I assume - because they get points for each soul they save and thereby earn a better seat in heaven.

Hi crazyheart:

As James said, because they gain merits for their entry to heaven for every soul they save.

Joking aside, I think many of them are mystics, and have been initiated into mystical experience and indoctrinated into a belief system at the same time, and made to believe that their mystical experience is the divine confirmation of their doctrine. They actually believe that, by giving them the mystical experience, God or Christ has told them that their belief system is absolutely valid and true, and they feel moved to push their doctrinal truth as well as the mystical experience they believe goes with it.

I sympathize with the fundies, and I am somewhat like them. I, too, feel moved to spread mystical experience, but I do it without spreading doctrines.

Pickle

I agree with you that it is their belief. Somehow I think they mean well or their intentions are good. I don't come down too hard on them! In the New T. Jesus does speak a lot about hell and we have our modern interpretations about what he may have meant.

Perhaps they do it because there is more security the greater the numbers that make the same claim.  If too many others think differently then their faith is put into question.

Shalom

Mate

I think there are a great many who sincerely believe they are following the wishes of Jesus to go out and minister and witness.

I doubt they see that they might not be wanted.  I think many , as we see here, cannot fathom that you could have a different relationship with God.  They truely "know" that they have the correct relationship and they are trying to share.

I do think they mean well to a point.  Where they seem to fall right off a cliff is accepting any differences and a lack of understanding in different beliefs.

I truely dislilke the "  true christian"  talk that rolls around.

Hello everyone:

I, as a mystic, know how powerfully compelling mystical experience can be. And if such an experience is regarded as God's endorsement of one's belief system, then it tends to make one into a zealous missionary of that system.

This is the equivalent of Moses' "burning bush," or of God handing over the Ten Commandments! Powerful stuff! No wonder these mystical fundamentalists have such evangelical zeal: they feel they have been appointed by God!

I, however, cannot speak for them. I can only say what I think. I wish one of them would speak up!

Evangelical fundamentalist mystics, where are you?

Hi crazyheart,

Interesting observation.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I think arrogance is a danger all Christians, of every stripe, must be mindful of. We all think we have 'the right answer' and our way is best. This is Christendom thinking, that we have the means to rule the world, in our image. The humility of Christ is something we all need to be constantly reminded of.

Sounds like World of Warcraft.  I imagine someone who knows more about WoW could take the analogy further.

I don't want to save anyones soul and have never attempted to. All I have ever done is share my experience and quoted scripture that aligns with it. It's God's doing in the saving department and I am not God!!

As someone else has said, I just want to share the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. The same as I would share a cure for Cancer with the world, for no money, if I found it.

As for those who are offended, I would say get over it.

I used to feel that way when people would "seem" to imply that I was not a Christian because my ways didn't coincide with theirs but as my faith grew it does not bother me.

I'm actually excited to see that someone is so interested to share with me and have a desire for me to know Jesus. That is what we are called to do.

I have to say that I am somewhat disappointed when I feel they don't recognize my faith but I figure that is my problem and I will work harder on shedding my light.

But I am not offended in any way as I have been given total assurance of my salvation and the love of my Lord God Jesus.

Be Blessed,

IB

Or they do it because they know their church will be better able to buy that new Infinity for the pastor's four-car garage.

LL&P

Spock

Seriously? Do you honestly think that pastors make that kind of money, or are you just joking?

I didn't know God's secret name was Scotty!

Anyway

"Beam me up"

Be Blessed,

IB

I am very impressed with what you say here.

You must have confidence & happiness in your life to accept a message like that & not feel offended in the least.

I personally don't think a message of judgement of any kind will bring a closer understanding of God's message of love.

I beleive in the message of personal relationship with God through Jesus the Christ.

This is a message of love first & foremost.

After this relationship becomes close to the degree that biblical truth can be interpreted in a cooperative way within this relationship.

The judgement aspect of things become more clear & not as what many may think it actually is, or how judgement pertains to the indevidual, & how it is carried out.

God doesn't want people to come to Him out of fear, He wants His love to be revieled in the fullest way, so that we can fall in love with Him.

Once His true measure of love is reveiled, it is very very hard not to love Him back.

This term "saved" to me doesn't mean saved from hell. Saved to me, means saved from deception.

