he's referring to the practice of passing the bread and wine through the pews in trays instead of having people come up to receive it, that's how my family church did it at least until my family had all left (for various reasons). I was surprised the first time I saw it done the other way (at a special communion in a friend's United Church). Having people come up to receive is the norm at the United Churches I've been to in the last decade.
Mendalla
RichardBott
The invitation we use at St.
Posted on: 02/23/2012 20:37
The invitation we use at St. A/h goes,
"This isn't my table. This isn't St. Andrew's table. This isn't even table of The United Church of Canada's.
This is Christ's table.
Jesus ate with anyone and everyone who would eat with him. In the breaking of the bread they came to know him and he came to know them.
So... it doesn't matter where you're coming from or where you're going.
It doesn't matter if you're old or young or somewhere in between.
It doesn't matter if you're gay or straight, rich or poor, female or male, at the heights of joy or the depths of despair.
It doesn't even matter if you believe in him or not.
It doesn't matter.
This is Christ's table - and Christ welcomes you.
Come as *you* desire."
GordW
Mendalla wrote: SG
Posted on: 02/23/2012 21:28
DKS, I can say I have never witnessed "communion in the pews" in practice in a UCC.
If he's referring to the practice of passing the bread and wine through the pews in trays instead of having people come up to receive it, that's how my family church did it at least until my family had all left (for various reasons). I was surprised the first time I saw it done the other way (at a special communion in a friend's United Church). Having people come up to receive is the norm at the United Churches I've been to in the last decade.
Mendalla
It was the only method of serving I ever saw in my home congregation until I was a teen. And even then it remained the norm for several years. Some congregations roughly alternate between in the pews and coming forward. And even with coming forward some do intinction and some still use the individual cups, often because of health concerns (intinction is the worst for spreading germs than any other method of serving communion).
DKS
SG wrote: DKS, I can say I
Posted on: 02/23/2012 22:34
DKS, I can say I have never witnessed "communion in the pews" in practice in a UCC.
That was how it has been done since Union in 1925. The congregation I serve now made it clear the moment I arrived a dozen years ago that they wanted it to serve each other in the pews. I grew up with communion being served in that way. In fact, I would suggest that communion by going forward to the front is a bit of a recovered Methodist practice. Presbyterians and Congregationalists served each other in the pews.
DKS
seeler wrote: In my former
Posted on: 02/23/2012 22:36
In my former congregation that was small enough that everybody knew everybody, one man never took communion. I also know that he was periodically invited to by the minister and the elders. I don't know what his reasons might have been or if he ever expressed them. He attended church regularly, and his wife and daughter took communion. But if he felt excluded (and he never indicated that he did) it was his choice.
There was a Presbyterian heresy I encountered in my days in New Brunswick where people would never receive communion in their lives until their death bed. Then they would call the minister, who would hear their confession, give communion and they would die happy.