Or maybe they are just ignorant (needing more basic education - including the ability to read, think, make intelligent behavior choices?)

Not only can it endanger troops but it gives Christianity a bad rap and does not bring Glory to God

i guess anybody can call themselves Christian these days

There is a difference, from my perspective, waterfall.

 

The cultural centre and mosque that is being proposed a few blocks away from where the Twin Towers stood, is being designed as a place for people to be in community with their neighbours. A place where people can learn about what it means to be Muslim.

 

Pastor Jones' actions have no community mind. No redemption. No willingness to "Love your neighbour as you love yourself."

 

There are a number of us at St.A/H who are listening to the Qur'an online, and have been reading an English translation over the past month. There are parts of it that a full of beauty and wonder, and there are parts of it that make my eyebrows go up... just like my reading of our own scriptures.

 

Christ's peace - r

some Christians are stupid, just like some aetheists, some muslims and some whatevers.

 

People get dogmatic and dug in over petty issues and the rhetoric just increases.

 

Cooler heads should prevail but misinformation and fear runs amoke in any sort of group. 

 

What surprises is that more level headed moderate folks dont' get the press coverage to help cool the fire.  The press, of all stripes, just loves controversy, it sells papers, ads......  SO they just keep fanning away and the nuts keep speaking.

 

Sad sad sad

 Folks - what would be an appropriate counter protest?

 

Right now, I have the image of a pile of Qur'an burning - and I think about what it would mean to me if I saw a photo a symbol of something absolutely vital to me being destroyed.

 

What is the counter picture that we can offer our Muslim neighbours and the world?

 

We often hear calls for 'moderate' Muslims to speak out against actions of radicals in their tradition.

 

Well... many of us who wander this forum are the 'moderates' of our faith tradition.

Letter writing to our local and national papers?

Posting our disgust at Pastor Jones' actions through social media?

 

How about using this moment as a "call to community" - contacting the Muslim communities in our area to celebrate our being neighbours?

 

I don't know what. But I know that we have to figure out how to send as clear a message as Pastor Jones' will be sending - in the opposite direction.

 

Christ's peace - r

Burn the flippin' book...give me a match.Its about time someone stood up for Christians. Its time for  another Crusade. Read about the treatment  of Christians in other parts of the world.

BareEye

 BareEye - so burning the sacred text of another's faith is "standing up for Christianity"?

 

Really?

 

An evangelical scholar from Mars Hill Church would disagree with you, BareEye. (I can't believe I'm posting something from Fox News, but you might want to check out this link: www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/09/03/rev-john-rankin-pastor-terry-jones-dove-world-outreach-center-burning-koran/ )

Rev. Rankin has based his challenge of Pastor Jones' action out of a shared view of Christian scripture.

 

My questions of Pastor Jones would be quite different - but would come to the same end - what Pastor Jones wishes to do  is not an act that is worthy of Christ's name.

 

Christ's peace - r

Hey dipshits!!!

We Christians are supposed to be the good guys! Thus we are obliged to set the example.

My studies of the Qu'ran tell me that the actions of Islamic extremists have little - if anything at all - to do with the Qu'ran. Just as your rantings have nothing to do with the teachings of Christ.

Burning the Qu'ran just gives Extremist hatemongers more ammunition to attack the west and persuade others off the fence. While nothing we can do or say will appease the hatemongers, we shouldn't make it easier for them to recruit others.

Thanks to Rev Steve for the website I have just emailed them with my opinion it is a little more sedate than what Judd said.

 Great thinking out loud, waterfall!

 

I'll start at the end question - I want to be careful to say that I'm not studying the Qur'an, I'm reading it. For me, study would be done under the guidance of someone of the faith tradition. It would be wonderful to have that opportunity some day! As a Christian reading an English translation of the Qur'an, I can't see anything that makes the act of apology "against the grain".

 

Waterfall - the question for me would be what is it that we would be hoping an apology would say? Can I really apologize for Pastor Jones' actions... or can I say, "What I believe he is doing is wrong?" I believe that the majority of the world's Muslims are deeply saddened and regret the actions of the radicals in their tradition, but I'm not sure that apology makes sense to me.