Bolt

You raise a great point. What good is the message of personal relationship with God unless it is established within the indevidual? How can one see this love relationship between God & man with out it being established within the indevidual by God Himself?

What I mean by this is, how are people to know it unless people experience it for themselves?

The closest thing we do have are those who have actually experienced it.

And the only true testimony that can be seen as most effective is when one knows a person who has experienced such a revelation, & that they know this person on a level that will enable a trust between them, & a fondness between them where this experience becomes better understood, & motives of this person who has this revelation is of love & not self serving in any way, & can truthfully be acceptable to those who know him or her who has this revelation.

This is why it is harder to minister to people here as there is no face, no eye contact, & most of all no real close & personal relationship between these pages of a disscussion forum.

It would be alot easier to establish this message of personal relationship if those who hear this message knew the one who delivers it, personally.

Bolt

Wow! I believe I answered your question before I saw it!

Seriously, Like what a few here have already said, It has eveything to do with the joy I've found through this new experience of a deep & personal relationship that was established in my case.

Some my take this proclamation as arrogant, that I think I'm above others to God because of this. but that is so far from the truth.

And those who actually believe this proclimation as arrogance is believing in the one who decieves, as he wants nothing but to destroy anything or anyone that God loves, & that my friend is everyone.

Bolt

Religions, even the ones who now think of themselves as "liberal" and "not fundy", had some hand in creating this.  

They taught that "Onward Christian Soldiers" stuff, wage war on evil, and that it was your work to save souls... after all souls did not belong to people they were God's and you had to do God's work..... Your salvation is not for you, it is for God... If I love God I will get your soul to Him pronto..... Once I get you, you go get more....

Or... if I love you I want you to be saved from Hell. I don't want you to burn so I try to make you turn.... you have to accept Jesus(the right way) to save your sinful soul (all people are born sinful and depraved or the devil tempts 'em) to save your sinful soul from hell fire and brimstone....

So, they do it for many reasons and they are each reasons that church and religious leaders taught them was Christian, even those denominations we now think of as liberal even.

I work with the sick and dying and I have encountered people that do not believe in God who inevitably realize they do not have much time left on this earth. I have witnessed extreme fear and anxiety from some of these people and have suggested that God may provide the answer to give them peace. Many have given permission to have pastoral care come and talk with them. I have three ladies on my floor who claimed to be atheist and who now look forward to their pastoral visits. In each one of them I can see that a calm has overtaken the anxiety. While giving care they often ask questions about God now. Whether they are just curious, have come to believe or are on the brink of believing, that is their journey but I am always amazed at how little some are aware of God's power to bring peace into our lives.

Now here's my question, "When should one speak up about God's message?" or should we just hope that people come to God on their own? Is it more responsible to tell others or more irresponsible to not share this information? How does one ensure that we are not intruding in someone elses life when they have run out of answers?

I'm glad you posted this so I could clarify!

I call no "son of man" or woman for that matter, enemy. EVER! Even if he or she has a gun pointed to my head!

You may say this is a statement that one would have to prove someday to actually be believed, & I understand where one would be sceptical of what I say in this regard.

This is why I will not accept offence in my heart. People are not the enemy, satan & his minions are.

When someone dissagrees with me I cirtainly don't see them as an enemy.

Can people be influenced by the enemy?  This is a whole other thread that I would rather not get involved in honestly.

Just as God can influence if the door is opened for Him, so can the agents of darkness influence if the door is opened for them.

Bolt

bolt

No one wants to see you leave.  In spite of differences of opinion you do add positively to the discussion.

There is a good deal of what you say that I agree with but obviously not everything.

That being said I am thinking about the ancient church father who said, with great wisdom, "Evangelize yes,  But with words only if necessary."  I will give you an example.  For many years I was a teacher and principal in elementary schools.  I've had on numerouse occasions people say to me "You run a Christian school don't you?"  Now in thirty years in education I have never mentioned my faith though I have done many services in both the United Church and the Anglican Church.  Many times these comments came from folks who were totally unaware of my church activities.

Since I was working in a public school system I was not able to openly make comments nor would I have done so anyway.  

I believe that if one has something to offer others will see it and ask.  One does not have to "button hole" people or wear a sign declaring their faith.  Living it says far more than words ever will.

Have I been asked about my faith?  The answer is yes.  Then I explain my faith and leave it at that.

Shalom

Mate