 

Someone who knows better can correct me on this - but I have, in the dim recesses of my mind, a memory of the United Church of Canada / Muslim dialog discussing the United Church of Canada's apologies to the people of the First Nations. I don't know about the other Christian traditions. 

 

Waterfall - I'm not sure why we would expect Muslim scholars to settle this hornet's nest. This one is of our making. Pastor Jones is under that wide umbrella that takes the name Christian. *wry smile* This is our problem.

 

About the other apology questions - ummm... I'm running out of time! I'll try to get back later.

 

Christ's peace - r

airclean, sometimes we have to do MORE than pray. We have to act.. I like Richard's post.

In the light of what Richard Bott wrote, I correct myself. I read the Qu'ran and made my conclusions based on these readings.

Hmmm - so you say you'd like a counter image?  And this idiocy comes from the  "Dove World Outreach Center"?  How about releasing a whole flock of doves carrying miniature copies of the Qur'an to distribute randomly throughout the country?

Why is when some "Christians" hear something that they do not agree with, the first thing they do is call the people names. Is it a control thing? Or have they lost the ability to DEBATE.

BareEye

Hi- crazyheart - This may be true . But it would be better to start with prayer. I have found that if I stared many things in life on my knees, it is much easyer to get up an walk through it.I also Believe Man is never so close to God , As when He is in Prayer. This is a church of God christians like you and me . Where else should we tell them to go? airclean33

 

I agree with your assesment of those people.

 

It's unfortunate that they seem to have so much sway

darn, where is that irony meter when you need it????

An interesting addition to this discussion:

 

 CBC article: "U.S. Faith Leaders Urge Tolerance of Muslims"

www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/09/07/inter-faith007.html

 

 

 

They aren't Christians.

I've been thinking a lot aboaut this too ... very troubling.  This morning I heard an amazing interview on CBC The Current - one of the women was from a group of families of 9/11 victims - she was eloquent and impassioned that hateful acts must somehow be limited and not made into media celebrated false causes.  Her group is http://www.peacefultomorrows.org/

 

I'm thinking - hoping?? - that similar action to Pastor Jones if taken here would be identified under the hate laws.  I'm guessing there is no such legislation in the US, but have no idea.

 

And I'm wondering if there are Christians who are mounting any sort of response ... haven't heard of that so far.   Of course, in the south, such politics are very heated and others may not feel free to dissent, which is so sad to me.  The "for me or agin me" stance seems most common, in my limited experiences in the south.    And fueled by media in  pre-election furor mode.  

 

Anybody heard of the Angel Action?  They are pretty amazing in how they've taken on Fred Phelps & his horrid troop of protesters. 

I did also just locate this - re national leaders meeting & local response of others. 

http://hosted2.ap.org/CAVAN/c235f41cace842f4b560c3d81dbaa619/Article_2010-09-07-Quran-Burning/id-ef838a98e0a84b9c9ef8a22e54082f64

 

Sounds like it has powder keg potential in other countries ... I am worried.

Excellent articles all.

 

Being a Muslim in north america can be difficult because of all the conflicting forces therein. If you do not actively speak out against radicalism, you are deemed a terrorist, if you do anything in good representation of Islam, it seems the world doesn't want to see it.  If you reach out to your neighbour, you can never be certain if they will embrace you as a fellow human, or recoil in fear and hatred.

 

I'm glad there are Jewish organizations who see Muslims today going through what they have gone through, and are reaching out to embrace their brothers and sisters in faith, and in humanity.  Everytime I hear some bigot ranting about how Qur'ans need to be burnt, and how the "Victory mosque is blah blah blah" it always heartens me to know that out there is a support network of progressive, unitive, and accepting people of all faith traditions, lack of faith traditions, political ideology, race, gender, and sexual orientation.

 

Thank God for the level heads in the world, and may God sooth the hearts of those who seek to use violence to promote their own bigotted views (that includes muslims who feel the need to send death threats).

 

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan Mubarak

-Omni

Fundamentally ignorant? 

 

Amen. You took the words right out of my keyboard!

Well thanks to the media focusing on a little church of about 50 people and their stupid attempts for justice, we are being sidetracked from the real issue at hand.

 

And that, (I hope I'm wrong)  may be that in order to keep the troops in Afghanistan the fear must be sustained.